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Catholics 'more likely to back state economic intervention'

http://www.darkangels.net/showthread...&p=222#post222

Quote:

THEIR WORK ethic appears to be alive and well but Protestants are less likely than others to back notions of sharing the benefits.

A new European Central Bank study has also found that Catholics are more likely to favour sharing wealth and to support government intervention in the economy than are Protestants.

Based on data from Swiss cantons of Fribourg (Catholic) and Vaud (Protestant), the study found support for early 20th century German sociologist Max Weber’s theories about the Protestant work ethic.

It also concluded that Weber’s theories apply more widely than thought, including in the choice of political institutions and in explaining income inequality.

In his book The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, published in 1904, Weber argued that Protestants were more likely to regard hard work as a way to salvation and that this encouraged the accumulation of wealth.

He noted the post-Reformation shift of Europe’s economic centre away from Catholic countries such as France, Spain and Italy, toward Protestant countries such as the Netherlands, England, Scotland and Germany.

He also noted that societies which had more Protestants had a more highly developed capitalist economy and that, in societies with different religions, the most successful business leaders were Protestant.

Weber also argued that Catholicism impeded the development of capitalism in the West, as did Confucianism and Buddhism in the East.

In their study published on the ECB website at the weekend but not officially endorsed by it, researchers Christoph Batzen and Frank Betz, said they found that “Protestant municipalities exhibit, clearly, higher income inequality.”

They also found that “relative to Roman Catholicism, Reformed Protestantism has curbed preferences for redistribution and for government intervention in the economy.”

Batzen and Betz concluded that Weber’s work better explained economic development than that of Karl Marx.

“Religion is not just, as Karl Marx would have us believe, ‘People’s Opium’, but can, by its own force, significantly change people’s preferences,” they found.

Meanwhile last week the Vatican’s Council for Justice and Peace called for “a kind of central world bank” to discipline markets.

In a statement last Friday, following a meeting in Brussels, EU Catholic bishops said the causes of the current financial crisis were structural and mainly rooted in the short-term and very often electorally-motivated political choices.

“These choices often reflect individual behaviour of credit-financed consumerism . . . populism . . . [and] moral relativism,” they said.

It does explain a lot. Catholics and countries where Catholicism is the prevalent religion are more socialist leaning countries while Protestant countries where their religion is the dominate force do tend to have different values.

A lot of that probably has something to do with the fact that Catholicism isn't quite as seriously taken as it used to be. I see them kinda trying to keep up with the times and evolving their message in order to stay relevant.

Protestantism seems to want to occify more than Catholicism.

I would also say it would greatly depend on what protestant churches we're talking about in what countries. The Social Gospel movement fought hard to have programs that helped the poor and needy, and Canada's NDP was founded by a United minister. The United Church also fights for LGBTQ rights and the right to abortion. Salvation Army is also big on social justice but they're not as common or quite as influential on the national level.

But I get it especially when it comes to the religious right in the states.

The study is not talking about protestant organizations with a specific goal; it's talking about the Protestant mindset as a whole.

And Ashley, Catholicism isn't as seriously taken as it used to be? You gotta get out of the states more.

WOW!

Now we only need a study to tell us if Naruto fans give more than Dragonball fans.

Think Team Edward is more likely to back socialist policies than Team Jacob?

This is important stuff.

Yeah, fuck Max Weber, what the hell does he know.

I bet Trekkies are more likely to be Democrats and Starwars geeks are more likely to be Republicans!

Who would win in a fight Batman or Wolverine?

Your answer may tell you if you're a COMMUNIST!

Did you like Indiana Jones 4? Are you a Furry? Do you believe in Elves?

Good news! Your made-up bullshit informs your political worldview.

Aren't humans fun?

Well, unless you're drunk, there goes my respect for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 683810)

Yeah, but a lot of what I'm talking about is after Weber's time. There are far more denominations now than there was before and there is more variety. It does depend on what Protestants you're talking to in what country, and I don't think there's a given Protestant mindset; Catholics are generally united on major issues whereas Protestants don't agree on a whole lot anymore.

Which just goes back to the individualist mentality deeply rooted in Protestantism. Doesn't matter how much time passes, if you haven't had a radical break from the hermeneutics of the society you grew up in, you're still going to interpret the world by their values. It's not about being observant. In this sense, most latin american atheists will admit that we're catholic atheists.

That's the thing, I don't think its even fair to say Protestantism has a deeply rooted sense of individualism, different denominations are too different to really make a connection.

Catholics at least have one single guy telling them what they believe, Protestants have several thousand guys and many of them say completely opposite things. Catholics are more united on the issue than Protestants because Protestants are too different from each other to agree as one. Pat Robertson is pretty different from Tommy Douglas, around the world religion adapts differently. This survey was European, I'd be curious as to what the results would be elsewhere.

And Dom Helder Camara is a lot different than Ratzinger. Doesn't mean they don't share the same hermeneutic background.

At least they are still both Catholic, you can say from Robertson and Douglas than they can trace their church's roots to hundreds of years ago in Europe, but hundreds of years in North America with little communication between causes huge rifts between denominations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 683822)

Well, unless you're drunk, there goes my respect for you.

I don't know...I think Sugar Tits has a point, despite his comments looking like blatant trollery.

If the Catholics are so great and awesome, then why don't they just back proper sex ed in the school systems? Instead they teach ignorance/abstinence and blame 'sin' for teen pregnancy and STDs....much like Texas...

This is just another thread started so that Sternn can point to something and pretend that his made up shit is better than the 'proddies' made up shit.

Actually, there's a good point to that. Vaud is overwhelmingly Calvinist in its Protestant population. It would be far more apt to say "Catholics are more likely than Calvinists".

There's a point to what? I'm saying there is no point.

I mean there's a point to you saying its just a "catholics are better than protestants" motivation.

Oh, okay. I misread the intent behind it.

If Sternn took over this article like that, then you'd have a reason to talk about 'intent' but right now you're all just complaining about data
Nowhere in the data id it say catholics are better than protestants. Hell, for a conservative this article means good news for their beliefs, but you're all being pompous (or in the case of Despanan, childish) because.... seriously, because what, you want your hermeneutic background to also correlate with state intervention? I really don't understand you people.

Yeah, I as a Buddhist really want my socialist protestant background to correlate with state intervention. Nevermind that I'm actually from a left leaning country where Protestantism had a huge influence on our socialism, I secretly need validation from European Calvinists as well.

Dude in his commentary linked it to Catholics being socialists, the conversation kinda moved beyond state intervention after that if you weren't paying attention.

And dude is sort of known for being an asshat towards countries, particularly one that has a big Protestant population that is also kinda phobic of socialism, what was that country's name...anyway, he's known to take digs when he can with anything.

Doesn't change the findings of the study. The simple fact is, Catholic upbringing makes it easy to be in favor of state intervention, which means that it's easier for catholic countries to be socialist or facsist. Meanwhile protestant countries are more individualistic, thus it's easier for them to adopt either capitalism or social welfarism.
Do you wanna deny these facts because you don't like Sternn or do you wanna, you know, maybe I don't know, explore the implications of this study and the theories of Max Weber, one of the most impacting thinkers of the 19th century outside of Marx and Freud?

The insane amount of Alcohol in my blood has NOTHING to do with awesome commentary on this GRIPPING political revelation. I'm hurt Jill...well, I would be except I think that makes at least 20 times you've revoke your respect for me, and we all know you'll come crawling back like a vegan after their grist taste of B-dubs.

But I digress:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 683857)

Childish? I'll have you know that I like Vash the Stampede much more then Ruoni Kenshin. Folks who do, like me, tend to, on average, be LESS childish than those kenshin loving motherfuckers. This harkens back to the fact that Trigun asks questions like: "what does it mean to be human?" and "What happens when you are a sentient nuclear reactor in human form with a bigassed gun for an arm, who under no circumstances will kill people?" while "Samurai X" just says "Oro" a bunch of times, and totally wrecks a motherfucker's day with a sword with no edge on it (while, under no circumstances killing people)

But if I may be serious for a moment: while I'm sure one's religion informs one's political views (which is a major reason why I argue so vehemently againts religion), whether you're a Catholic or a Protestant, you believe in a magical dying-and-coming-back zombie Jew and that's fucking stupid no matter how it leads you to vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan (Post 683861)

whether you're a Catholic or a Protestant, you believe in a magical dying-and-coming-back zombie Jew and that's fucking stupid no matter how it leads you to vote.

Spoken like a true American, believing he's a self-made man. OH no, society didn't affect how I socially developed, that's nonsense. Religion is much more than that. Were you raised with the idea that you must provide for the poor because it is the right thing to do regardless of what they do with the aid you give them, or were you raised to think that you should help them help themselves?