Animal Rights
 

Anyone feel like arguing animal rights?

Alrighty then, I'll start us off.

What importance does the human race have that gives us the responsibility to needlessly enslave and inflict a life time of torture on non-human animals and why?

Well, not all types of ownership are necessarily abusive.

Factory Farming is in my opinion responsible for most of the abuse of animals. When you have people living in cities buying their food that don't raise their own, the demand is high and the profits are good.

The more meat on the bone, the more the profit.

That's why in many factory farms the animals are bred to be huge, and fed hormones with their food. It gets to the point that their joints can't even handle it. They are also given antibiotics all the time to keep them from getting sick from the conditions they are forced to live in.

Then, we ingest it secondhand.

It's a really loaded subject for some people. I used to be a vegan because of the way that animals are treated (I fell off the truck). I don't think that it is necessarily wrong to take the life of an animal but I think it is wrong to purposefully inflict any more pain upon that animal than needs be.

I think it's disrespectful to Life to treat it so cheaply.

There isn't any way to feed meet to the public on such a grand scale without being cruel to the animals farmed.

It's a loaded subject in general. It should be loaded for everyone, but people don't tend to know or at least comprehend the truth behind their food. And for the most part they just don't want to: "Oh, don't tell me, you'll put me off my food!" Such a humane way to treat knowledge isn't it?

What's the difference between taking a human life and a farm animal life? Do you believe that it's more ethical to take the life of a pig over a dog?

The last time I checked, the FDA wa saying that Americans eat about 3 times as much meat as is necessary to our health.

I think that human life is different than animal life. I think life in and of itself is sacred. I also think that humans are on a completely different mental level than animals, and so even though that makes our life *worth* more, it also makes us more responsible for the ways in which we live.

And yes, I think there is essentially no difference between the value of a dog's life or a pig's life. They are both animals. We as human being have different uses for them, which is why we treat them differently and very often, emotionally view them differently. I think we shouldn't let that get in the way of recognizing the fact that an animal is an animal, and if it's wrong to cage dogs and brutally beat them then it's also wrong to do that to a pig - or a chicken :(

I think that if we consider ourselves the 'stewards' of the earth then we should act more like stewards, and not brutish curs.

Why, how about yourself?

Not sure I've got the question there.

If you believe in life as 'sacred' in a spiritual sense, then there's not much I can say that'd convince you otherwise.

But still, think about humans for a second. "We"? Are we one thing? Equal? No, sir. Many humans are born with mental and physical dissabilities, a lot of the time making them far inferior to non-humans. So on an individual level, some humans are pretty much the smartest known creature on Earth. But some are far inferior to individuals of other species.

This argument is only valid though if you don't believe that human DNA in itself is sacred in a metaphysical sense. In which case, it doesn't matter how retarded you are, how deformed, you are individually equal to the most intelligent human, despite being (situationally) far inferior to an individual gorilla or dog or bunny rabbit.

Yes and no.

Spiritually, I believe every type of life is Sacred, and everything on earth. There is beauty anywhere you choose to see it, and ugliness as well. I have respect for animals as my neighbors on this planet. They breathe the same air I do. They belong here, too.

On a more practical level, there has to be a balance to everything. If you fuck around with the environment too much, you are going to reap what you sow. If we persist in mistreating our environment then I believe future generations are not only going to have a lot to try and fix, but it will probably be harder for them to accomplish with the diminished sense of global responsibility that they inhereit.

I choose not to debate which humans or which animals are the most superior.

Yes, I believe humans are 'superior' than animals, but only because as a people we have a sense of right and wrong - no matter how skewed it may sometimes seem.

Not a very scientific definition if that's what you're looking for, because that - I don't have.

The question was - what are the answers to your own questions? What do you think?

The difference between a human life and a farm animal life is just that between a dog and a fish. There is no issue of significance.

Ethically it's not better to take the life of a pig than a dog.

See, I just can't agree with the 'as a people' reasoning. The fact is, not all human beings are capable of proper development of our sense of right and wrong. So it just doesn't fit. It's speciesist (that's a real word, people).

Yup, and that's where the issue gets divided.

I think that it also has a bit to do with your spiritual beliefs.

If you believe that man is no different than animals then it either...

a) makes sense to eat meat because that's what animals do, too

or

b) doesn't make sense to eat meat because you're an 'animal' too.

If you have an Earth-centered religion, you may or may not believe that it's okay to eat meat but you will probably believe that life has a sacred element to it.

If you are a Creationist, then it would make sense to believe that if you are going to eat meat then it should be done in a humane way, since animals are Created Beings as well as much as you are.

You've painted a very black and white picture there (though very appropriate for a goth site, not at all for an ethical debate).

I'm atheist. I don't believe in religion, let alone anything earth-centred, and I don't believe in creationism.

Believing that man is no different from other animals is illogical. The issue is the common belief that humans are entitled to more because of...their DNA, I suppose.

Birds are dumb cause small bird brains
But so are kids and old people
Some birds talk, most others sing
I don't see you eating a talking bird

Pigs smell bad and roll in poo
But so do kids and elderly
I don't see you chop off an old man's feet
Put them in a maison jar and picle them

No chowder for you, cause clams have feelings too
Actually they don't have central nervousness
No Manhattan style, clams have the right to smile

Come to think about it they don't have a face

They have no face, no place for ears
There's no clam eyes to cry clam tears
No spinal cord, they must get boder
Might as well just put them out of misery

I don't believe it's selfish to eat defenceless shellfish
No chowder for you clams have feelings too
It could happen to you clams have feelings too
I don't think they do, clams have feelings too

im sorry...that was daft and immature.continue your debate, ignore me..

Meh. People believe what they are going to believe. I've stated my beliefs. I don't feel the need to try and convince anyone that mine are right.

The Bible states that God put animals there for man to use, and Adam ate animals.

So if your going at it from a religious stand point, most all religions tell that men were made to eat animals. Some religions are more specific on which animals, but most all say its a good thing (with the exception of some Buddahists).

If you believe animals shouldn't be killed for meat, then you go against a majority of the population worldwides' religious beliefs.

Aside from that, people take away animal habitats for land use. Your sitting in a house built on some animals home, I'm sure the animals living there were displace and/or killed. Your also probably wearing trainers/athletic shoes or boots of somesort, also made from animals. If you are wearing something 'natural', then you can bet the facotry that made them, unless they were hand woven from reeds by hippies living in a nature preserve, then animals in someway were killed and displaced as well.

I could go on for hours about how people who complain about animal rights are quite happily violating a million different animals in different ways they never thought of, but you get the idea.

Tis the way things work. Nature, Darwinism, survival of the fittess. I like fish. Use to have a few big coral reef tanks. Also used to dive and catch pretty fish in various places. Of course nothing as heartbreaking as watching a beautiful tang your chasing through the reef get gobbled by a waiting eel, or shark, or one of a million other predators, but hey, thats life.

My point being is if you saved all those trout that PeTA complains about during fishing tourneys, they will still die horrible deaths being eaten by bears, or some other predator. It happens. Man is just another link in the food chain.

OF course if your arguement is more about keeping pets, well, I know many people who have pets, who love them, but treat them like crap. Not on purpose, but because they are just not equipt to deal with them. Like people in apartments with big dogs. Or people in apartments with 5 cats. Or people who buy fish, and don't know how to properly maintain the tank so the fish die in a year.

Doesn't mean we need to ban all pet stores. People are people, and do their best, but shit happens. Life goes on.

I'm not for tourturing animals or abusing them, but most people don't realise they themselves do it without knowing sometimes. The same people who bitch at other people who inadvertantly hurt other animals.

Bottom line is if everyone works to do what they feel is right, and treat animals as humanely as possible, even then various abuses will still occur, but its the best that can be expected in an imperfect world.

And in the end, the animals will probably be just as good, if not better, than they would have been without human interference.

Um, one minor thing - the first time the flesh or skins of animals was used by Adam and Eve was after the Fall. They ate of the fruit of the trees before that.

I'm not really gonna argue anything... but uhh

I thought people might find this interesting...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4748292.stm

Meh, men are animals, sometimes better because of our intellect, but also the most vicious of all because of it

Debatable; for instance, 9 kg of feed per 1 kg of beef.

The land used for feed could be used for other crops that could sustain necessary protein. Not suggesting vegetarian diet so much as less meat-based diet.

But let's be clear folks..

If I was on a plane with Disfunction, and we crashed in the snowy yet forbidden mountains;

I would Eat him if he was the last possible source of Food.

:D

*sharpens knives*

I suppose that now is the appropriate time that I'm honestly more comfortable with the consumption of human flesh than the consumption of animal meat?

Oh heck, how should I know? I'd just savour one over the other.