[Loy]

I'd go back further and say "without the Velvet Underground there'd be no punk".

Rancid? Ewww....sorry, but they're the epitome of everything that made the little punk kids I knew drop out of the scene-giving something that was fun, free, and easy a bunch of rules to follow. "If you're really punk, you'd do this and this and blah blah blah.....", and thus why I maintain that the only musical movement that even comes close to what punk rock did is hip-hop.

As for best hardcore groups, here's my 2 cents-

Black Flag-OK, so once Rollins joined the band, they slid into a downward spiral of vapidity. Still, "Damaged" is one of the greatest albums ever....and come to think of it, there are a few moments on the Rollins albums that still justify buying them. However, if you wanna know why they were the shit and don't have a wayback machine that'll take you to see them live, get "Damaged" and "The First Four Years".

Circle Jerks-my favorite band to see live, these guys just kicked out the jams, and even when they got older, STILL fucking rocked the house. To Get-"Group Sex", "Golden Shower Of Hits", "Wild In The Streets", "VI"

Agnostic Front-Wanna talk angry? Yep, these guys had pissed-offness down to a T, and it bled through their music in a way that made it understandable, even if their best stuff came out whilst they were still nazis. "Victim In Pain", "Cause For Alarm", "And Justice For....", "Live At CBGBs"

The Adolescents-formed by the guitarist of Christian Death after getting sick of Rozz Williams whiny pretensions, the Adolescents were one of the few punk bands that you could play in any club and it still matched up. Get-"The Adolescents", "Bratz In Battallions", "Balboa Fun Zone"

Minor Threat-You knwo who they are-the band Ian MacKaye was in before he started this little group called Fugazi. Doesn't matter, though, "Out Of Step" is the "White Album" of the hardcore scene. Get-"Complete Discography"

Bad Brains-So even though the great majority of their album output wavers from excreable to horrid, they were fucking awesome live. The fact that they had no qualms tossing out the reggae with the speed makes their music that much more powerful (unlike when the Clash did it and ended up sounding worse than they normally did). And Even though most of their albums suck, there ARE two that are neccesary for every music collection. Get-"Rock For Light", "I Against I"

Blood Brothers-Seattle Screeching Sonic Test, the Blood Brothers combine passion, intelligence, and power in a way that'll either bowl you over or scare the living shit out of you. Even though hardcore is dead, these guys are happily pounding the nails in the coffin in a rythm that'll make you dance into the future gleefully. Get-"This Adultery Is Ripe", "March On Electric Children", "Burn, Piano Island Burn!", "Crimes"