[Asurai]

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

Murder, on the other hand, is "to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice" (I hope we can agree on Webster's as a reliable dictionary).

Correct, although I have a slight quibble with the word 'unlawfully' in that definition. It would imply that (to use the same example that I'm fond of) Germans' killing Jews wasn't murder, since it was legal in Germany at the time.

Now, I went back and found this quote from you: "But that's not what I meant by 'morality is higher than government.' I merely meant that government decree has no influence upon what is good and what is evil."

If government decrees have no influence on morality, and the definition of murder relies largely on its illegality, then you might want to revise your condemnation of murder as always being evil.

Again, I point out that in Nazi Germany it was legal to kill Jews, but I think that everyone here would still call the act itself 'murder.'

In feudal Japan, a samurai had the authority to kill any peasant at any time for any reason, without fear of consequences -- but if a samurai went and decapitated a farmer for not bowing low enough, I'm sure that we would all consider that murder, even though it was legally allowed.

Or, to use a more PC example, most of the early American colonists saw nothing wrong with attacking Indians, and it was mostly legal, but I'm sure that we would, despite the legality, call it 'murder' if a group of settlers crept into a village, slaughtered a few children, and snuck away.

In Saddam's Iraq, it was perfectly "legal" (not that there was really such a thing as law there) for Saddam and his sons to crash a wedding, kill the groom, and **** the bride.

My point is, that if the government tomorrow said that I could go out and torture/kill any Muslims without fear of consequences, I would still be evil for torturing and a murderer for killing. Governmental permission or decree has no bearing upon what is good or evil.