[Loy]

OK, so I've been SIFFing it up for the past few weeks, and have had no time to log on....I've also seen how nicely this little discussion has gone along, however, I'd like to point out a few things Asurai-

You're little response to my post about our history with military use is, to put it lightly, one of the most ignorant, dumbest readings of history I've ever read in my life. I could pick apart what you got wrong, but frankly, I have about 15 minutes before I have to be at work, and it'd take me about 3 hours of typing before I even got about halfway through it all. However, I'm not calling you stupid. In fact, I don't think you made these statements out of sheer ignorance of history at all. (I'll get back to this point in a moment).

See, what I've noticed about your argumnents isn't an argument based upon any kind of moralistic viewpoint, at least as morality is understood on a linguistic level. See, the term "morality" implies an over-riding set of rules and conditions for ones viewpoint. However, when one pores over your posts, one thing becomes clear-what your posts are filled with are excuse-making.

Now, this is nothing new to me. In fact, "excuse-making" is what I've (sadly, I must admit) come to expect from anybody who argues from a "moralistic" stance anymore. (Do I really need to give examples when they're all around us in abundance)?

Now, does this imply that excuse making is immoral? Not neccesarily. However, what these excuse-makers do is cast doubt upon a stance different from their own (for example, that there is no such thing as a morality that isn't created by those expousing it) without providing anything to truly back up their views. Whilst you have made some good arguments against certain points of other peoples arguments, you have yet to actually prove (or even really argue) your point.

Now, here comes the second part of how you imply your side is right-your mishandling of facts. As I said earlier, your whole history lesson is full of holes. However, you weren't tryin g to give a full history lesson, as much as you were trying to "deconstruct" certain points of mine, and, to bring it all back to my point in the first paragraph, if a full exploration of historical facts were engaged by yourself (and by others on here. I'm actually saddened by the fact that nobody else had the guts to call "bullshit" on your mishandling of facts), you wouldn't have had much of an argumentative base, now would you?

Now, how you mishandled those facts is quite interesting-in fact, it's a perfect example of certain propaganda techniques. Give one point of view, deny the validity of other points of view, and keep repeating, as loudly and as often as possible, your POV. As you've said yourself, there are such things as absolute facts. However, what you're engaging in is the spreading of a "truth" (which is based upon how facts are viewed). You have pushed (and slyly implied) a "truth" that, when all the facts are viewed, can be easilly tossed aside.

[oh before I forget....before you try to argue for American Hegemony, I'd subbest you look up the definition of it. As anybody could've pointed out (and I should've. My bad), we never tried to set up an American Hegemon in Germany. Only in Japan. Again, another example of your mishandling of facts].

Thus by doing this, you're not only changing the "truth" of a situation, but the very definition of those events, and even the language used to describe them. THIS I find most offensive. And this, I call bullshit on.

Disagree with me all you want. However, when you fuck facts up (and, as it looks like, purposely)....well, it's simply "bullshit", and should be called so.

PS-you know what the funniest part of your historical innaccuracies are? It's that I could see through them. Why is that so funny? I'm not even what anybody could call a "historical expert"...fan, yes. Expert, no. However, I have a couple of friends who could be called "experts", and since they got tenure at the University, they are called just that. So, just for fun, I've decided to print up your little post and pass it along to them. I'm sure they'll find it as funny as I did.