[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Particularly when that money is used to move priests around in order to conceal that they're molesting altar boys.

See? Right here is the problem Sterrn, the Catholics don't "practice what they preach" any more than protestants. The history of the Catholic church is one of ****, murder, torture, and authoritarianism. If being Catholic suddenly made you "practice what you preach" they would've done something during the holocaust besides step to the side and let Hitler round up and ethnically cleans a race of people they hated.

No one is saying there haven't been problems in the past, but the fact everyone knows about them and they are out in the open being addressed means it's time to move on. I might post a few threads about the antics of the American government, but you do not see me droning on about how Americans were slave owners and how Americans supported slavery? Do I ever mention blacks being lynched for dating white women or them being forced to sit at the back of the bus? The knife cuts both ways. If you want to drudge up the past which has been addressed and use it as a cudgel, one could say Americans in general have their own sorted history. I choose to look at the current state and argue the finer points of what is happening now, not revert back to decades or centuries ago and use those as my talking points for an argument.

If Catholicism were really about helping the downtrodden (and not using charity as a tool for expanding it's ministry) you wouldn't have Pope Sideous saying stuff like "Aids may be bad but condoms are worse" in the middle of a continent-wide health crisis.

While there is truth to the fact they use this time to expand their ministry, you cannot ignore the fact they are helping many people in the process. Also, most Catholics today don't really listen to the whole birth control arguments any more and they are on their way out, much like the eating fish on Friday. We acknowledge it and officially if you ask a Priest they will say it is a rule, but most people have accepted this practice as a bit dated.

Now, Protestants aren't much better mind you. But the point is, neither Protestants nor Catholics are overly concerned with the plight of the poor, they use service as a ministry tool, but they aren't nearly as interested in making life better for their fellow man today, as they are in saving souls and ensuring as many as possible a place in the next world. You can't even blame them for it, according to their magic zombie that's what's most important.

I would disagree. I have seen and experienced the concern you say doesn't exist first hand.

I mean, aren't you all about the IRA? When does that whole "Turn the other cheek" thing kick in then? Don't you, as a Catholic, practice what you preach?

You do realise the IRA was stood down years ago and there have been no armed conflicts or killings in over a decade don't you? That being said the Founding Fathers in America were also of the Christian faith, yet they too took up arms to defend their freedom. Defending your family is not against any teachings in the Bible, but then again, you are going back decades trying to make an argument for something here that is more apples than oranges.

I think you are missing the main point of the study. Your references are towards the leadership in the Church. The followers for the most part are not to blame and many never saw any of the abuses or other atrocities which you outlined. It's not like every single church had a Priest who abused someone, there were some but in the grand scheme of things the multitudes were vastly unaffected and were raised with the the ideals and values which were intended. This in turn setup the mindset for their views on society.

Your obvious hatred towards religion in general seems to be clouding your ability to look at the sociological aspects of what this study has presented. It's not even about religion, it's about defining why some nations act in a certain manner while others take a different path and what makes it brilliant is that it follows right alongside the works of Weber and Marx.