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CptSternn · 05-12-2012, 01:12 AM

There is also the moral aspect of the argument.

As if he has already admitted that many people do need assistance (in regards to welfare and medicare) and should be getting it, then you can pose this question to him.

The percentage of people who are thought to be scamming the system is between 4% - 6%. That means 95% or so of the people getting this money actually need it. What senses does it make to collectively punish 95% of law abiding citizens to stop 5% of those who abuse the system?

Should highways be shut down when 5% of motorists are caught speeding?

What does it say about a person who focuses more on punishing the small minority instead of helping the vast majority? Why is punishing 5% of the population more important to him that helping 95%?

See, it's the governments job to weed out the bad apples here, not the publics. Unless he has actual information to pass on to the police about fraud, it's not his concern. Going after that 5% or so is something best left to the professionals who do that as a full-time job, not some guy who has decided to hate on poor and disabled people because he thinks they are somehow getting a 'free ride'. I mean, if he really thinks living on welfare is so great, he should try it. Move in to the local housing projects and see how 'great' life is.

It amazes me that when you are talking about such a miniscule amount of people who get this type of assistance and then an even smaller amount who engage in fraud that people would spend anytime worrying about it when things like millionaire tax breaks, millionaire mortgage credits, and a long list of other perks the 1% get totally dwarfs any of the amounts which he is discussing, yet people like him overlook this and focus right on the less fortunate.

The mentality which this comes from is very disturbing. They would rather the less fortunate suffer than let one single person scam the system. Well, until it is them or their family who need assistance. See that's the other thing that is different in America. In Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, etc. social welfare is a fact of life for almost every citizen. When you lose your job you get the dole, which comes from the social welfare department. Disabled people are paid via social welfare. People out on short term illness get money from social welfare. All of this comes from the same department and much like a doctor at some point in your life if you live in one of these countries you will be on social welfare. Therefore there is no stigmata attached like there is in America. When you tell someone in the UK/Ireland/Germany/Poland/Australia that you are going to collect your welfare check no one bats an eye. It's a normal thing. Everyone at some point has collected some form of social welfare.

In America if you told someone that there is an immediate condemnation within many social circles and it conjures up some pretty bigoted thoughts for many people. The right-wing in America have worked hard for years to establish this mentality, and it's sad to see people still engage in this sort of discrimination based solely on bigoted, racist concepts dreamed up by bigots and racists in the 1960's in America.

05-12-2012, 01:12 AM	#12
CptSternn Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,587	There is also the moral aspect of the argument. As if he has already admitted that many people do need assistance (in regards to welfare and medicare) and should be getting it, then you can pose this question to him. The percentage of people who are thought to be scamming the system is between 4% - 6%. That means 95% or so of the people getting this money actually need it. What senses does it make to collectively punish 95% of law abiding citizens to stop 5% of those who abuse the system? Should highways be shut down when 5% of motorists are caught speeding? What does it say about a person who focuses more on punishing the small minority instead of helping the vast majority? Why is punishing 5% of the population more important to him that helping 95%? See, it's the governments job to weed out the bad apples here, not the publics. Unless he has actual information to pass on to the police about fraud, it's not his concern. Going after that 5% or so is something best left to the professionals who do that as a full-time job, not some guy who has decided to hate on poor and disabled people because he thinks they are somehow getting a 'free ride'. I mean, if he really thinks living on welfare is so great, he should try it. Move in to the local housing projects and see how 'great' life is. It amazes me that when you are talking about such a miniscule amount of people who get this type of assistance and then an even smaller amount who engage in fraud that people would spend anytime worrying about it when things like millionaire tax breaks, millionaire mortgage credits, and a long list of other perks the 1% get totally dwarfs any of the amounts which he is discussing, yet people like him overlook this and focus right on the less fortunate. The mentality which this comes from is very disturbing. They would rather the less fortunate suffer than let one single person scam the system. Well, until it is them or their family who need assistance. See that's the other thing that is different in America. In Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, etc. social welfare is a fact of life for almost every citizen. When you lose your job you get the dole, which comes from the social welfare department. Disabled people are paid via social welfare. People out on short term illness get money from social welfare. All of this comes from the same department and much like a doctor at some point in your life if you live in one of these countries you will be on social welfare. Therefore there is no stigmata attached like there is in America. When you tell someone in the UK/Ireland/Germany/Poland/Australia that you are going to collect your welfare check no one bats an eye. It's a normal thing. Everyone at some point has collected some form of social welfare. In America if you told someone that there is an immediate condemnation within many social circles and it conjures up some pretty bigoted thoughts for many people. The right-wing in America have worked hard for years to establish this mentality, and it's sad to see people still engage in this sort of discrimination based solely on bigoted, racist concepts dreamed up by bigots and racists in the 1960's in America.