[Saya]

Originally Posted by Languor

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I'm sorry that my questions seem to be really upsetting people. I don't believe in cis-privelege but it's more an etymology problem than anything else. I think some people here are assuming that i'm saying that "trans people are not oppressed" when I'm actually saying "trans people are not more oppressed than women". Trans people are horribly oppressed!

The problem here is that "women" and trans* people aren't seperate groups. I assume you mean ciswomen and transwomen, but like I pointed out, this isn't always the case. Transwomen are the very worst off, I can't find statistics to support any other group of women who's prospects are so bad. Absolutely, coming from a queer poor white woman, I have privilege over transwomen.

God, I feel like every time I say what I believe somebody calls me a fucking idiot even though I've been listening intently to what every single person has told me here. I do not hate trans people, I would take in a trans person if they were in danger, I think all shelters should, I fight for equal employment.
I also think gender is a harmful structure and I wish that no one would conform to it as rigidly as typical non-feminists and many trans people do.

Trans people are inherently subversive to gender roles, because patriarchy says biology equals destiny. In my psychology book, it talks about a brilliant psychologist who is a trans man, who talked about how other psychologist men will say to him that women are inherently worse off at science, not knowing he is trans and got his degrees while he was living as a woman. I think he definitely is subversive and blows away sterotypes just by being. Even when Chaz Bono can be an ass about gender, he's subversive and very much oppressed.

Telling me how many people are being raaped (by men) while saying I'm ignoring that fact (Saya, we've discussed how many women get raaped every minute.) when I very much know that men raape and oppress and kill women and people who don't fit into gender roles is not necessary. I know. I've read the horrible statistics.

Its not just men though. Women can and do inflict violence and sexually assault partners when they come out trans. My whole point is that sexual assault is held up as a feminist and women's issue, and it is, but it intersects very much with race trans issues as well.

ape descendant:
I'm just going to say this now. You have been harassing me from the start, you've been hella aggressive since I started posting here and I really, really appreciate your input but please stop attacking me. I am not saying anything violent towards you and yet you've called me a bigot for asking questions and sharing something I thought was interesting. In that post I was not arguing anymore by bringing up my friend. I respect you guys and I wanted to know what you thought about something I had experienced. If I'm as ignorant as you make me out to be, answer my questions instead of screaming at me for thinking something you don't! If I leave this thread (which I'd be sad to do because I've learned so much from Saya and Solumina and would love to continue discussion with them) it will be because I think it's pointless to make a point when you're ripping into me for trying to question, present and debate.

Sol and I, I suspect, can speak of this more calmly because its not something we have as much personal investment in like Ape or MoC. MoC is trans and Ape is married to a transwoman as well. You can't talk about this issue without hurting someone out there, even innocent questions can be very hurtful. Their pain is very valid and exists for a reason.