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Old 05-03-2012, 05:37 PM   #156
Versus
 
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Despanan. Shut the fuck up and listen.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
No I haven't, I'm saying the problem isn't as bad as you think it is. Just because YOU got talked over at Occupy Norfolk, and Saya got talked over at Occupy Newfoundland doesn't mean that the global idea of Occupy is helplessly racist and sexist, nor does it mean that the racism and sexism that Occupy is dealing with is a product OF Occupy.
No. What you're saying is that what matters most, more then anything to Solumina, Saya, and I, is not as important to you as Occupy is. You have absolutely no perspective about what we're talking about and it's bullshit fucking privilege for you to tell us how we should prioritize our wants and needs.

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It's NOT it's a product of the culture that Occupy is trying to change and you are attacking folks who are trying to do something about it because it's not perfect. That's WRONG.
Unlike you, we have zero tolerance for racism and sexism. We don't give a shit how much lip-service you give to some fucking intangible thing like "effort", it is evident to us that it doesn't bother you as much as it does us.

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You aren't reading my posts. We have Safer Spaces, we have de-escalation, we have facilitators who are trained to deal with this stuff. What else do you want? You want me to personally beat up the next guy who talks over you at Occupy Norfolk?
We want to exist in an environment devoid of sexism and racism. There. Is. No. Excuse. No fucking compromise, no fucking alternative, no fucking concession.

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Please provide evidence for this, because I would LOVE to learn about Queer anarchism, I wasn't aware it existed.
Not her job to educate you.

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Also: Stop applying this critique to "Occupy" Occupy Norfolk is clearly different from Occupy Wall Street.
True Scotsman, again.


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Sure. By all means. Give up on the revolution and go volunteer at Moveon.org to get Obama re-elected. I'm sure that will bring change. I mean, he SAID it would bring change.
Are you fucking kidding me?

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I don't know about occupy Norfolk. I am not involved with Occupy Norfolk. I can't comment on their processes. I'm acknowledging that their may be something to your criticism but all I have to go on is your word based upon your limited experience. Until you bring more to the table than "People talked over me but not Jake two times" I can't say more than this.
I already fucking told you, stop blaming the fucking victim.

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Wait. I though no one listened. Now you're saying that some folks did listen? What were you even trying to say and how were you trying to say it?
Stop it.

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Look, you're on the internet, there is a TON of Occupy stuff on here, just look up the livestreams yourself. You very clearly already have your mind made up, about the lack of merit in a global movement for social justice because some liberal arts students got mad at you.
Stop it.

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Occupy IS extremely inclusive. I've been telling you that this whole time. I've been bringing link after link of evidence and you refuse to consider it. You refuse to consider testimony that doesn't 100% mirror your own view that Occupy is something women and people of color should not be involved in.
STOP. IT.

It's not her limited experience, it's not anything she did wrong. She was discriminated. Point fucking blank. Wrap your god damn head around it. There is nothing else she needs to prove, provide, or explain.

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IHaveNotAndITakeOffenseToThis. You, Solomina are making unreasonable demands on me, Ignoring the information that I have brought, and reading things into my posts which are not there. I have said multiple times that I am not denying your facts. I have never denied that there is a problem, I have just provided perspective and information on how the movement functions and what it's doing.
Demanding that you recognize that you are not providing anything BUT YOUR OWN GOD DAMN JUSTIFICATION FOR THINGS THAT DON'T MATTER TO YOU IS NOT UNREASONABLE, YOU IGNORANT FUCK.

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Just because I'm not throwing the biggest movement for social justice in forty years under a bus does not mean that I am dismissing your concerns.
Yes, it does.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
You know, I brought your concerns to a friend of mine who's really big in Occupy, and also happens to be a person of color.
I don't give a fuck what you're brown friend said.

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2) Why do you understand that this is absent from the movement? You haven't been to the GAs, you only have Saya's and Solumina's word to go on. Neither have been particularly involved in the movement. Granted this is because they apparently got disrespected by a few people when they did come out (Which sucks) but neither is really educated enough about the movement to say that for instance, Occupy Denver doesn't follow process.
1) I don't need to explain myself to you why I'm not involved with Occupy.

2) Saya and Solumina's experience is more important to me then your is. I think that should be evident.

3) Stop blaming the fucking victim.

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It's unreasonable to demand that everyone completely change overnight, and it's unreasonable to refuse to work with someone who's well-meaning but still clueless.
Don't tell me what's fucking reasonable or not. You don't know anything about explaining your racial oppression to somebody.

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I'm trying my best but I can't do it without you.
THEN LISTEN TO ME.
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