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Old 05-03-2012, 06:28 AM   #115
Solumina
 
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
Thanks V, glad to know I wasn't the only one who perceived that post that way.
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
That's pretty dismissive. Are you going to call me sweet-cheek's next.
You seem more like a Honey-Child. On a more serious note how exactly is that dismissive, I'm explaining how I'm perceiving your behavior in a pretty direct way. You have taken pages and pages to finally say this:
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
Here: I'll say it - Not recognizing privilege is Occupies #1 internal problem. Steps have been taken, and are being taken to correct this, but once again, this is a PROCESS
Up to this point you have been speaking as though it is only a few bad apples fucking shit up, when clearly it isn't, and even this statement does not go nearly far enough. It is not just about people not recognizing their privilege but it is also about open and overt discrimination. Also please tell me exactly what steps have been taken to actively deal with this, not passive stuff so that people will hopefully understand that it is wrong, I want to be safe and I want to be respected so I want measures in place so that something is done if someone disrespects me or makes me unsafe.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
Well I'm sorry that happened. I don't know anything about Occupy Norfolk. It may be that they're just doing it wrong.
Really, they may just be doing it wrong? That is such a fucking cop out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
That probably has to do with the lateral culture. Other political gatherings are constrained by hierarchy, so the crazies are less likely to speak up less they be banned. Still I contend that other political gatherings still have all of these problems, they're just concealed. At least with Occupy this shit is out in the open and it can be dealt with - and make no mistake it NEEDS to be dealt with, because without a cultural revolution all you'll get are reforms and small concessions.
Do you really think that Occupy is the only political movement with a lateral culture? It isn't and you need to stop using that as an excuse, the LGBT community here actually switched away from their hierarchy to a lateral community as a way to combat the internal problems that it was having such as discrimination against its trans and bi members, and it pretty much put a stop to those issues as it put everyone on an equal playing field. My experience with Occupy is not an equal playing field but majority rules and a herd mentality where people who do feel that something is wrong feel pressured into not placing constraints on fellow occupiers so this shit goes pretty damn unchecked.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
Sounds like you've got some Macho rednecks.
Funny you should say that, everyone seems to make that remark but the rednecks listened, the liberal arts majors didn't. Sure there are acceptation to that but for the most part these rednecks know that they are fairly clueless when it comes to this sort of thing and most of them have never been aware of their privilege, once you plainly show it to them they have the decency to at least take a moment to think about it. By a large majority those liberal arts majors think that they get it, they don't but they get really indignant if you try and call them on it and they get quite hostile.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
I'd say form a working group and send a proposal to the GA to facillitate more female voices.
Occupy isn't the only game in town and I would much rather spend my time working with other groups and getting shit done than sink loads of time and energy trying to get Occupiers to listen to my concerns.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
1) Teach-ins
What exactly is being taught and who is being taught? Are these things that are reaching every person or are they more or less preaching to the choir?
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
2) Facilitation is trained to deal with it
How are they trained and how exactly do they deal with it?
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
3) Speakers are brought in to lecture on it.
See #1, also are they lecturing about discrimination in general or about specific incidents?
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
4) It's written in to our official policy
And China officially has laws against forced abortions.
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
5) Occupiers are writing about it
They are mostly writing about how despite a few unpleasant events Occupy is really totally inclusive, at best they admit that there is a problem with people not recognizing their own privilege.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
6) every establishment liberal news source is repeating it ad-nauseaum
Fuck that no they haven't besides how the media portrays something or what they choose to investigate can't be claimed as something that Occupy has done.

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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
7) Our process itself addresses the problem
Spell out for me precisely how your process addresses the problem because from what I see it only gives the illusion of addressing it.

You may see a lot of "exactly"s and such, because I want specifics, you keep talking in fairly general terms, which is great for a press release but in this situation speaking in general terms is less than helpful. If you want me to feel like Occupy takes our concerns seriously I want to fully know and understand what is being done about them. Also if I know what, specifically, is being done and I don't feel that it is enough then I can make suggestions and point out exactly how and why I think more needs to be done
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
Why in the fuck do you contend that that nothing is being done?
Because I'm not so naive that I think assurances of things being done means that they are actually being done, and if they are that they will be the least bit effective.
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Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
What more do you want?
Desp you as an individual have continually been dismissive of our concerns, blamed us for the problems we have faced, and have made excuses for Occupy and you are someone I know to be compassionate, intelligent, and an all around great guy so if you are still acting this way how the hell can I be expected to think that Occupy will welcome me?
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