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Old 03-26-2012, 12:59 AM   #26
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No, I'm not saying that every woman on the face of this planet will naturally want to die to save their offspring. That's your generalisation not mine.

Have you looked at a puppy or a kitten and had your heart break for that animal - times that feeling by 1000 and you have the mothering hormone/instinct whatever.

But I love the way the two of you tag team, it's so sweet and reminds me of Desp and Kontan and their alpha male "you must think my way or die" attitude. It was heartwarming and cute at the same time.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:35 AM   #27
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Fruitbat - I get what you're saying. But the discussion in this thread is about women's ability to choose abortion, and whether or not the state has the right to prevent her from doing so based on its own definition of the foetus she is carrying and the equivalency of its life to hers. If a mother chooses to risk her own life to bring a foetus to term, however I or anyone else may feel about the logic of that decision, it's her choice. That's the whole point here.

So personally, I feel that within the context of this thread, that point's not strictly relevant to the debate at hand. This debate is about the state's right to choose for women; to outright tell them, "This is the value of your life as opposed to the life you're carrying, and no, you don't get a say in that."

For example, this poor woman did not lack mothering instincts; and indeed, her story only shows how the state is actually attempting to weaponize such instincts against women who aren't having abortions for "slutty" reasons (even by their narrow and religiously-oriented definition of such). Maternal instincts are, therefore, beside the point here.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:57 AM   #28
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Ah, see I like to get off track, often and with great feeling.

I also know I have very little sway on where the discussion moves in threads, except for the beer pong thread, where we have now decided to go on a roadtrip through Ren's homestate before we get to beer pong. I think it is before because afterwards, well we'll all be worshipping the porcelin god.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:05 AM   #29
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Well, fair enough; just explaining why I think you got tag-teamed, since you seemed to consider it the result of a "think my way of GTFO" attitude, when in fact, I'd say it was more about reacting against that kind of attitude. Certain Christian dickholes are, after all, trying to make unprovable opinion into law, and succeeding in places.

Although thinking about threads & the porcelain god in the same sentence only makes me think of tapeworm anyway, granted.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by CuckooTuli View Post
Well, fair enough; just explaining why I think you got tag-teamed, since you seemed to consider it the result of a "think my way of GTFO" attitude, when in fact, I'd say it was more about reacting against that kind of attitude. Certain Christian dickholes are, after all, trying to make unprovable opinion into law, and succeeding in places.

Although thinking about threads & the porcelain god in the same sentence only makes me think of tapeworm anyway, granted.
I'm not bothered about the tag teaming - isn't the first time and it won't be the last time. The first time was in a Desp and Kontan/Ashley O sandwich with a little Alan on the side, and that made me blush all over.

Because you see Saya and Sol are a little agro with me over another thread where they both decided backed out of an argument I was having, so I guess it's only fair that they get their turn on top.

But I do love how people think I'm Christian. The only Christian I want (to be) is Bale, but hey you can't have everything you want. If his body was a temple, I would worship under it every second of every day. (and this is meant to be flippant BTW).
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:07 PM   #31
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In what thread did I have an argument with you, let alone one that I backed out of?
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:48 PM   #32
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When you're being inane, you're being inane.

I looked up that woman you were talking about, she was a deeply anti-choice Catholic who is in the canonization process now to make her a saint. So yeah, not a decision made in a vacuum.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #33
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Fruitbat. Desp and Kontan never said or acted in a "think my way or die" sense. They had very strong and solid and well reasoned opinions that held pretty strong sway. So the burden was of competing ideas to measure up. If there was a stronger or more acceptable idea being presented, Desp and Kontan would alter their idea.

So it wasn't so totalitarian as that, it was more "Your ideas better be worth a shit or just die in a fire."

Totally not the same thing.

Matter of fact, this is exactly what made Desp and Kontan so brutal. You're using anecdotal and emotional ammo for this debate. It's not that you disagree with us, but you're using your own experience to muddy the water and when you do that, you're actually making us consider that your evidence is somehow enough to change an opinion that involves more people than just yourself. In short... you're kind of making the argument that because you were hxc motherly, that somehow the right to abortion should be limited in some way. And if that's not what you were trying to do, then you just tried to make this thread about you and I know I've told you to stop doing that a couple of times in the past already.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:26 PM   #34
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And here I was thinking it's perfectly reasonable to live with my head in a hole. Darn.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:42 AM   #35
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Er - got to say, Fruitbat, if this is how you usually roll then I'm beginning to understand why people become blunt with you. You haven't actually posted anything resembling an argument - just some personal opinion that (even leaving aside the redundancy of anecdotal evidence) bore little discernible relevance to the debate at hand, followed by some vague insinuations that you're being victimised. That's not how debates work; not unless you've actively trying to drive people to frustration.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:55 AM   #36
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Abortion is something that is the right of the woman in question to choose. No one, not state, or husband, boyfriend or family should be able to tell them if they can or can't have one. The only time I get iffy about this right to choose is if someone is using abortions to get rid of unwanted pregnancies in place of taking regular contraceptives/precautions. It may not be overly common but it does happen and I think it's wrong to use it in that way. There are so many contraceptive options that there shouldn't be any need for a person to use abortions as contraception but there are some that do and that makes me angry. Not because they don't have the right, more because they don't seem to realise the massive impact it has not only on their bodies but also on their emotions. I know accidents happen and they can happen more than once and it IS a woman's right to choose, I just think there are some cases where they choose too freely when there are options that would prevent them being in that position in the first place.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:09 AM   #37
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MissCheyenne, please consider the following:

Quote:
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YES. Because we all know that women LOVE abortions and will do absolutely ANYTHING to get one.

Birth control? Fuck birth control! Nothing compares to the sheer ecstasy of cold steel instruments dragging deceased sanguine feti from a woman's cervix. Nothing compares to the hot buzz of fluorescent lights and the snap of latex gloves as a stranger in a labcoat tears a parasite from your body. It's like popping a pimple, only that pimple has eyes, a heartbeat, and loves you.

GOD I'm getting hot just thinking about it. I'm probably gonna go knock my girlfriend up tonight just so I can jam a coat hanger up her vag in a month's time.

That's it. Woman have all the luck. I want an abortion. I want doctors to jam a fetus inside my colon, and tear it out with a pair of hot dog tongs. One isn't enough! I want MORE abortions! I want to have POWER ABORTIONS! I want to chug red-bull while an assembly line of medical professionals choke off the light of life growing inside of me. I want bathe in the blood of the unborn!

You'd better hope you pass a law to stop me Versus, because NOTHING short of federal prosecution is going to stop me from alternately cultivating/murdering generation after generation of my offspring, and I will spend, every waking moment of my life fighting to make abortion not only legal, but MANDITORY. Every woman alive will have to have at least 5 abortions before she can have a child, it will be like subway stamps, only with potential people instead of cold cuts.
Do you really think that abortion is anybodies primary means of contraception?
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #38
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If you notice, I DID say it's NOT common but it DOES happen. A prime example is my sister. In the last five years, she's been pregnant seven times. Out of those seven pregnancies, she's carried two to term and terminated five of them. She CHOOSES not to use condoms, the pill, the injection,implant or to be sterilized and sees abortion as her means of contraception. No, it's not common, I am in no way trying to imply that it is and that women as a whole love abortions but there IS a small, even very small minority that do use it that way.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:16 PM   #39
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Wow. Why does she do that, if you don't mind me asking?
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #40
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Honestly? I have no idea. Don't get me wrong, I am not and never have been angry at her or people like her for the fact that they choose to have abortions, what makes me angry about my sister and others that may act like her, is how casual they are about making that choice. Like it's not a big deal and it's an everyday thing. It isn't, it's a major event and my sister ought to treat it as such and take some responisibility instead of using and abusing a system that was fought hard for and continues to be fought hard for in some places.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:06 PM   #41
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Its a big deal for some, not for others. We can't get them here but if it was a medical abortion its just taking two pills, I can see why for women who don't react strongly to it that they wouldn't find it a big problem at all.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:10 PM   #42
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It's more that I don't see it just as a big thing in terms of what it does to your body but also it's a lot to cope with emotionally. Even if you don't want and have never wanted a baby, it's still a big thing to go through. I just can't understand why she chooses to act like that when there are so many other options available to her to prevent her from being in that position in the first place.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:04 PM   #43
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Its not always a big emotional thing. I know women who've had it who just felt guilty that they didn't feel guilty or sad at all like everyone said they have to feel.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissCheyenne View Post
It's more that I don't see it just as a big thing in terms of what it does to your body but also it's a lot to cope with emotionally. Even if you don't want and have never wanted a baby, it's still a big thing to go through. I just can't understand why she chooses to act like that when there are so many other options available to her to prevent her from being in that position in the first place.
Concerning abortion's emotional impact, I think that's a subjective thing that shouldn't be a factor in its availability. I know you said that you don't think so, either, but I just wanted to clarify. I can understand that some people don't care, and for the people that do, it's still not the law's place to dictate how other people should feel about it. And if your sister's health bothers you, I would think it would be more appropriate to direct your frustration at sex education rather then abortion itself.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:24 PM   #45
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It isn't necessary for guilt or sadness to be involved in order for it to be emotional, (this comment does not apply exclusively to the topic at hand and is mostly due to constantly explaining why manic states are every bit of a concern, if not more so, as depressive states)
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #46
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Sorry. I say the last bit about education in response to this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissCheyenne View Post
The only time I get iffy about this right to choose is if someone is using abortions to get rid of unwanted pregnancies in place of taking regular contraceptives/precautions.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:59 PM   #47
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Quote:
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It isn't necessary for guilt or sadness to be involved in order for it to be emotional, (this comment does not apply exclusively to the topic at hand and is mostly due to constantly explaining why manic states are every bit of a concern, if not more so, as depressive states)
It also doesn't have to be bad, but I don't think happiness and relief is what she's talking about.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:34 PM   #48
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Er - got to say, Fruitbat, if this is how you usually roll then I'm beginning to understand why people become blunt with you. You haven't actually posted anything resembling an argument - just some personal opinion that (even leaving aside the redundancy of anecdotal evidence) bore little discernible relevance to the debate at hand, followed by some vague insinuations that you're being victimised. That's not how debates work; not unless you've actively trying to drive people to frustration.
*sighs* I was making a comment on the topic, not debating, not making out I was victimised by anyone.. I pointed out in my last post that I ws being flippant.

I'm not arguing/debating/whatever the fuck you want to call it, anything about abortion. The last time I checked personal comments were still allowed in society, just maybe not appreciated in threads about abortion on G.net.

Yes I used some of my personal experiences in trying to get my point across, but as I said I was making a comment not a debate, not an argument, and no I wasn't trying to make this thread about me. if i wanted a thread about me, i'd start one, but I'm really not that interesting.

I was making a comment. Not debating anything, not arguing a point, just merely stating that I like Desp's argument, but there are times when logic doesn't hold up.

Then I made posts about how that logic wouldn't hold up, using some examples, and then suddenly people were jumping on me because they were suggesting that they thought I thought something which I didn't and never said anything of the sort.

So I got jumped on because you were all wearing your debating hats, whereas I was wearing my comment/observation hat.

So in future, I shall remember to stay out of the debate team threads, and shall promise not to have any comments to put forward.

HOLD UP

I think MissC just made a comment, or maybe an observation, or maybe just voiced her opinion on something. Maybe she wants a debate or maybe she was just mentioning her personal experience in passing.

Oh wow, two comments on one thread, how exciting for everyone.

**Warning: sarcasm was used in this thread***

Next time I'll make it clear that it's a comment. I thought it was clear but obviously its not.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:38 PM   #49
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
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I'm not arguing/debating/whatever the fuck you want to call it, anything about abortion. The last time I checked personal comments were still allowed in society, just maybe not appreciated in threads about abortion on G.net.
Right there. Look at how much you victimize yourself. I have but said two words in this thread and still I can see why you're wrong.

You say you're not making an argument, yet you also say how you were proving Despanan's logic does not hold. That's an argument.
You're hiding under layers and layers of rhetoric just so you don't have to listen to other people.

Why are your opinions not arguments but theirs are?
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