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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 02-10-2012, 05:14 PM   #226
Alan
 
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Yeah, it's totally ok to mutilate so many endangered rhinos just because people like thinking that the horns will cure them of their diseases.

Right there you have a perfect example of the danger and stupidity of belief for belief's sake.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:37 PM   #227
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Homeopathic medicine. Of course not usually supported by the FDA (cause the money's in the come-back, not the cure), but not everyone agrees with having man-made chemicals injected into their bodies that often tend to cause more harm than good. I've never heard of anyone getting anal leakage from meditating with stones or a session of acupuncture. You can search the bit on scent yourself.
Well, there's a major problem with your methodology right there. You're relying on hearsay and anecdotal evidence. You're presenting the anecdotal claims of yourself and others as fact. It doesn't work that way, YOU are not an authority on medicine, nor biology, nor even homeopathy, you're just an isolated self-described redneck. As Solumina and others pointed out, you're completely unaware of the fact that side effects are also present in herbs and leaves. If you want to be making bold claims, you have to back them up with real facts, not logical assertions.

ALSO: your logic is also broken: even if you WERE correct about no one having horrible side-effects from "meditating with stones" or acupuncture, that has nothing to do with whether meditating with stones actually does anything. I've never had anal leakage from walking down the street, but why should I expect that to cure my athlete's foot?

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This is where you lose me, and lose all credit. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, a free society does not dictate what it's people are "allowed" to believe. You don't agree with the first amendment, clearly. Otherwise you wouldn't be using words and phrases like "allowing people to believe,"[ as though you should have some say in what someone else chooses to do with their lives and bodies.
Ummm...What? What do you think I'm going to do besides point out what a retard you are for believing in your pointless, impotent god? What, are me and my atheist buddies going to show up at your doorstep and beat you with cement filled milk jugs until you're brain-damaged to the point where you no longer have a concept of God? Do you see atheists passing laws against belief and then patrolling the streets for thought-crime offenders?

This is real life homeboy, not a Jack T. Chick comic.

When I say I'm not going to let you get away with believing something that is in all likelyhood an idiotic lie, I mean I'm going to CHALLENGE YOUR BELIEFS. The absolute worst you'll ever have to deal with from me is an intellectual beatdown/public shaming due to you voicing your dumbfuck ideas in a public setting.

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You serve no purpose in this country so long as your views are about controlling what others chose to say or believe in. You are no different than the muslim extremist or the christian evangelist, and the fact that you can't see that only strengthens the evidence for it. You are an enemy.
0.0

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!11one.

Look out, we've got a badass here.

Oh my nonexistant god, are you SERIOUS? You're fucking serious aren't you? That is almost adorable. Muslim extremists will murder you for being gay. Christian evangelists will tell their flock to murder you for being gay. Given the opportunity, Mormon extremists will murder you for being gay.

I on the other hand, will call you a duckfucking retard and laugh at your idiotic imaginary friend, until you wise the fuck up and go away (or I get bored and decide to go do something awesome, like pop a sweet wheeley while shooting a gun and eating a hamburger off a naked chick's ass <---Doesn't make sense? That's 'cause you aren't as TOTALLY RADICAL as I am)

Cubby, hate to say it, but you aren't my enemy. You're not smart enough to be my enemy. To be considered my enemy, you have to pose a threat. You're as much of a threat as a toothless Pomeranian...actually, less so, because a toothless Pomeranian could probably shit on my floor (Don't shit on my floor).

So no, I'm sorry, I am not the Cobra Commander to your Colonel Hawk, Shit, you aren't even Shipwreck, and NOBODY liked Shipwreck. On the scale of Nemesis, you rank somewhere between Snarf and that monkey Maa-ti is always carrying around and I don't even know it's name so you'll have to look it up.

The gulf of our enmity is COSMIC, you can't even get there. It's like I'm Unicron and you don't even have the matrix. You're one of those useless ass humans who either die offscreen or I don't even bother to kill by accident, it's kind of unclear. I have keep looking at your username to remind myself who I'm talking to. This is like being threatened by sand.



DOES NOT LOGIC. Ya diggin' on that son?
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:17 PM   #228
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Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:41 PM   #229
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"...I've never had anal leakage from walking down the street, but why should I expect that to cure my athlete's foot?"
I skip ten pages because I know what's happening, and this is what I come back to?
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #230
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Look, you can actually skip ten pages of debate by saying that it doesn't matter whether god exists or not if you can't prove it (AND YOU CAN'T), and what DOES matter is having your thoughts straightened out. A code of ethics is NOT hard to form. Thoughts are like Freecell--some look damn near complete, but there's just one black four under the red king or whatever. You straighten out your lojicks, and then everything else comes natural. What's so hard about the Golden Rule? Why do you need a god to tell you to follow it?

All you really need to do, is to have a dance in other's shoes.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:09 PM   #231
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The fact that you think "you can't prove god doesn't exist" is an argument shows you haven't read this thread and you're just making exactly the same mistakes as others before you.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:33 PM   #232
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Just because it's impossible to prove doesn't mean it gives one permission to assume it's proven. In fact, to assume an answer to an unanswerable question is a flagrant lie to oneself.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:03 PM   #233
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The point is that since it can be neither proven nor disproven, one should not base their actions on the notion that a god exists--or doesn't. They can--but they shouldn't. They should measure their actions against the sum of their knowledge, and should seek to both increase that knowledge to the fullest extent possible and make it relevant.

Sceptism applies to all situations. Cynicism--not so much.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:36 PM   #234
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What exactly would be the actions of someone who lives as if god has been disproven?
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #235
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That depends on how they veiwed god to begin with. Such a thing can't really be generalized, I think.

A former fundamentalist might be disillusioned to the point that they adopt a nasty cynical attitude, or worse. Then again, they might not.

Still, proof is relative, and whatever their understanding of the concept of 'proven' is, that will be the deciding factor in how it affects them.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:16 PM   #236
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The point is that since it can be neither proven nor disproven, one should not base their actions on the notion that a god exists--or doesn't. They can--but they shouldn't. They should measure their actions against the sum of their knowledge, and should seek to both increase that knowledge to the fullest extent possible and make it relevant.

Sceptism applies to all situations. Cynicism--not so much.
One can certainly be undecided on a subject but then we're getting to a point as to determining which thought has more value. One is objectively more reasonable than another. If you're truly stuck in the middle, then you must admit that you don't know, but it'd be cumbersome to live as if a god exists just in case.

Is it really worth entertaining the idea that Russell's Teapot exist? Is it important?

In short, the most honest thing to say is that, "I can't prove one way or another if a god exists; therefore the most reasonable thing to do is to lack a belief that it's remotely real."

There could be micro organisms on Jupiter and it's certainly possible; but surely you can see the problem in assuming that there is life on Jupiter in the lack of compelling evidence.

The fallacy occurs when the agnostic assumes a positive. It is always more reasonable to not draw a positive conclusion in something that can't be proven.
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Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #237
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whatthefuckproofisnotrelativewhywouldyouthinkthat
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:29 PM   #238
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Proof is relative to knowledge. You could say that proof is just a way to get someone to believe something.

Everyone knows things others don't. No one knows everything. "Proof" is just whatever anyone believes. They'll invent a reason to believe it--it's what we do.

So far, we've invented science and lies. Unless something discovered lies before us...


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Old 04-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #239
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Proof is not just whatever anyone believes, that's BELIEF, what the fuck.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #240
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No, let me rephrase. Proof is relative to the sum of knowledge at the time. And, everybody's different experiences will limit how they take what someone else would consider proof.

A demonstration is proof, but to those who do not understand what they just saw...? What is it to them?
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:11 AM   #241
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proof/pro͞of/

Noun:

Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.


If I give you evidence enough to prove a claim and you reject that evidence for some stupid reason, it doesn't invalidate my evidence, it just means that you're a dumbass.

Just because some people are ignorant or demand an unreasonable burden of proof does not make proof itself relative...the thing that's relative to the individual is the reaction TO the proof, it has no effect on the evidence whatsoever.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:57 PM   #242
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But the knowledge of the time does.

Remember when they could proove that leeches cured colds? Or that people who float were witches...?

Not that I'm saying we live in medieval times. I'm saying we still don't know everything, and never will.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #243
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Well then, Angelic; if that's how you want to play this "God of the gaps", then god is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.

I've got a proposition for you, man. Give us an example or a hypothetical where religion will indeed offer a better answer than the scientific method. And saying that religion is a good band-aid for the shit we don't know isn't good enough.

We understand that there are people that aren't going to understand proofs.

All of those things in which you listed as the zeitgeist of those times have been corrected by the furthering of science. There are people out there who still insist the Earth is flat and who deny the Holocaust. But they're stupid. There's no need to muddy the waters of knowledge with bullshit like that. It would be shockingly surprising if at the very end of our faculties of reason, it is religion that would offer the final answer.
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Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:38 PM   #244
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I am not supporting religeon.

I believe there might be a god. If there is, he better well be damn pleased with the way I live my life--according to a code of ethics that I've formed based on experience and knowledge. If there's not--"boolay", as I would say.

I believe that what people CALL gods are made of just that--PEOPLE. Every subscriber to any religeon or belief in a god forms a member of that entity--just like an organization; an abstract entity. Not concrete, yet with just as profound(or more) of an effect on behavior.

Also, AshleyO, what you said is accurate. Blood is not bile, the brain does not produce phlegm. Those things are just things, with words and ideas attached to them. The greater we increase our understanding, the better a new system forms of definitions to more accurately define those things.
I repeat: I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF RELIGEON. That does not mean there are no gods.

It doesn't mean there is, either.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #245
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No one is telling you you're a proponent of religion; but you keep making the same mistake.
You can't be both guilty AND not guilty at the same time until proven one way or another. You are INNOCENT until proven guilty. We can't recur to the golden mean fallacy.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:12 PM   #246
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Totally man, I understand. I'm just saying, I'd like to keep an open mind.

By chance, have you read a pamphlet titled, 'What LSD Gave Me'...?

*shudder*. Dude, they got that guy with the same techniques dirty mechanics use to get more money out of gullable customers.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:28 PM   #247
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Why have you not had an open mind to the possible blue heffalump that I keep on my left pocket at all times?
Now that I have mentioned it, will you always have an open mind about its possible existence?
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:16 PM   #248
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I am god when I take acid.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:37 PM   #249
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Alan: I don't know what your definition of a blue heffalump is. You could have something in your left pocket that you consider or refer to as a blue heffalump, certainly.

Jack: You are god always, and so am I.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:56 AM   #250
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Alan: I don't know what your definition of a blue heffalump is. You could have something in your left pocket that you consider or refer to as a blue heffalump, certainly.

Jack: You are god always, and so am I.
It's actually an eraser, Angelic. Alan's blue heffalump is an eraser. So why is it important for you to give fealty to Alan's insistence that it's a blue heffalump? It's an eraser, dude.
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