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Old 11-16-2006, 09:23 AM   #1
LadyTsepish
 
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Advice like this is so wrong on so many levels.

Q:

My family thinks that im turning into a bad person because of the people i hang out with,the people that i hang out with are gothic people,and they are really nice a funny if you give them a chance but no one except me will.I dress in black but not all black i have blonde hair not black the closest thing to becoming like them are my nails because i paint them black.But my family isnt as open minded as me and wont give them a chance,they dont hurt anyone and they even go to church! help me!
A:

Dear Friend, The Goth style is very popular in schools today. And although many of the people who choose to be part of this group are very nice people, I think it is important to examine why you want to be included in this social group. I think the following web article will be helpful for you: http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0...ese_youths.htm

As a whole, Goth social groups take pride in depression and angst. The consider it an art. That's the reasoning behind the dark, depressing clothing. That's the reason behind the sad music. The whole purpose of the image is to communicate depression. As a Christian, we don't have any reason to choose to feel that way. God has given us every reason NOT to be depressed! Jesus has forgiven our sin and given us an eternal, joyful life in heaven. Why not celebrate God's gift of salvation with joy and gratitude, instead of embracing the sadness and depression caused by sin?

Even if you are not involved in the bad behavior of the Goth culture, society will still associate you with those bad behaviors. That's important to realize - because it is important that we care what other people think about us. As Christians, we are representatives of Jesus, our Savior. What someone thinks about us (true or not true) impacts what they will think of our Lord and Savior. Our lifestyle choices can impact some else's eternity!

I encourage you to make every effort to develop a reputation that reflects well on your Savior, so that your lifestyle choices will advertise your Savior as someone who brings lasting joy and peace into your life. I encourage you to talk with your pastor about getting involved in the youth group at your church (or starting one if you don't have one). Invite your friends to join you. Talk to them about developing a reputation which displays the happiness your Savior has provided for you.

May God's love guide you in your choice of social groups.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

My favorite part was the sentence: It is important that we care what other people think about us.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Here's the site:

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?...m_itemID=13095
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Even if you are not involved in the bad behavior of the Goth culture, society will still associate you with those bad behaviors.
"But, if you are involved in the bad behavior of 'normal' culture, society will find this perfectly acceptable and willingly look the other way."

Riiight...
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:43 AM   #3
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What bad part of culture that society accepts? Are you kidding me?
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:05 PM   #4
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When you embrace the Gothic subculture, one of the first things you realize is what you're experiencing right now. Even if you're not a bad person yourself, people are going to stereotype, judge you, and assume you're a bad person. It's just the way mainstream society behaves. It's always been that way, and will probably always be that way. If you're strong, though, you'll take society's ignorance and just tolerate it.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:06 PM   #5
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Oh, and as for the advice: it's another way for frightened, closed-minded Christians to feel like they're controlling what they fear.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:14 PM   #6
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I hate calling a bunch of people who dress the same a 'subculture' culture requires a coherent religion that everyone coheres to. So far I haven't met many 'goths' who share the same religious beliefs, or beliefs in general. Sub-culture even seems too generous for people who 95% of the time grow out of it.

For example:

Sub-culture:

A cultural subgroup differentiated by status, ethnic background, residence, religion, or other factors that functionally unify the group and act collectively on each member.


I don't see this in you kids.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:58 PM   #7
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It's not our fault you're blind.
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:38 PM   #8
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Okay, explain how you jerkoffs fit this. You guys are a group of like-minded individuals at best, but not a SUB-CULTURE. That's too fancy for you kids.
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:48 PM   #9
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I think people like this need to get a life. We enforce the idea of depression??? No, I'm sorry, that's for the emos. Not us.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:11 PM   #10
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Ha ha...y'know, when the fuckers finally wake up and smell the coffee, it'll be too late.
Little red-neck hicks that know nothing of what it means to be in the sub-culture they're posing as, go around listening to Marilyn Manson and shooting people or killing themselves. ONE case, in millions of perfectly placid Punks and Goths (and maybe Emo's- whom i still hate!). The media have a picnic with it...with articles ranging from "ten signs to tell if you child is a Goth" and "a new danger to your kids, Emo"...Which then make parents freak out and think all kinds of bad shyte!
And then they blame it on what? The parents? The Teachers? The people they got the guns from? NO, they blame it on people they were trying to mimic!
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by om3gag0th666
I don't see this in you kids.
Subculture: an ethnic, regional, economic, or social group exhibiting characteristic patterns of behavior sufficient to distinguish it from others within an embracing culture or society.
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:39 PM   #12
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we're all the same in that we're human and we relate to each-other. but we are non-conformist and show signs of individuality....
For signs on this: see the any thread in these forums!!!
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It's more the actual knife
Pretending the picture is perfect
I cut myself to sleep
I close my eyes for a second
And curse my fragile soul
I scream to hide that I'm lonely
The echo calls my name

*ANIMAL CRACKERS*

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Old 11-17-2006, 02:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by om3gag0th666
What bad part of culture that society accepts? Are you kidding me?
Drink bingeing, cheating, selfishness (it's thought of as "looking out for number one", and allows people to completely and utterly disregard ANYONE else but themself, and be rewarded for it), bullying to get what you want, one-night stands, shameless consumerism... (just take a look at Valentines' Day and Halloween to see how good traditional holidays have been r@ped by shops, and we lap it all up! And did you know a lot of people these days have a very real psychological addiction to shopping?)
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Old 11-17-2006, 03:58 AM   #14
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Omega, your definition was as follows:
A cultural subgroup differentiated by status, ethnic background, residence, religion, or other factors that functionally unify the group and act collectively on each member.

I would like to point out the last phrase- 'other factors that functionally unify the group and act collectively on each member'. For us, it was initially the music- the origin of our subculture is in the post punk movement, when we were unified by a single style of music and mindset.
These days, the music has varied, as has the aesthetic and mindset, but we are all fundamentally goth. We don't have a 'national image', as we don't have a single ethnic background, residence, religion, etc. But at the same time, we have enough similarity, enough in common, and a large enough base to be able to accommodate wider schisms (trad/cyber) and differences, and yet remain a single subculture.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c130
Drink bingeing, cheating, selfishness (it's thought of as "looking out for number one", and allows people to completely and utterly disregard ANYONE else but themself, and be rewarded for it), bullying to get what you want, one-night stands, shameless consumerism... (just take a look at Valentines' Day and Halloween to see how good traditional holidays have been r@ped by shops, and we lap it all up! And did you know a lot of people these days have a very real psychological addiction to shopping?)
How many of our politicians do any of the things you stated? Very few come out and say it, it's NOT accepted. You just think it is because pop-culture likes it, but they lambast the hip-hop 'culture' as much as the goth 'culture.'

--

I still have no idea how any rational human being can adhere to a group other than their nation. To say one is 'goth' completely undermines originality, individuality, and makes them all relatively stereotypical. Stop labeling yourselves children, it's high-school stuff.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:31 AM   #16
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They can berate it all they want, but by doing so, they recognize its existence.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyTsepish
...As a Christian...

And it surprises you all that the advice given was anti-goth?

No, I'm not saying that goths can't be Christian or that Christians are short-sighted, bigotted, narrow-minded [insert whatever else you want to read into what you think I'm stating here] - I am saying that a Christian who runs a 'Dear Abby' type of website where s/he will give advice on a situation that s/he knows very little about is going to be like that.

I imagine even Jesus Christ would recommend getting to know someone before attempting to give them advice on changing their life views.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by om3gag0th666
I hate calling a bunch of people who dress the same a 'subculture' culture requires a coherent religion that everyone coheres to. So far I haven't met many 'goths' who share the same religious beliefs, or beliefs in general. Sub-culture even seems too generous for people who 95% of the time grow out of it.

For example:

Sub-culture:

A cultural subgroup differentiated by status, ethnic background, residence, religion, or other factors that functionally unify the group and act collectively on each member.


I don't see this in you kids.
I was going to debate this point, however Godslayer Jillian and Delkaetre have more than eloquently done so.

I will, however, ask why you feel the need to be so patronising with your little 'you kids'? Does it make you feel all mature and intelligent? It must be nice to be so easily fooled.

Wanker.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicate_Torture
I will, however, ask why you feel the need to be so patronising with your little 'you kids'? Does it make you feel all mature and intelligent? It must be nice to be so easily fooled.

I was thinking along the same lines, and I have to add another question. By being condescending, do you think that's going to make anyone want to listen to you? No one wants to be treated as below someone, and they certainly don't want to listen to someone who thinks they're oh so high and mighty. So, why talk down to us?
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:51 AM   #20
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As he said, he likes to put up a façade. (Or 'facade' as he prefers to spell it, even after picking on my 'naive'... there, we're even)
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Old 12-09-2006, 02:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
As Christians, we are representatives of Jesus, our Savior. What someone thinks about us (true or not true) impacts what they will think of our Lord and Savior. Our lifestyle choices can impact some else's eternity!
Whoever wrote that is so confused. Jesus wasn't a snob. Jesus was a nice guy who hung out with whoever needed him and he didn't care that people were going to look down on him. Christians are supposed to imitate Jesus's niceness, not come up with superficial ideas that just make them sound all high and mighty.

I'm kinda sleepy right now, so I might not be putting my thoughts into proper words, but you know what I mean.
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c130
As he said, he likes to put up a façade. (Or 'facade' as he prefers to spell it, even after picking on my 'naive'... there, we're even)
I know how it is spelt, but I cannot use the alt combinations.

Also, none of you belong to a sub-culture, nothing unifies you. That's like saying atheists are a sub-culture.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaizabel Cray
So, why talk down to us?
I'll take this line of reasoning to its natural conclusion. Why talk to us at all? Why not find someone that is more on your 'level' of intellect.

Hmm, I prefer using 'spelt' to 'spelled' myself.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by om3gag0th666
I know how it is spelt, but I cannot use the alt combinations.
And the same applies to my own lack of use of a special character, my dearest chum.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:34 PM   #25
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I smell hypocrisy in the air,
Posts that are anything but,
Becoming exceedingly rare.

Omega, no offense, are you schizophrenic? You cannot seem to hold down an opinion for longer than 20 minutes.
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