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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 04-07-2005, 06:18 PM   #1
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A Queer-Bashing Dissected

I read this article about a week ago, but only had time to put it up today (moving and all that jazz). Figured I'd link it up and see what you guys think of it.

http://www.thestranger.com/2005-03-31/feature.html

and an update

http://www.thestranger.com/2005-03-31/feature.html
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Old 04-07-2005, 09:59 PM   #2
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The idea that his attackers' lawyer would ever try to build an argument based on God's law being higher than civil law... disgusts me. I know he didn't do that in this case, but the lawyer they described was just intensely disturbing.

On to the case- I thought the parallel between the lives of Micah and his attackers was interesting- both of them being so close to the Episcopal religion. Evidence like this shows that our sexuality is at least somewhat inherent in nature. Unfortunately, so is hatred. Hearing about how people still hate... I don't understand it. People throw things at kids walking down my road (liberal college in a rich town + rich ass idiotic high school kids = ugh), and I really don't understand what motivates such bullshit.

I'm sorry, this is getting off into "Rant Corner" material, but it really makes me sad to watch everyone become so used to stuff like this, even myself.

Being interested in Chechnya so much, I've really been questioning a lot of things in religion. I keep coming back to the fact that nothing will change if people still interpret their religious beliefs as rights to kill, hurt, taunt, hate, etc. I, personally, believe that religion should be personal, and that it shouldn't be impressed on other people, but what if somebody's religious belief is otherwise (as is often the case)? They don't understand ideas of open-ness. I don't get that. It's like something seriously happens to these people, and they're scared to accept. I don't understand.

Reading the last section of this article, I am amazed at how Micah's life was virtually destroyed by his sexuality. He had so much potential, and potential needs attention, not whatever you call the kind of treatment his father and mother provided. My god. And they call themselves parents.
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Old 04-08-2005, 07:09 PM   #3
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I think it's odd that they boys were moved from a place wherer they were hated and, rather than accepting others and treating them as human beings, they merely spread the hate.

What's the point?People like them need to focus more on the parts of there good book that say "Whatsoever you do unto the least of my brothers,so also you do unto me."But unfortunately more people focus on the descrimanitrory bits rather than the whole teaching.Which is, after all, about loving others.

Interesting note:

I was in te hospital recuperating after delivery when I saw an advertisement for an upcoming Oprah about couples that swing.My MIL happened to be in the room and started in about 'sanctity of marriage' and whatnot.I told her it didn't matter what people did in their bedrooms and people shouldn't judge some one else's sexual habits as long as they aren't sexual predators.She thinks there isn't that wide a margin between swingers and **********.

:x

Yet another person who I'll never be able to be completely comfortable around.I don't even want to get into what my mom thought about me telling her I was bi.Hurray for parents loving you for who you are.......NOT.

:roll:
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Old 04-09-2005, 10:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMoon
She thinks there isn't that wide a margin between swingers and **********.
it must be very scary to exist within such a small world.
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Old 04-11-2005, 02:59 AM   #5
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This type of activity is bound to increase even more than is has since bush has taken office. With his push for an ammendment against gay marriage, its an outright attack on homosexuality.

Also, when bush and ashcroft got directly involved in the other killing in montana and made them take the death penalty off the table for the lads who killed their gay classmate, that sends a message as well.

I loved their argument that life is precious, coming from bush, the same guy that executed more inmates than any other governor in history.

All that and his adminsitration fought to keep gays from getting equal protection under the law - keeping them from being able to file descrimination suits in a few states as well as not letting people who are beat because they are gay get protection under the hate crimes act.

It all says the same thing to the public - that on some level this behaviour is acceptable. Worst part is, you have people everywhere who feel the same way but won't admit to it. I mean, people are forever making gay jokes, where as they would be offended if anyone suggested making a joke about blacks or jews.

Also note the number of people on this very board who have participated in gay bashing. It shows no matter where you go in the states, people still are in a 1950's mentality when in comes to gays.

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Old 04-11-2005, 04:56 AM   #6
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That's true. With the disproportionate amount of influence the religious right has over some aspects of US policy, "family values" and whatnot, obviously the basis for increased tolerance toward alternative lifestyles will be eroded. Someone is always willing to latch on to some higher authority to divide the world into neat little cubicles of right and wrong.

Any official policy and legislation that refuses to recognize the basic human rights for gays and other minorities, can act as justification for certain backwards people who for various misguided religious or fucked-up personal reasons are anti-gay. Some violently so, even, like those fucks who did this. What can you do to rehabilitate such dangerous assholes? I don't understand that level of 'righteous' hate at all, I just know that there has to be a fundamental change in the way society tackles issues of personal freedom to (peacefully) deviate from the norm, and to discourage the resurgence of such hate-crimes in the future.

I mean - being aware that you're a bit homophobic, but not to extent that you would ever be abusive towards gays - is a helluva lot better than simply thinking it's wrong to be gay. I don't care what holy being you imagine told you that, just sit the fuck down and get over your hateful self.

Sigh... It's hard to influence people's conservative thinking patterns on such issues if it's something that's deeply ingrained, and ostensibly sanctioned by church and state, even. Which is why it's important for the leaders of those respective institutions to really think, in detail, about what they express through their speeches, and their policies. Politicians sadly have a tendency to sacrifice thorough explanations for grandiose soundbites, to not alienate potential voter. If being clear about haltiing the propagation of discrimination (excuse the Sum 41 rhyme) means losing some religious nut-votes, who the fuck cares?! Some leaders need to grow a spine, that's for damn sure.

Shit, I might not have been to eloquent myself with this post. Don't have time to go over it now. I'm trying to express something I feel strongly about, but I'm kinda pressed for time right now, so please excuse any incoherence.
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Old 04-11-2005, 11:46 AM   #7
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I think the point comes across very well, Pit!

And I couldn't agree more.People shouldn't have to live in fear of others just because they happen to prefer members of their own sex.What the fuck is wrong with society nowadays?This is a whole new millinea, people, not our grandparents time!It's time we started acting like we've actually learned something from the past instead of letting hate breed because it's 'normal' to hate someone that's different from you.

I could ramble on all day, but must refrain.I will say only this:If either or both of my children are gay/straight/bi I will love them because they are mine, they are precious and I will never pressure them to be anything but themselves.And if someone attacks them for who they are I will rip out their throat with my own teeth.
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Old 04-11-2005, 12:01 PM   #8
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Sounds like a good conclusion to me.

Are we jumpin' somewhere?
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Old 04-11-2005, 12:19 PM   #9
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You can watch my boobies jiggle as I jump.

:twisted:
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:39 AM   #10
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Seems like you can't go very far without running into some "gay bashers." Happens in the States with Evangelical Catholics and Southern Ideology derived from that. Happens in places like Northern Ireland with... Catholics again? Yep. The IRA likes to beat up gays too. Go give your little cub scout group your pep talk first, Sternn, before you start critizing the rest of the world (i.e. The United States - as that's the only other country that seems to exist in your world other than Northern Ireland. Hell it's the ONLY country that is against gay marriage, right?)..
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:07 AM   #11
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The IRA has been blamed for quite nearly everything here. Trying to somehow bring them into this conversation is, well, reaching. Might as well blame high gas prices and the decline of the american dollar on them as well, I'm sure you can spend your day finding some obscure article on some obscure website to validate that point for you.

Gay marriage is not ilegal in Ireland, in fact, there arer many married gay couples here, and yes, we have gay clubs and a gay scene. One of my best mates here is a tranny, and has many friends in town, including many republicans.

Like I said, good thing you read alot on the web, but until you actually LEAVE your basement, try not to tell others who actually live in these other places how we live out lives.

As far as the bush administration is concerned, I think they havemade thier point quite well known - they made a cmapaign issue out of gay marriage.

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Old 04-13-2005, 10:29 AM   #12
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It's reaching? It's reaching to bring George Bush into this arguement, as he has only stated the desire to ban gay marriage. Not sure if you're aware of this, but there aren't more than 4-5 countries that actually allow gay marriage. The rest, including France and the UK, don't acknowledge it's institution.

The thing people like you don't grasp, is that marriage is not the only union in the world between two people. Some areas you can get a civil union, which is marriage without the title of "marriage." Same government benefits. Same treatment... without the title.

The IRA, on the otherhand, is apparently doing more than just voicing anything out in politics. They're going around beatting the shit out of homosexuals like the loons in the original article. That's pertains alot more to this discussion than President Bush does, as he's not out there with a baseball bat smacking homosexuals around like your bestest buddies in the world are.

Northern Ireland allows gay marriage? Man, what are they teaching you in the schools over there? Northern Ireland allows "civil unions" between two gay people, not gay marriage. Try learning something for a change, rather than getting the scoop from your brilliant transexual, gay, military, Iraqi, Iranian, and whatever other friends you conveniently have to toss into a political conversation... which of course, never does anything to win you any arguements. At the end of the day, you'll still be wrong. Again, and again. You constantly rely on that and it always lets you down. You should find another angle or something else to lie about. Seriously. I got an idea, in fact. After reading my next point, you should come up with a retort that sounds something likes this: "I'm good friends with President Bush and he told me he wants to destroy all gays."

Oh, and on your thoughts about Bush, the New York Times did an article on him about this issue that you'd be interested in reading. Couldn't get a link directly to the NY Times site, but here are several blogs that have reposted the article:

Article
More
Again
And Again

You can look these quotes from President Bush up on the net if you want to research this yourself.
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"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:38 PM   #13
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How you can try and bring the IRA into a conversation about gay bashing is beuyond me. It shows the depths of which you will go to take a topic totally off its base and make it some personal attack against me. You don't like me. Fine. Grow up and try to act like an adult here. If you haven't noticed, the 4 days you were away, a couple good conversations with more than just you and ally started, and continued.

To see you try and stop such good dialogue between the users here is sad.

Just because you can't defend your position on this topic because your lord and master ole gw bush has taken the wrong path doesn't mean you have the right to try and tell others what they believe.

If your saying because I live in Ireland and am an Irish Republican I'm a gay basher, your wrong. I used to own a club which my business partners were both gay. We had an all gay saturday dance event and a sunday drag show. Many Irish friends attended both. No issues. I go clubbing on the weekends here, with not only Irish Republicans, but a few lads who have done time for membership in the IRA. Dance clubs, gay men, house music, and low and behond they don't just start shooting everyone! In fact they go and have a great time. So stick to what you have seen, experienced, or have witnessed.

If you want to do something to further the topic here, tell us YOUR views on the subject, not what you read that someone said about a person who I have other similar views with. Thats just not helpful.

I think this topic goes hand in hand with the Eric Rudolph trial. The right wing nut jobs who 'supported' Terry, and thought that the killing of the gay men were justified now are supporting the bombing of the abortion clinic. All along the same vein. The current administrations attitude does nothing to help stop the violence. I think it's funny they are now trying to say its not a 'Christian' thing, but a 'skinhead' thing.

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Old 04-13-2005, 01:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
... It shows the depths of which you will go to take a topic totally off its base and make it some personal attack against me. You don't like me. Fine. Grow up and try to act like an adult here.

Just because... ...doesn't mean you have the right to try and tell others what they believe.

...So stick to what you have seen, experienced, or have witnessed.

If you want to do something to further the topic here, tell us YOUR views on the subject, not what you read that someone said about a person who I have other similar views with. Thats just not helpful.

Hummmm Looks like these comments are a double-edged sword.

Because americans think this wisdom from the old country is nearly mystical, and because of the fact that I adore dishing it out with a paternalistic attitude, Ill go on to say this:

In Portugal, we say that those with glass tiles on their houses shouldn't throw rocks at the neighbours.

How's that? Traditional enough, or you want something more bloody?
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Old 04-13-2005, 01:51 PM   #15
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more bloody
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Old 04-13-2005, 02:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
How you can try and bring the IRA into a conversation about gay bashing is beuyond me.
From the guy who brought up George W and Ashcroft in this thread.


Quote:
Grow up and try to act like an adult here.
Says the guy who thinks buying this

makes him a soldier.

Quote:
If your saying because I live in Ireland and am an Irish Republican I'm a gay basher, your wrong.
I gotta agree with him here, Binkie...sorry. I know for a fact, as I have proof...

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Old 04-13-2005, 02:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
more bloody
Bad luck is when you fall on your back and bust up your balls! :?

Howzat?
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:07 PM   #18
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much better
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Old 04-13-2005, 08:17 PM   #19
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This thread has nothing to do with President Bush. You went after him because you know it pisses people off when you try to skew every political conversation that goes on here to fit your anti-Bush agenda. So guess what? I'm running a campaign to do the exact same thing with the IRA. You don't like it, stop bringing Bush into irrelevant conversations and I'll stop bringing the IRA into them. This is the exact same stuff you pull, bub. Too bad you can't even take a dose of your own medicine though.

I've already defended Bush on the issue by pointing out that he's not exactly out of step with the rest of the world's major politicians in Europe. You ignored that though, which is no surprise. I invite you to go back and read those articles several more times - as those were in defense of Bush's position on homosexuals, which you seem confused about. Of course, if you have doubts about the administration, why don't you look at Dick Cheney's daughter and his relationship to her. She's a lesbian and he openly supports her as well as gay rights. "Freedom means freedom for everyone."

Yeah, saying it's a "skinhead" thing is kinda stupid. They should say, "It's an IRA thing." :lol:
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:04 AM   #20
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TStone

Position of…I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK
I sleep all night and I work all day.

Chorus:
He's a Lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea

Mounties:
He cut down trees, he eat his lunch
He go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he go shopping and has buttered scones for tea.

Chorus:
He's a lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.

Mounties:
He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars?!

Chorus:
He's a lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie, just like my dear mamma!

Mounties:
He cuts down trees, he wears high heels?!
Suspendies...and a bra?!

...He's a lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

...He's/I'm a lumberjack and he's/I'm OK
He/I sleep all night and he/I work all day.


And uhh Al?

Why is that funny little man chasing his lawn mower?

:?
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:31 AM   #22
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He's not. if you look close, it's one of the Village People dancing wit hit and is pushing it with his hips.
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie
bub
Which was the Marvel her o who said "Bub" a lot?

Was it the "Thing" (Fantastic 4) or Luke Cage?

Damn.... :shock:

Stay off drugs, kids...
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:35 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlKilyu
He's not. if you look close, it's one of the Village People dancing wit hit and is pushing it with his hips.
Oo0o0o I get it!!

Sternn used to spin for the Village People..

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Old 04-14-2005, 12:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

Oo0o0o I get it!!

Sternn used to spin for the Village People..

Yeah, but they kickedhim out when they found out he wasn't reall the "Army Guy" cause he wsa never actually in the military.

Plus this guy



used to beat him up, hence his hate for rednecks.
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