Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Politics

Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-13-2009, 11:05 AM   #1
Deadmanwalking_05
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
Blog Entries: 1
Constitutional militia movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constit...litia_movement

The modern constitutional militia movement, the constitutionalist wing of the "militia movement" in the United States, became active in the mid 1990s in response to outrage about the violent confrontation at Ruby Ridge, the Waco Siege and gun control legislation. [1] The movement is composed largely of veterans, libertarians, and Second Amendment advocates who share a common motivation of anger at federal government actions and also a set of ideals associated with the values of the militia they see embodied in the Constitution. [2] [3]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Background
* 2 Definition
* 3 Structure
* 4 Controversy
* 5 See also
* 6 Notes

[edit] Background

The roots of the modern Constitutional militia movement are found in the revolutionary nature of the militia with precedents in United States colonial history, found in the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. Constitution, and subsequent federal legislation. This early republican militia tradition included an armed populace that was supposed to be kept organized and ready to function to safeguard against the tyranny of government and standing armies.

The constitutional militia movement has continuity back to the American Revolution, with periods of subsidence and revival. Revivals include Fries Rebellion (1799),the Revolution of 1800, the Dorr Rebellion (1842), the Copperheads (1861-65), and the American Liberty League (1934). Throughout American history, there have also been other constitutionalist revivals in opposition to many governmental actions deemed unconstitutional.[4]

Some writers[5] have claimed the modern revival of the constitutional militia movement began as early as 1958, but that, in this early phase, it was associated ideologically with the white supremacist Christian Identity movement mixed with constitutionalist elements. However, the more comprehensive recent treatment of the subject by Robert Churchill debunks this portrayal.

Beginning about 1960, a fear of Communism was prevalent in the United States in light of communist victories in China, Africa, Eastern Europe and Latin America. This concern was shared by members of the constitutional militia movement who feared a collectivist takeover of the United States. The constitutionalist militia purpose draws upon the old Colonial role of the militias as defenders of America against foreign invaders generally, and specifically against collectivist forces infiltrating and dominating within the United States. These militia revivals believed in the sanctity of the U.S. Constitution, and that certain groups are conspiring to destroy America. Unlike the Christian Identity groups, the Constitutionalist militias generally resist casting blame on ethnic, racial or religious groups, but rather blame influential individuals or groups of individuals (e.g., the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission) collectively known as the New World Order.[6]

[edit] Definition

Conceptually, a citizen's militia has been defined as a constitutionalist private army meeting regularly to practice combat skills and discuss weapons. The militia is defined as a social group with a distinct territory, being anti-governmental in outlook, and having definite opinions regarding use of force to further militia goals. It may have an offensive, paramilitary, and/or defensive orientation depending on circumstances.[7]

Operational features include.[8]:

1. Training in combat scenarios and weaponry skills in mock actions and maneuvers.
2. Has an identifiable territory in which members reside.
3. Bases organization philosophies on anti-government rhetoric.
4. Development of contingency plans in case of governmental provocation.

[edit] Structure

One writer offers a typology of the constitutionalist militia movement that identifies four types[9]

1. The Open Constitutionalist, with the Cascade Brigade as an example.
2. Constitutionalist/Command Structure, with the Alabama Constitutional Militia and the Michigan Militia as examples.
3. Constitutionalist/Cell Structure, with the Militia of Montana and the Texas Constitutional Militia as examples.
4. Underground/ No Public Contact, with the Sons of Liberty (Alabama) as example

However, others view constitutionalism as the movement, having a militia wing, rather than a militia movement with a constitutionalist wing.[4]

[edit] Controversy

From the inception of the modern movement there has been controversy over whether the movement was an important part of a complete response to many important threats, or a threat in itself. Both protagonists and antagonists have emerged in all parts of society.[4]

Discuss
__________________
"The Answer To 1984 IS 1776"
I may be crazy to a few...but at least I'm Committed.


9x29mmR : The Choice Of Millions for the last 100-107 years.
Deadmanwalking_05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 11:12 AM   #2
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
*facepalm*
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 02:08 PM   #3
Deadmanwalking_05
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
*facepalm*
*Soaks brown paper bag with water and offers it to Despan*

Here try and act your way out of this.
__________________
"The Answer To 1984 IS 1776"
I may be crazy to a few...but at least I'm Committed.


9x29mmR : The Choice Of Millions for the last 100-107 years.
Deadmanwalking_05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 02:22 PM   #4
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
*facepalm*
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 02:31 PM   #5
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Oh... good. A group of armed people that would sacrifice people to a piece of paper.
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 07:19 PM   #6
Drake Dun
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 1,178
Paranoia about Communism is passe. We're afraid of terrorists now.
Drake Dun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 08:20 PM   #7
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Not when our president is a black socialist nazi that's going to kill your grandmother!!
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 04:48 AM   #8
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Militia = nut jobs with guns.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 07:29 AM   #9
PortraitOfSanity
 
PortraitOfSanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
*facepalm*
I couldn't have said it better myself.
__________________
You should talk you fugly, cat bashing, psychopathic urinal on two legs...
-Jack_the_knife

I don't hate you. Saying I hate you would be like saying I hate a dog with no legs trying to cross a busy freeway.
-Mr. Filth
PortraitOfSanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:01 AM   #10
Red Menace
 
Red Menace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunny South Wales
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05 View Post
Discuss
Oh lawdy lawd, we've been set an essay question!

I'm in the UK. I grew up in a household with guns - my father had shotguns, and I did clay pigeon shooting with shotguns and target shooting with sporting pistols as a kid. It was fun, although I was never a particularly good shot. Even so, I will never, ever understand this US obsession with munitions.
Red Menace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:06 AM   #11
Renatus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in Wisconsin(thinking about invading the south)
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn View Post
Militia = nut jobs with guns.
Yeah but you must remember the military=highly trained soldiers commanded by nutjobs. So pretty much all we have in the end is a higher percentage of organized nutjobs. Frankly I'd rather have organized nutjobs than a bunch of nutjobs going around on their own doing whatever they feel like at the moment.

As for the obcession with munitions, frankly it's the only thing we have left that can scare the government. As has been said many times before, a government NEEDS to be scared of it's people, not the other way around. Frankly do you really want people to be that scared of the government? Sure they wouldn't have guns... that never stopped Dauhmer, and people have a tendancy to go crazy when they're scared.
__________________
"The chaos of the world viewed from a distance reveals perfection."- me

"Never overestimate the intellect of someone so foolish that they would exploit and perpetuate stupidity in the people around them, for they create their own damnation as they tear out and sell the pillars that support society as a whole, bringing it crashing down upon them."-me

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”- Einstein
Renatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:17 AM   #12
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus View Post
Yeah but you must remember the military=highly trained soldiers commanded by nutjobs.
But the people holding the guns are as you said, highly trained.

People with little-to-no formal education who think wrestling is real and the moon landing is fake should not be encouraged to carry automatic weapons.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:43 AM   #13
Renatus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in Wisconsin(thinking about invading the south)
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn View Post
But the people holding the guns are as you said, highly trained.

People with little-to-no formal education who think wrestling is real and the moon landing is fake should not be encouraged to carry automatic weapons.
Training doesnt control what you define as friend or foe, it merely makes you better at killing your foe.
__________________
"The chaos of the world viewed from a distance reveals perfection."- me

"Never overestimate the intellect of someone so foolish that they would exploit and perpetuate stupidity in the people around them, for they create their own damnation as they tear out and sell the pillars that support society as a whole, bringing it crashing down upon them."-me

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”- Einstein
Renatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 08:16 AM   #14
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Ture. I agree.
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 02:17 AM   #15
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus View Post
Training doesnt control what you define as friend or foe, it merely makes you better at killing your foe.

Who said anything about defining friend or foe. I'm talking about inbreds who have trouble spelling their own names shooting themselves or neighbors by accident because they have no idea how to properly hold a firearm much less use one.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 02:49 AM   #16
Renatus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in Wisconsin(thinking about invading the south)
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn View Post
Who said anything about defining friend or foe. I'm talking about inbreds who have trouble spelling their own names shooting themselves or neighbors by accident because they have no idea how to properly hold a firearm much less use one.
Well anyone who is that dumb isn't going to be stopped in their quest to kill themselves or others by taking away their gun. At least a gun is a more humane way to accidentally kill somone compared to their other options(Darwin awards). Not to mention if they really want a gun and have at least a high school diploma, they could always join the military, which could put the inbred in charge of a fully automatic weapon. Why not simply put as a condition of gun ownership that you have a high school diploma? If anything it would at least raise the average IQ of America.
__________________
"The chaos of the world viewed from a distance reveals perfection."- me

"Never overestimate the intellect of someone so foolish that they would exploit and perpetuate stupidity in the people around them, for they create their own damnation as they tear out and sell the pillars that support society as a whole, bringing it crashing down upon them."-me

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”- Einstein
Renatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 06:23 AM   #17
Joker_in_the_Pack
 
Joker_in_the_Pack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus View Post
Well anyone who is that dumb isn't going to be stopped in their quest to kill themselves or others by taking away their gun. At least a gun is a more humane way to accidentally kill somone compared to their other options(Darwin awards). Not to mention if they really want a gun and have at least a high school diploma, they could always join the military, which could put the inbred in charge of a fully automatic weapon. Why not simply put as a condition of gun ownership that you have a high school diploma? If anything it would at least raise the average IQ of America.
Dude, a Highschool Diploma means jack-diddly-clusterfucking squat. I've met students with MAs, MBs, and MSs that are more dense than day old fruitcake.
__________________
Because before too long there'll be nothing left alive, not a creature on the land or sea, a bird in the sky. They'll be shot, harpooned, eaten, and hunted too much, vivisected by the clever men who prove that there's no such things as a fair world with live and let live. The Royal family go hunting, what an example to give to the people they lead and that don't include me, I've seen enough pain and torture of those who can't speak...

- Tough Shit, Mickey by Conflict
Joker_in_the_Pack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 06:57 AM   #18
Renatus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Back in Wisconsin(thinking about invading the south)
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack View Post
Dude, a Highschool Diploma means jack-diddly-clusterfucking squat. I've met students with MAs, MBs, and MSs that are more dense than day old fruitcake.
Yeah I'm not saying it's an ultimate solution to idiots getting their hands on guns, but it's better than nothing, and better than a complete ban, at least in my eyes.
__________________
"The chaos of the world viewed from a distance reveals perfection."- me

"Never overestimate the intellect of someone so foolish that they would exploit and perpetuate stupidity in the people around them, for they create their own damnation as they tear out and sell the pillars that support society as a whole, bringing it crashing down upon them."-me

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”- Einstein
Renatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 07:47 AM   #19
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus View Post
Well anyone who is that dumb isn't going to be stopped in their quest to kill themselves or others by taking away their gun.
Not saying anyone is going to intentionally kill themselves. Militia movements are like magnets for Darwin award nominees. Idiots who think giant lizard aliens are posing as humans and running America stockpiling military weapons and running around in the woods preparing for this sort of thing are not the people you want having guns and running around anywhere.

Encouraging stupid people to act stupid and carry deadly weapons is just daft.

Militias are made up of white supremacists, wacko nut jobs, and of course, inbred hillbillies who need more chlorine in their gene pool. Not the kind of people you want to encourage to carry military grade firepower and run around anywhere.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 11:38 AM   #20
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus View Post
Yeah but you must remember the military=highly trained soldiers commanded by nutjobs. So pretty much all we have in the end is a higher percentage of organized nutjobs. Frankly I'd rather have organized nutjobs than a bunch of nutjobs going around on their own doing whatever they feel like at the moment.

As for the obcession with munitions, frankly it's the only thing we have left that can scare the government. As has been said many times before, a government NEEDS to be scared of it's people, not the other way around. Frankly do you really want people to be that scared of the government? Sure they wouldn't have guns... that never stopped Dauhmer, and people have a tendancy to go crazy when they're scared.
I'm just going to get on my high horse here and say you don't need a gun to suddenly have courage against your government, and its stupid to say so. They have tanks, dude. Your little hand gun is going to do fuck all in the face of organized government. Especially when a lot of other Americans like the government just fine. And like Sternn said look at the people advocating a militia, its all whackjobs and teabaggers and white supremacists. While I'm aware lots in the left want to organize their own militias, there is a bigger proportion of them who know that activism rather than futile violence and fear-mongering is far more effective.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 11:41 AM   #21
Deadmanwalking_05
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
I'm just going to get on my high horse here and say you don't need a gun to suddenly have courage against your government, and its stupid to say so. They have tanks, dude. Your little hand gun is going to do fuck all in the face of organized government. Especially when a lot of other Americans like the government just fine. And like Sternn said look at the people advocating a militia, its all whackjobs and teabaggers and white supremacists. While I'm aware lots in the left want to organize their own militias, there is a bigger proportion of them who know that activism rather than futile violence and fear-mongering is far more effective.
So what you're saying is,we should lay down and let them walk over us "Because they're going to anyway" right?
__________________
"The Answer To 1984 IS 1776"
I may be crazy to a few...but at least I'm Committed.


9x29mmR : The Choice Of Millions for the last 100-107 years.
Deadmanwalking_05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 12:00 PM   #22
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05 View Post
So what you're saying is,we should lay down and let them walk over us "Because they're going to anyway" right?
Where did I say that? Did I not advocate activism? What I'm saying is you're doing fuck all to solve the problem, if not making it worse by being a coward who needs to cling to guns and allow others to manipulate that fear.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 12:03 PM   #23
SweetJane
 
SweetJane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SO-IL
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Menace View Post
Oh lawdy lawd, we've been set an essay question!

I'm in the UK. I grew up in a household with guns - my father had shotguns, and I did clay pigeon shooting with shotguns and target shooting with sporting pistols as a kid. It was fun, although I was never a particularly good shot. Even so, I will never, ever understand this US obsession with munitions.

Haha, until this last week I've been living with a guy from Dublin... he's been here four years and the best thing we've said about it is that Americans see guns the way the rest of the world sees healthcare.


Oh, and Deadmanwalking, watch "The Take"... I thouroughly beleive that anyone who really is interested in the constitutionalism movement for the right reasons should learn about anarchosyndicalism. These people re-occupy factories and keep the cops away with slingshots. firepower is not as necessary as people think. Look through guerilla warfare manuals- guns AREN'T that necessary. It's about tactics and organization.
SweetJane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 12:53 PM   #24
Deadmanwalking_05
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,629
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya View Post
Where did I say that? Did I not advocate activism? What I'm saying is you're doing fuck all to solve the problem, if not making it worse by being a coward who needs to cling to guns and allow others to manipulate that fear.
So I should just lay down my guns and cower behind protest signs and other people?

What happens when those you protest get tired of hearing you protest?

I'm not condemning protesting as a form of changing things in the government,but I will add that protests will not work against a Government that see's nothing wrong with what it's doing (The last eight years in the U.S. for example).

The new President is looking a hell of a lot like the old President to me.
__________________
"The Answer To 1984 IS 1776"
I may be crazy to a few...but at least I'm Committed.


9x29mmR : The Choice Of Millions for the last 100-107 years.
Deadmanwalking_05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 01:15 PM   #25
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Yeah! Because he's totally killing hundreds of thousands of people and increasing inequality in the country too.
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:09 AM.