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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 10-22-2011, 12:46 AM   #51
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So, where is the Occupy movement going in the US? Any new major developments with it? Or is it pretty much just dead in the water, as I'd originally suspected it would be, seeing as how many city officials are beginning to make plans of forcing them to disperse.

Denver seems to have scared them off before they were able to really get gathered there, though that may be old news as I haven't heard anything new about it recently.

In some cities, they've been allowed to gather but any signs of them trying to camp in public parks will be met with fines and arrests.

It has spawned yet another movement, who call themselves the 53%, (in reference to the 53% of Americans who still pay taxes), claiming to be a middle ground between the tea party and the 99%, with a message to the Occupy protesters to "suck it up" and take more responsibility for themselves.

From various news blogs, it seems the Occupy movement is only serving to guarantee Obama will not be re-elected. Democrats are now trying to distance themselves from Occupy, when just a few weeks ago they were praising Occupy for its initiative.

It doesn't seem to have had the major momentum that was hoped for across the US, but is that simply because it's still too new, with no real organization?
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:58 AM   #52
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Still going strong in New York and many other major cities worldwide. I was down there yesterday.

Extremely organized and spirits are high, as we just won a standoff with the mayor and the police.

The 53% is a lie. Most of the pictures are actually stock photos taken from google with a letter photoshopped over them. Those who aren't fabricated really haven't proved anything except that there are poor people who vote against their own interests and actively hate other poor people.

Self-loathing among the oppressed coupled with submission to authority is not a new phenomenon, there are plenty of self-hating minorities Blacks, gays, Jews, etc.

They usually vote republican in America, and tell those who complain about miss-treatment, injustice, and in-equality to "stop whining" "you're making it worse for the rest of us" and so forth.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:15 AM   #53
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Just realized that sounds like I think the WHOLE minorty is self-loathing.

That's incorrect and stupid. What I meant was there are factions WITHIN many minorities which are self-hating, hence the pejorative term "Uncle Tom" which is used by the black community to criticize those members who engage in this sort of behavior.
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:55 PM   #54
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stand-off? cool. i will google it.

do you know if anyone in the US has tried to occupy any vacant factories or businesses? are there any plans for that? there are so many places that are shut down all across the country, it seems there's ground to start it. from restaurants to stores to factories. has anyone tried to do anything with them?
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:56 AM   #55
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I attended OWS on September 24th. When I was there it was only a few hundred people and, to be frank, I thought that the whole thing would shut down by the next Saturday. I learned some things that day.

1. Fruits and veggies are VERY HEAVY. I wonder if I should have just donated to their paypal. However my bad ideas are almost to the point of being the stuff of legend.

2. Using excessive police force to contain a protest is like trying to blow a good sized fire. You would think that if there was a Great Conspiracy that they would have figured this out by now.

3. These young political activists can literally run circles around me. I felt like I was 900 years old. But not in a cool vampire kind of way. More like a George Burns kind of way.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:13 AM   #56
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1. Fruits and veggies are VERY HEAVY. I wonder if I should have just donated to their paypal. However my bad ideas are almost to the point of being the stuff of legend.
1. I brought the sanitation work-group trash bags. I would have donated if I wasn't in the middle of moving to a new apartment and having to lay 3+ grand down just to get into the place.

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2. Using excessive police force to contain a protest is like trying to blow a good sized fire. You would think that if there was a Great Conspiracy that they would have figured this out by now.
People are dumb and emotional. The 1% is no exception. They probably could maintain their insane privilege with just a few concessions, but as we've seen with the Tea Party and the Right-Wing media, they'd rather scream "class warfare!" when we ask them to pay their damn taxes.

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3. These young political activists can literally run circles around me. I felt like I was 900 years old. But not in a cool vampire kind of way. More like a George Burns kind of way.
I was really amazed at how diverse OWS is. It spans age, race, class etc. These wonderful folks are diverse even by New York standards (and that's saying alot).
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:46 AM   #57
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1. I brought the sanitation work-group trash bags. I would have donated if I wasn't in the middle of moving to a new apartment and having to lay 3+ grand down just to get into the place.
Yeah. I'm in the same place. I'm moving on November 15. I get to control my own heat. Hooray!

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People are dumb and emotional. The 1% is no exception. They probably could maintain their insane privilege with just a few concessions, but as we've seen with the Tea Party and the Right-Wing media, they'd rather scream "class warfare!" when we ask them to pay their damn taxes.
Agreed. Although I think that they could have maintained their insane privilege if they had done nothing. Or they could have used one of the many ways the obnoxiously wealthy have used in history to make their status "ok"(I especially like how the Swiss do it by not flaunting it at all). Instead we get this.

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I was really amazed at how diverse OWS is. It spans age, race, class etc. These wonderful folks are diverse even by New York standards (and that's saying alot).
It's true. I've been planning to go back on a Saturday so I can see how it changed. This time, though, I won't be bringing anything else. It looks to me like they are good on stuff.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:12 AM   #58
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Bring industrial sized trash bags.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:03 PM   #59
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Our local Occupy called our African American mayor an "Uncle Tom" without a word of protest or complaint from within their ranks. My moral support is wavering.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:05 PM   #60
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But wolf moon, its okay to alienate minorities! Talking about it would only cloud the issue. What matters is the 99%. Which isn't black.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:07 PM   #61
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Wolf Moon, can you elaborate on that?

It might be a fair charge. What's going on?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:09 PM   #62
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But wolf moon, its okay to alienate minorities! Talking about it would only cloud the issue. What matters is the 99%. Which isn't black.
Saya, you're good a being a whistle blower. Congrats.

So... What's your solution to this? What are some things that MUST be done according to you?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:14 PM   #63
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Have you been following the Slut Walk thing? Everyone priased it as the revival of feminism, the fourth wave. Until two weeks ago when a dipshit in NYC marched with a sign that said "Women are the niggger of the world."

We had our complaints about Slut Walk. It assumed all women would be comfortable labelling themselves Sluts. While no one intentionally said women of colour weren't welcome, concerns of women of colour were dismissed. Its about solidarity! Then that happened, and nobody could really deny what a privileged group it was that was marching. The discourse around Slut Walk shifted as white women couldn't really deny privilege anymore.

So yeah, be really really really really really careful about who you call a traitor to their race. Especially if you're white. Remember how annoyed Doobie was that trust fund kids were telling him he was a traitor to the working class? Its kind of like that.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:15 PM   #64
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Wolf Moon, can you elaborate on that?

It might be a fair charge. What's going on?
...did you really just say that a public movement making a public statement containing a racist, derogatory insult might be a fair charge? Really?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:37 PM   #65
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...did you really just say that a public movement making a public statement containing a racist, derogatory insult might be a fair charge? Really?
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Uncle Tom is a derogatory term for a person who perceives themselves to be of low status, and is excessively subservient to perceived authority figures; particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people.
Uncle Tom is a racist statement. I suppose they could have just called him a Tory because... you know, authority knows best.

I don't agree with the usage. I'm asking WHY they called him that? Is it because the group there is racist or were they charging him with being dismissive and unsupportive of the movement such as the behavior mentioned by Wikipedia here?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:38 PM   #66
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Have you been following the Slut Walk thing? Everyone priased it as the revival of feminism, the fourth wave. Until two weeks ago when a dipshit in NYC marched with a sign that said "Women are the niggger of the world."

We had our complaints about Slut Walk. It assumed all women would be comfortable labelling themselves Sluts. While no one intentionally said women of colour weren't welcome, concerns of women of colour were dismissed. Its about solidarity! Then that happened, and nobody could really deny what a privileged group it was that was marching. The discourse around Slut Walk shifted as white women couldn't really deny privilege anymore.

So yeah, be really really really really really careful about who you call a traitor to their race. Especially if you're white. Remember how annoyed Doobie was that trust fund kids were telling him he was a traitor to the working class? Its kind of like that.
Yeah, cool. So again. I'm going to say that you're more qualified to know how best to approach this. Again. What's your solution?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:43 PM   #67
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Uncle Tom is a racist statement. I suppose they could have just called him a Tory because... you know, authority knows best.

I don't agree with the usage. I'm asking WHY they called him that? Is it because the group there is racist or were they charging him with being dismissive and unsupportive of the movement such as the behavior mentioned by Wikipedia here?
You're missing the point. Their motives (as yet undefined, as he hasn't actually DONE anything to them) are irrelevant. I'm responding the way they expressed themselves, and the underlying intent, perception, and divisiveness it demonstrates. Even if he had done something specific to make them feel the way they do, attacking him based on his race isn't the way to express their opinion. Attempting to justify it or assuming that perhaps there is some sort of explanation that would make it okay is so completely not something I'm going to play along with.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:45 PM   #68
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...did you really just say that a public movement making a public statement containing a racist, derogatory insult might be a fair charge? Really?
Just gonna mention that there's a huge difference between a racist and a racial statement.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:46 PM   #69
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Just gonna mention that there's a huge difference between a racist and a racial statement.
There is. And my word choice was deliberate.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:54 PM   #70
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I guess I'm going to have to take you on your word about Occupy Atlanta being a grassroots cadre of racists white people, Wolf Moon. In which, I agree with you. That's a bad move.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:56 PM   #71
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Is occupy Atlanta primarily white people? Atlanta is 80% Black, I would assume Occupy Atlanta would have similar demographics.

I myself have called people Uncle Toms for being part of a minority group and displaying self-hating behavior in conjunction with submission to authority. Does that make me racist?

Granted, I'd be careful using that term when referring to a black man, but only because I'm uncomfortable as a white man, bringing race into a critique on someone's character, but if Occupy Atlanta is primarily black there's nothing racist about it.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:03 PM   #72
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Is occupy Atlanta primarily white people? Atlanta is 80% Black, I would assume Occupy Atlanta would have similar demographics.
It doesn't.



This is generally what it's looked like every time I've walked past the park. Where they are currently camped out as a result of the executive order issued by the man they're insulting, in which he sympathizes with them, acknowledges their contribution to the long history of civil rights protest in Atlanta, and forbids police interference with all peaceful protest.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:08 PM   #73
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Yeah, cool. So again. I'm going to say that you're more qualified to know how best to approach this. Again. What's your solution?
Include an intersectional dialogue and make sure the voices of minorities and women are heard. And brush up on activist theory and history, or you're just going to repeat the same mistakes.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:09 PM   #74
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I see blacks, whites, asians, and there may be some latinos in there too.

So yeah, sure. It was a racist statement and a stupid one at that if he sympathizes with their cause. Clearly they're a bunch of idiots.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:11 PM   #75
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Include an intersectional dialogue and make sure the voices of minorities and women are heard. And brush up on activist theory and history, or you're just going to repeat the same mistakes.
Apparently, that stuff actually happens in The People's Think Tank in Zuccotti Park. Maybe everyone else is just doing it wrong.
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