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Old 10-20-2011, 01:47 AM   #1
CptSternn
 
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Study Says Most Women Are Bisexual

http://www.darkangels.net/showthread.php?t=144

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Like most women, I have no shame in admitting that I find other females attractive. I have even admitted to being open to experimentation ("Of course I would sleep with Halle Berry! It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity"). For women, it's perfectly acceptable to be a little bi-curious (cue every male fantasy), and according to the latest research, it's the norm.

A new study reveals that women's sexual preferences tend to be a gray area (yep, identity confusion wasn't just for those college dorm days). In fact, researchers at Boise State University found that in a group of heterosexual women, 60 percent were sexually attracted to other women, 45 percent had kissed a woman, and 50 percent had fantasies about the same sex.

I fall into that 60 percent.

Sometimes when I catch myself staring at a beautiful woman in the grocery store, I wonder about my own sexuality. I'm not supposed to like girls! (At least according to society.) Would I date a woman? I'm not sure, but I am attracted to the beauty of other women — and they're so much easier to understand psychologically than men. We girls form deep relationships through friendships, which some say are the basis of love. And personally I believe that emotional connection and physical attraction are linked — i.e., guys tend to get cuter in our eyes if they're genuinely nice.

Experts support this view. "Women are encouraged to be emotionally close to each other," says psychology professor Elizabeth Morgan. "That provides an opportunity for intimacy and romantic feelings to develop." From talking about personal issues for hours to calling each other "lovers" (well, maybe that's just women in my generation), women's friendships are often barely distinguishable from romantic relationships.

When otherwise heterosexual women fall for other women, emotional connection is usually at the core. Lisa Diamond from the University of Utah points out that many people, with the right person or under the right circumstances, are willing to consider being in a relationship with someone who falls outside their usual "type" (think: the 2001 hit comedy Kissing Jessica Stein).

Does that make them bisexual? Not exactly.

"You can still be heterosexual and have interests, experiences or fantasies with the same sex," says Morgan.

And of course, the media plays a role in girl-on-girl attraction, only fueling the fire of our confusion. Not only have pop stars like Lady Gaga made bisexuality mainstream, but women can't help but ogle beautiful women — they are everywhere we turn. Neuroscientist Ogi Ogas, Ph.D., analyzed more than a billion web searches, half a billion search histories and millions of erotic websites and e-books, and found that women are just as likely to search for "sexy pictures of Ryan Gosling" as "sexy pictures of Jessica Alba." How about that.

In addition, sexuality gets more, not less, fluid as time goes on — yet more proof that experimentation isn't just for college. In a study conducted by Diamond, the older a woman was, the more likely she was to choose "unlabeled" as her sexuality. "We have this idea that sexuality gets clearer and more defined as time goes on," says Diamond. "We consider that a sign of maturity to figure out who you are. I've seen it's really the opposite."

"Women in the media are often sexualized and women constantly get the message that appearance should be important to them, so they're used to viewing women in a sexualized way," says Morgan.

I wonder how much of the attraction to other women is based on appearance and messages from the media, and how much of it authentic and genuine. Should we even try to distinguish between the two?
Gigity.
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:36 PM   #2
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Why don't they do this study on men? Oh wait....it's not 'cool' for guys to be gay or bi.

I think studies like this are extremely misleading. I'm as likely to find a GLBTQ person attractive as I am to find a hetero man or woman attractive. I think that's probably the case for more people than society realizes.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:33 PM   #3
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I'm not bicurious, I'm bifurious.

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Why don't they do this study on men? Oh wait....it's not 'cool' for guys to be gay or bi.
I think most men are far from totally straight too, but there's a lot more social stigma around male "experimentation", not saying queer women don't face homophobia but it serves raunch culture and the male gaze to be bisexual/bicurious/mostly straight, as long as same sex experiences are eventually dismissed and considered inferior to sex with men.

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I think studies like this are extremely misleading. I'm as likely to find a GLBTQ person attractive as I am to find a hetero man or woman attractive. I think that's probably the case for more people than society realizes.
Right, and bisexuality is a means of identity. If someone doesn't believe themselves to be bisexual, its bullshit to say they are when its not part of their identity. I read an article not long ago that "mostly straight" is becoming a popular way to identify oneself, and this study nor even the term "bisexuality" really addresses attraction to those outside the gender binary.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:44 PM   #4
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Right, and bisexuality is a means of identity.
I've always wanted to ask you something and this is the perfect time.
You say bisexuality is a means of identity, as opposed to a specific sexual preference?
I ask this because I do not like the idea of sexuality as a fluid line from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and tend to prefer the concept of a thousand different sexualities, contextually defined and few dealing with genitality. The thing is, such an approach poses a challenge to the idea that homosexuality is something you're born with, to different extents depending how one interprets it.
What's your opinion?
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:23 PM   #5
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I've always wanted to ask you something and this is the perfect time.
You say bisexuality is a means of identity, as opposed to a specific sexual preference?
Absolutely, again a lot of people don't interpret their sexuality as "bisexual" even if they're attracted to both cisgender men and women. The word implies almost that there is equal attraction between two sexes. So when so many people feel mostly straight, or mostly gay, or feel the word doesn't include attraction to other gender options, or fall outside the gender binary themselves, the word is inadequate as a description of their sexuality. Sexuality for a lot of people is a lot more complicated than "straight, gay or bisexual".

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I ask this because I do not like the idea of sexuality as a fluid line from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and tend to prefer the concept of a thousand different sexualities, contextually defined and few dealing with genitality. The thing is, such an approach poses a challenge to the idea that homosexuality is something you're born with, to different extents depending how one interprets it.
What's your opinion?
I think too often the discussion around homosexuality revolves around whether its natural or not. Its curious to know, but at the same time, whether you're born that way or not, whether its "natural" or not, shouldn't really mean anything when it comes to what kind of sexual behavior is ethical or not. If it was a choice, so fucking what? It used to be something I grappled with; I COULD just stick to dating men, and never have to worry about homophobia. For me, was it a choice, and therefore less valid, less ethical than a person who was born gay and could never consider passing for straight? Homosexuality viewed as something natural does have its benefits for the queer community, how can you try to change someone when its part of their nature? We were just born this way. But I kinda feel sometimes that gets translated into "they can't help being deviants, they were born that way." Essentialism shouldn't be the saving grace of LGBTQ.

I think for some people, absolutely their sexuality is part of what comes naturally for them. I'm sure there's straight people who are not at all attracted to people of the same sex, and gay people who are not at all attracted to people of the opposite sex. But there is definitely a sexual script that we follow, and the dominant one values heterosexuality above all else, as the definitive model for other sexualities. And its a very difficult job to figure out what you genuinely feel, what you genuinely like and are attracted to, and what you've been raised to think you what you feel.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:47 PM   #6
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I'm not bicurious, I'm bifurious.
You know, when I first read that, I read "I'm not bicurious, I'm bifocal" and giggled a bit.


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I think most men are far from totally straight too, but there's a lot more social stigma around male "experimentation", not saying queer women don't face homophobia but it serves raunch culture and the male gaze to be bisexual/bicurious/mostly straight, as long as same sex experiences are eventually dismissed and considered inferior to sex with men.
I think people around here make too many "I think" statements in way that suggests they think it equals a statement of fact. Also, that was a very long sentence.
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Old 10-21-2011, 01:05 AM   #7
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I think people around here make too many "I think" statements in way that suggests they think it equals a statement of fact.
I think you're picking at statements because something you can't articulate bothers you.
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Old 10-21-2011, 01:07 AM   #8
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Hmmm ... you might have a point.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:47 AM   #9
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Hmmm ... you might have a point.
You mean you think he might have a point.

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I've always wanted to ask you something and this is the perfect time.
You say bisexuality is a means of identity, as opposed to a specific sexual preference?
I ask this because I do not like the idea of sexuality as a fluid line from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and tend to prefer the concept of a thousand different sexualities, contextually defined and few dealing with genitality. The thing is, such an approach poses a challenge to the idea that homosexuality is something you're born with, to different extents depending how one interprets it.
What's your opinion?
This.
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:39 PM   #10
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This was a useful post and I think it is rather easy to see from the other comments as well that this post is well written and useful. I bookmarked this blog a while ago because of the useful content and I am never being disappointed. Keep up the good work.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:09 AM   #11
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Aww... our work is being graded by spambots now. How cute.

But, back to the thread...

I've always referred to myself as a lesbian or dyke, but this does not necessarily mean that I am only attracted to women. In certain contexts I find myself not only attracted to men, but ONLY attracted to men. This confused me for a long time, because I didn't (and still don't) identify as being bisexual.

Although I have adjusted my view now, I used to think that someone who identified as bisexual had an equal attraction to male and female, and I knew that this wasn't the way that I viewed my sexuality.

I like the term pansexual, because it has a space within it for a fluid and organic growth of my sexuality, it also doesn't cater to the idea of a gender binary - and as someone who doesn't feel that they fit into that binary, and who finds themselves attracted to people who aren't cis-gendered (not because they aren't cis-gendered - I don't fetishize gender diversity, but because I am blessed to know a number of trans*, non-gendered and intersex people who are totes amazing and very lickable!) I find this term very helpful.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:31 AM   #12
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:36 AM   #13
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Aww... our work is being graded by spambots now. How cute.

But, back to the thread...

I've always referred to myself as a lesbian or dyke, but this does not necessarily mean that I am only attracted to women. In certain contexts I find myself not only attracted to men, but ONLY attracted to men. This confused me for a long time, because I didn't (and still don't) identify as being bisexual.

Although I have adjusted my view now, I used to think that someone who identified as bisexual had an equal attraction to male and female, and I knew that this wasn't the way that I viewed my sexuality.

I like the term pansexual, because it has a space within it for a fluid and organic growth of my sexuality, it also doesn't cater to the idea of a gender binary - and as someone who doesn't feel that they fit into that binary, and who finds themselves attracted to people who aren't cis-gendered (not because they aren't cis-gendered - I don't fetishize gender diversity, but because I am blessed to know a number of trans*, non-gendered and intersex people who are totes amazing and very lickable!) I find this term very helpful.
I like the idea of pansexualism because of that too, I definitely don't have an equal amount of attraction to men or women and I definitely am attracted to people who don't belong to the gender binary. But it has the problem that people are like "huh?" when you say it, and I dunno, just still doesn't fit me. I think my ideas of who I'm attracted to have changed dramatically (I used to identify as "mostly straight" but I've since realized I don't have a whole lot of interest in men, Versus being an exception, it just took me years of dealing with internalized homophobia/biphobia to come to that realization), so I just identify as "queer" and leave it at that. The term is flexible enough so I don't have to feel like there's a definition I have to meet qualifications for, and I don't have to constantly analyze myself as my tastes evolve.
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #14
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I totes understand what you mean. I have gotten the following on more than a few occassions, and it used to bug me but now just makes me laugh:

Them: So... what *are* you?
Me: I'm queer.
Them: Queer as in strange?
Me: Very.

I have a friend who just puts the word 'rather' in front of which ever way they are feeling at that point in time... 'rather gay', 'rather straight', rather bi'. That makes for some fabulous overheard conversations in the pub.

'Queer' has real political connotations here. It is almost like you are declaring yourself part of some militantly activist collective when you use the term... which is just another reason to use it for me. Aside from the militant part, I can't really pull off olive drab - it washes out my skin tone.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:59 AM   #15
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Uh-huh.

Okay, apparently, I'm the only one in here with any scientific training at all. Because I'm not seeing the key words of "peer reviewed" anywhere there. Guess what that means? It means no one has tried to replicate the results. Which means for right this second, that's all so many sugar plums dancing in your heads.

As for Dr. Ogas, where did they get their doctorate? The internet? I don't see any mention of that so-called neuroscientist actually doing any real science. How do they know what they were searching for those pictures for? Were they actually using them for a sexual fantasy? You can't just look at results like that and draw your own conclusions, especially not with neuroscience. Motivations, personal history, all of that has to be explored.

You want to see some real work on human sexuality, look up Dr. Ivanka Savic-Berglund and the Stockholm Brain Institute. They're doing these things called "experiments" with other people, known as "scientists".
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:09 AM   #16
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Uh-huh.

Okay, apparently, I'm the only one in here who is a pretentious wank.
There, I fixed it for you.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:13 AM   #17
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There, I fixed it for you.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:40 AM   #18
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There, I fixed it for you.
Awwwwww, what a cute little thing you are. I feel so bad when people aren't clever enough to actually think of responses to flaws I point out. What's wrong, did I use too many big words?

Let me simplify it:

Study cites no "peer review". That means study means nothing right now.

Nice lady Savic-Berglund does actual peer-reviewed work. That means her work is le-git-i-mate. Legitimate is a big ol' word that means "can be trusted a bit more". And she's managed to find proof that sexuality is in fact a physical thing, which is great for gay rights, because it proves it's not a choice. Whereas studies that use BS research methods just cause problems.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:45 AM   #19
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Which study are you taking about? Ogas didn't do the study they're talking about. if you're disputing her expertise, Lisa Diamond has lots of published, peer review research that supports the survey. This isn't anything new by a long shot.

Also, are you saying biseuxality is a choice and therefore immoral?
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:09 AM   #20
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Ogas was quoted in the article. Ogas did poor research. This was pointed out, and someone felt the need to act like I did something terrible.

I didn't say fuck all about Diamond, and when I look her up, she has several papers on the nature of sexuality and gender that she co-wrote published in some very nice journals. Good for her. It means her research cited is probably not complete BS. However, she is a psychologist. As such she uses methods that while interesting, and often great for forming working hypotheses, cannot actually be physically proven, for the most part. Psychologists are great for behavioral analysis, and the problem with that is that behavior often has a war of nature vs. nurture. Are women being reported as bisexual because they have a sexual reaction towards women, or do they perceive women as being sexually beautiful because a beautiful woman is the current society's ideal? Is that true bisexuality, as in, they were like that when they were born, or is a learned behavior, as in, our society perceives women as being beautiful in a sexual manner and they have learned that since childhood, so they believe it as adults?

That is the nature of a psychologist's work in sexuality. As such, studies done by psychologists making statements like this make a person leery, and can end up opening up room for bigots to start calling gays "deluded and practicing learned behavior" the minute one psychologist says anything that hints at it.

A neuroscientist, on the other hand, is supposed to do actual work, which is why Ogas' reference here irritates me. The research appears shoddy and mistrustful. Dr. Savic-Berglund on the other hand, has proven a difference in left and right lobe size for women who are heterosexual and women who are homosexual. She also did work with pheromones that laid a lot of groundwork for an actual hypotheses of sexuality, of all kinds, being a physical thing. Not a learned behavior or choice. Ogas' work can cause problems.

Boise State's research, also referenced, is just that. Research. And there's not enough cited in the article for me to discern how exactly they came to the conclusions they did, how long the study was, how they chose candidates, and whether or not anyone else has managed to replicate the results. And to be honest, I don't feel like looking it up and poring over it until I can. I can say that I haven't seen statistics that high stated anywhere else, and there are a lot of universities doing the exact same research. Sexuality is a topic that has been raked over for years, especially homosexuality and bisexuality. It's a very divisive subject, and gets research grants pretty easily.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:13 AM   #21
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So if brains are different in heterosexual and homosexual women, what about Diamond's reserach that shows that most people who identify as heterosexual have same sex attraction, and you're taking their word on it as a scientist that your subject is in fact heterosexual when its not something easily defined?

And do queer women, bisexual women, unlabeled women, have different brain structures? All this is implying is that heterosexuality isn't the norm, its the mandate.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:58 AM   #22
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:05 AM   #23
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This Article: Different people like and dislike different things in different ratios and contexts and for different reasons.

And this line:
""You can still be heterosexual and have interests, experiences or fantasies with the same sex," says Morgan."

...Well duh, I just assumed that was obvious to anyone who was at all sincere with the emotional, sexual, and social turbulence of puberty

Personally I don't think the sexualization of women in media affects the situation more than normalizing varying forms of sexual expression, period, for better or worse. Theoretically the sexualization of men should then normalize same-sex ideas in men and maybe combat the stigma. That normalization doesn't birth non-existent dispositions or augment preexisting dispositions, I imagine, but instead should just give the person breathing room to develop appropriately within their life and climate.

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Old 04-12-2012, 07:48 AM   #24
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This Article: Different people like and dislike different things in different ratios and contexts and for different reasons.

And this line:
""You can still be heterosexual and have interests, experiences or fantasies with the same sex," says Morgan."

...Well duh, I just assumed that was obvious to anyone who was at all sincere with the emotional, sexual, and social turbulence of puberty

Personally I don't think the sexualization of women in media affects the situation more than normalizing varying forms of sexual expression, period, for better or worse. Theoretically the sexualization of men should then normalize same-sex ideas in men and maybe combat the stigma. That normalization doesn't birth non-existent dispositions or augment preexisting dispositions, I imagine, but instead should just give the person breathing room to develop appropriately within their life and climate.

# Assertions with No Evidence
# This is Now Twitter

Also, fucking bots revive topics and I only realize after I type up something I WANT to post. Screw it, post ahoy!
Hasn't sexualization of men and boys caused increased expression of bisexuality in men, historically? Like in Roman times it was technically illegal for two freeborn men to be in love, but pederasty was okay and so was having a male slave concubine. The concubines were pretty sexualized and prized, and even handed down as inheritances.

I think most people are on the bisexual spectrum, but internalized homophobia is really hard to overcome sometimes. Heterosexuality is probably common, but not the norm.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:06 AM   #25
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i think that more people has to read this blog which is very good.
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