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Music Finally, an entire forum devoted to talking about Doktor Avalanche, the drum machine for the Sisters of Mercy. You can talk about other bands, or other members of that band, too, if you want to be UNCOOL.

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Old 02-09-2006, 08:38 AM   #1
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need help finding new bands to listen to

hey everyone i need help finding new bands that have a little goth in their music but not that much i already listen to as i lay dieing and agony scene but im looking for some more bands like them.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:04 AM   #2
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Tiger Army, Horror Pops, Flowing Tears, Jack Off Jill, My Bloody Valentine, The Birthday Massacre, Switchblade Symphony, Rasputina, Skinny Puppy, Pucisfer, Nightwish, i Am ghost, (I hope I dont get flamed for this) HIM, (Not Very Goth) Muse...Thats all thats coming to me right now, I can probably give you much more later when i'm not so sleepy.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:09 AM   #3
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Damnit...Sorry I should've read your post closer, I dont think any of those bands is like Agony Scene or As I Lay Dying...sorry, heres another list: The Unseen, Atreyu, Aiden, (I lied, this one works) i Am ghost, The Black Delihla (Sp?) Murdur, From Autumn to Ashes, Fall of Troy, (To a lesser extent) Opeth. Sorry, i'm not really sure if this is what you meant by similar to those two bands, hope you enjoy these bands regardless.
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:06 AM   #4
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Though I think it's pretty inept of you not to be able to go scouring the internet for new bands, I will give some pointers nonetheless. Even if metalcore is a genre chock full of really boring and unoriginal bands.

Generally I'm more into real emo (screamo), hardcore and post-hardcore stuff, but I listen to some metalcore at times, too. Here is some nicely abrasive music to stuff your ears with:

Converge is definitely the most essential and influential of those bands. Super chaotic and dark without the use of cheesy synths or anything.

Misery Signals are really good, check out their "Of Malice and the Magnum Heart" album.

From Autumn to Ashes' "Too Bad You're Beautiful" album. (Their new stuff is way too slick MTV-emo for my tastes).

Still Remains are also very good, and manage to incorporate a little bit of singing in a way that's not too over-the-top with the emo harmonies.

And Lackluster, the correct spelling of that name you were uncertain about is The Black Dahlia Murder, referring to the brutal killing of a famous Hollywood transvestite in the 30's or early 40's, I think. There's even a book about it, which is supposedly quite good, if you're into 'true crime' stuff. The band is not too bad either.

Ok, that's basically what I can think of right now. Hit me up if you ever get into real hardcore or emo, though, because that's more in my area of expertise.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:14 AM   #5
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I'll try again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Weller
filesharing is legal from a non profit organization or something that is licensed to or something like that...

anyway, the files aren't coming from this IP. but if you'd like copies of random stuff i can definitely give you the username. thanks though xnguela, i usually suffer from mild paranoia.
Do you actually believe that? I mean really, honestly believe that?

Who fed you that bullshit? Cause you need to slap them. Hard.

As Xnguela stated, unless you're sending songs that you created, and you do not have a prior contract with somebody else to promote/distribute your work, then file sharing is NOT legal, no matter what organization you claim to be a part of, nor what format the file is in. Whether it be music, movies, photos, art, writing, etc.

When you buy a cd, it does not make that cd yours, much less yours to do with as you please. All it does is grant you a limited license to listen to that cd at your leisure, for your own personal use, and to make a limited number of back-up copies of it, within reason, for safe keeping. It does not, in any way shape or form, entitle you to distribute copies of either individual songs, nor the entire album, for free or otherwise, to anybody else, whether its one person or a thousand other people, in any manner, ever.

Radio stations pay for licenses to broadcast the music they play on that station. Night clubs and bars pay for a license to play music in their establishment, and/or for a dj to play/mix that music and perform it in said establishment. If the club and/or the dj don't have licenses to play that music, they're breaking the law. This topic came up a while back in this forum, when someone else was promoting their own personal mix mp3's. And somebody stated that it was "ok" because dj's are allowed to make their own mixes. No, its not okay. And unless that dj has permission from each and every artist whose music he's mixing, he's breaking the law as soon as he shares that mix file with one other person.

Granted, the chances for the average file sharing pc user getting caught are slim at the moment, but know this. The FTC [and/or/both] the FBI take file sharing very seriously, and have teams of people whose only purpose is to do nothing but scour the internet tracing and tracking IP addresses, looking for people uploading files to other people. They have been forcing ISPs to hand over 'confidential' lists of their customers whose bandwidth exceeds what they consider to be 'normal' usage.Don't think that you're hidden behind a firewall, or that because the files you're sharing are stored on another computer/server, that you can't or won't get caught. And when you do get caught (because it's really a case of when now, not if), you'll be facing a sentence of 3 years in prison AND (somewhere between) $10,000 to $25,000 for EACH offense. Because its no different than walking into a music store and walking out with a cd or an armload of cds that you didn't pay for.

But, do as you wish. It's none of my business, really. Just giving you fair warning, so that you know the risks you're taking. You can't claim ignorance anyway when they come knocking because the FTC's opinion of it is that its your responsibility to know the law.

It seems odd that a site like this doesn't have some sort of copyright infringement guidelines/laws/notices somewhere on it, considering the volume of writers and other artists that are here, and considering the ramifications that come with it, for both the site and its users. And yet copyrights are broken every time somebody simply posts an image that they didn't create, in any of these threads, or even uses that image as their avatar thumbnail.
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Old 02-13-2006, 05:15 AM   #6
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Who cares if it's illegal? It's an essential way for music to spread around, and generates publicity for underground acts that don't have a blanket distribution of their albums. What the hell does an organization like the RIAA know about good music? Nothing but figures and statistics. Which again will show that filesharing creates attention around the artists it tries to protect.

It all comes down to whether you're able to remain conscientious enough to still find a way to support the bands/artists you feel deserve it. If you have three or four albums by a band, maybe been to a concert, I see no problem with downloading out-of-print and hard to obtain stuff by them. I have kept (mostly) independent record labels with donut-money for years, and will continue to do so gladly, so what's the harm if I check out some of their new additions to the stable? Or get some ridiculously rare 7inch by a long-defunct band from a person on a file-sharing program?

Or what about albums that sell or have sold a lot of units? A lot of stuff that gets downloaded is by artists on bloated budgets, on big record labels. Which is, ironically, those who are most likely to be litigiously inclined.

But why would you want to download a Black-Eyed Peas-record anyway, right?
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:19 AM   #7
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What about thsoe artists who don't sell their albums anymore?

I was looking for a copy of a Vanity6 album recently and they're out of production. They won't get a cent even if I legitimitely buy a used album for $22.00 off someone on Amazon.

Who does it hurt if I download 'Nasty Girls' off the internet?
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:36 AM   #8
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if an artist doesn't sell their album anymore, that's their right, as the creator of that album. there's many reasons that an album goes out of print. usually its because its dated and has lost its value in the eyes of its record label/company, making it more costly to keep producing, than it generates in sales. sometimes artists deliberately have their albums pulled due to their own decisions or personal reasons. sometimes they do it in order to deliberately make it difficult to obtain, in order to re-release it later, maybe as part of a collection. but that's a marketing gimic. whatever their reasons, its their material, under contract with whoever they hired to promote their work. which makes it their right to decide what is done with that material.

As long as its a legitimate copy of that used album, and not a bootleg you're buying from someone on amazon, then there's nothing wrong with it. and as long as whoever you're buying it from isn't keeping a copy of that same album, for themselves, (meaning, they copy the cd and then turn around and sell the original) then there's nothing wrong with it. the artist has already made their money on the original sale of that album. when someone on amazon sells you the original, they're selling their license to use it. which technically makes their keeping a self-generated copy of it also illegal. but that's getting down to nit-picky bullshit, and that sort of thing is generally projected and incorporated into the retail costs of cds.

Everything you download has a copyright that somebody owns. So when you download it, you're hurting the owner of that copyright, even tho it might just be a little bit. pocket change, if that. Unless that artist has created something with the intention of freely distributing it, that's one less sale he or she will make because you stole a copy of it from where ever you downloaded it, making you the one in the wrong. Even artists/musicians/etc that create stuff intentionally for free still have a legal right as its creator to decide where and how that material is distributed and can prosecute you if you decide to violate those guidelines.

Say some local band has a web site that they upload their songs to and allow anybody that registers at their site, or just visits their site, to download all their songs for free. That's their right. If you come along and decide to upload their content to your site and let anybody come along and download from you, and you haven't gotten that band's permission to do so, you're still violating their copyright. Chances are they wouldn't say shit, cause all you're really doing is promoting their material for them, giving them more exposure, but if they decided to, for whatever reason, maybe they just don't like you, or don't agree with the rest of the content on your site and don't want their name associated with it. they could take legal action against you, usually starting with something like a cease and decist order.

And yes, file sharing does help to promote the little guy, and usually those little guys know this, and come up with their own ways of letting their fans share their work so that their name and material spreads further.

As for the bigger names with bloated budgets, every song you steal from them is one less sale they have the legal right to make as the creator of that content, deflating their budget that much more. That concept is no different than me looking at you and saying you have a billion dollars, so if i sneak in and swife 50 grand, you'll never miss it, you've got a billion dollars, so what's the harm in that? it doesn't make it any less illegal.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:09 AM   #9
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i dont much care that file sharing is not legal i still do so so dont try to make me stop.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:33 AM   #10
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I don't care about most mainstream bands. I want their money-bags to shrivel, if only just so there is a slightly lesser chance of their music surviving past the amount of time I've managed to keep it out of my ears. I don't download music from big record labels.

But still, take U2, a huge band who has been around for decades. The Cure, also. What does it matter if a fraction of their potential buyers download their newest album? Are they gonna starve, from the measly few cents of profit they would have gotten from each CD? No, it's just the record company who starts shaking in their pants because then maybe they won't be able to afford those promotional ashtrays for their new shitty boyband or whatever. The music industry is fucking corrupt, and I wouldn't pee on those A&R guys if they were on fire. They don't care about music, only the pimping aspect of it.

What I am talking about is: As an incurable music nerd, I am first and foremost interested in procuring strange and hard-to-get music. Now maybe this goes over your head, but if I want a copy of the only cassette demo of some old Russian black metal band, or a hardcore record from 1995 that was only released on brown vinyl, in 3000 copies - no fucking law is going to stop me. And I'll certainly not pay 400$ or whatever on Ebay. I often buy records after downloading them, if it's at all possible to get them. Unfortunately, Norway is not exactly flush with independent record stores, so...

Your arguments, ED, obviously doesn't come from the perspective of a music lover.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:35 AM   #11
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And jokerman, did you check out those metalcore albums I recommended earlier?! Woohoo, go do it!
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:58 AM   #12
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Nor does your argument come from someone who respects the efforts of their fellow artist, or their favorite musician, obviously.

I'm not arguing, you do what you want. I'm simply stating the facts. And copyright laws are international, so it doesn't matter what country you live in, the same laws apply.

I agree that record companies are bloated piggy banks, trying to make a killing off of every sale, to stuff their own pockets, to promote their latest, pathetic excuse for another boy band craze. I can't stand that shit. They're nothing but talentless stage dummies with pretty faces, and usually even that is questionable. Regardless. I am a music lover. And I've done my share of file sharing in the past. Doesn't make it right. When you download an illegal copy of that obscure limited edition release from your favorite band, from 15 years ago, you're still disrespecting that band, even if it is just a few cents. They had their own reasons for making it a limited edition.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder
When you download an illegal copy of that obscure limited edition release from your favorite band, from 15 years ago, you're still disrespecting that band, even if it is just a few cents. They had their own reasons for making it a limited edition.
Yeah, their reasons being that their record label, or the band themselves, couldn't afford to press more than 3 - 5000 copies.

And see, I don't have one favorite band, I have more like 600. So it gets a little hard narrowing it down. If the predatory nerd in me wants a record I can't physically get at that particular time, damn right I'll help myself. Once again you completely ignore the human aspect of the equation, i.e. my dependency on interesting music, and my being a poor p.t. working student, not having the money or physical channels (stores) to secure a steady supply of it. Instead you're hiding behind some amoral law-riding bullshit to prove something, I don't know what. I've spent more time in record stores than you have getting irate over petty concerns (ok, maybe not more than three years combined), so don't try to tell me I don't support the bands I love.

What is it with your hard-on for the law anyway? Wasn't there once a band who made a song called "Breaking the Law", which was actually considered a cool song?! Since when did that change? Is Huey Lewis and the News suddenly back in style now?

Maybe I'm just a freedom-lover, 'cause I don't get it.
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Weller
im not a total jerk... ...another way to avoid being caught downloading or sharing is war driving. using a wireless NIC card with a laptop, go somewhere with a wireless network and bum their net.

it works itself out, or something.
lol. That statement right there, makes you a total jerk. and a criminal. and an idiot to boot. because not only are you admitting to stealing music left and right, but also using network hacking to do so, which opens a completely different can of legal worms. man, i wish i could be there when the feds came knocking. that'd truly be a kodak moment. or something but whatever. do as you wish
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:18 PM   #15
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Ok, for those who think it's completely cool to sue 13-year old girls to set some hard-ass example, and don't care about internet privacy - link to an article which explains what organisation it is you're siding with, and how the record industry works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA

That's just not goth. Not goth at all.
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:49 PM   #16
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Existential Disorder-as somebody who knows a whole shitload of people in bands (a few of them being quite popular), I can (and will) speak for them on the issue of file-sharing-YOU happen to be a dipshit about it. Do you know how much bands make off record sales? Not very much. Usually, the band will make a half a penny off the sale of a $16 CD (unless they're on a smaller label. Then, dependant on the contract, the profits are distributed more fairly). This also goes for sales of songs via I-tunes and other "legitimate" file-sharing sites. See, most of the money goes to the record label and distributors (which is why smaller labels can put out cheaper CDs-less overhead from an artificially-neccessary distribution system). So if you're "stealing" music via file-sharing, the only peoiple you happen to be fucking over are record labels, NOT the bands (unless the band is on a smaller label. Because 9 times out of 10, those labels will actually post songs on their own websites, knowing that this is a quick and fairly inexpensive way to create a buzz for a band).

No, if you really support a band, go see them play live. THIS is where bands make the money they eat and pay rent with.





as for cool bands to check out-TV On The Radio (imagine a Motown influenced Joy Division) have been playing a whole lot at my bar lately. Same as Throbbing Gristle (the very first industrial band), Silver Apples (weird early electronic/industrial band which are drumbeats, throbbing pulsing "BEEP" noises, and out of tune vocals), the Cranes (the band Rasputina wishes they could be), Broadcast (the best electronic band in the world right now. A mixture of 60's British Chick Pop and early industrial/avant-garde), and The Walkmen (a cross between hipster-mod and early Cure with a dash of Glam-Pop thrown in).
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:22 PM   #17
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The record industry is only a part of it. I know a good bit about the RIAA, and what I don't know I can easily find, so i don't need you providing me with links. It's not just about stealing music from fat ass rich fucks sitting in their executive suite offices in some high-rise los angeles building, coming up with new ideas to force the next n'sync down the general population's throats and convince us that this is the music we should be listening to. In fact, tho they're the ones with the biggest mouths about it, they're the ones who actually suffer from it the least, while the little guy whose struggling to live off the sales of his work takes all the blows.

Let me try explaining this another way. Forget about music for a second. Take file sharing in general. Because even tho music is the first thing that comes to mind when most people hear the terms file sharing or p2p, it's not, by a long shot, the only thing that's being stolen, not even close.

I know and work with a lot of other artists who create original 3rd party content for 3d applications. Mostly its 3d models and 2d texture maps for those models, but a lot of that work also consists of just about anything from source photos to background images, 3rd party plug-ins, python scripts, brushes, utilities, animation/voice simulators, etc,. You have no idea how much time, energy and effort that goes into the creation of just one of these packages, and you probably don't even give a shit either. The point is, these artists, (unlike the money-hungry record companies and mainstream bands), are not backed by or contracted with huge companies willing to stuff their pockets for their labors. Most of them - and I do mean most, as in a good 90% or more - are completely, 100% on their own. They work in small groups sometimes, but usually alone, spending days, weeks and even months, perfecting every detail of their latest model, making sure the textures are as close to perfection as they can get, then they turn around and sell it to other artists for use in still images or animation, or both, for nominal fees of anywhere between 10 and 20 bucks. Sometimes as much as 100, for something extremely elaborate like another fully functioning figure or some other prop/model. And of the various merchant sites that they sell their content through, they get on average 40 to 50% of the total sales. At most, about 60%, if they're exclusive to one site. And if they work with another artist to create that package, then that 50% they get from that sale has to be divided between the two of them, or 3, or however many others that contributed to the creation of that package, because the merchant site is still going to get their 50% of that total straight off the top, before anybody else gets a dime. Some artists run and sell through their own websites, thus avoiding the merchant site middle man all together, and allowing for greater returns on individual sales. But for the majority of them, the costs of advertising and running a website is either not worth it at the moment, or not feasible, considering it would cut into even more of their income and add to the already rather costly expense that goes into making a living off of this. As it is, the programs that an artist needs to create the various components they're trying to sell are rather damned expensive, generally, in terms of several hundred to a few thousand dollars per application. So any extra expense that can be avoided usually is.

These artists literally do live off the money generated from each and every sale they make. And there's no such thing, in this type of community, as an artist creating one package that provides an endless source of income. These people do this stuff for a living, from their homes, and in order to make a living off of it they have to keep creating new content on a regular basis, which is, for most of them, more time-consuming than you could ever really imagine, much less likely have the patience for. For some of them it's the only thing they're physically able to do, because they're either bed-ridden or crippled and litterally cannot leave their homes, so they have to depend on their artistic abilities and patience in order to feed and house themselves or their kids. For a lot of others, it’s the only thing they want to do, or feel comfortable doing because they're artists. Several of them have made pretty big names for themselves over time, and built their reputations through the various 3d communities. They did it themselves and earned every penny on their own. They damned sure didn't have some big corporate executive fueling and funding their inspiration, or signing them to any 1 year or 5 year contracts, guaranteeing them anything.

Next time you're using one of your various file sharing programs, try typing in - just for example - the term DAZ, under your files/archives search parameter and see just how many hundreds, if not thousands of results you get from it. Every one of those results is equal to money and - yeah, lets be dramatic - meals that have been stolen DIRECTLY out of the pockets and mouths of the artists that created them. I'm quite sure you have zero interest in any of these artists or their work, and that it means little to nothing to you if their digital merchandise is stolen, depleting their income and livelihood. Why should it, after all? You don't know them. What they do to make a living, or what they go with or without couldn't possibly affect you one way or the other, and you're most-likely only interested, or primarily interested in the music that you download from the file sharing programs you use. The problem comes with the fact that the majority of the people who use file sharing programs don't just use them to steal music - and call it what you want, it is stealing - they download any and everything they find that they think they'd have a use for, to include 3rd party content.

I'm so NOT a fan of the big-wig record industries. I think its disgusting how they treat a lot of the artists that have worked to make them so rich. But at the same time, you can't logically, fairly make sharing of certain types of files illegal and others not and have it make any sort of sense to anybody. Sometimes you have to side with greedy asshole organizations such as the RIAA and others, who don't give a shit about you, that you may or may not agree with entirely or feel any sympathy for, in order to ensure that the little nobodies like 3d artists aren't getting fucked over. The RIAA and their like have the power and influence that artists of any medium need in order to protect their work and their incomes. So call me an asshole, or dipshit, or a hard-ass trying to base things on principal, if that's what makes you happy. Because I'm standing up to defend the rights of artists and their work, by - originally - trying to enlighten you on the legalities of it all, and the impact it has on everybody. Tho I'm quite sure I'm wasting my time anyway, as your statements have shown you have the mindset of a spoiled child who believes he's entitled to whatever he wants whenever he wants it by whatever means necessary to obtain it. Which is exactly that of most every other young american. Or young [insert-nationality-here] for that matter. Try thinking about what If copyright laws didn't exist, or there was no one out there trying to enforce them, how many artists, musicians, writers, etc would ever even bother creating and sharing anything, because a passion for whatever it is you create, doesn't pay the bills or feed the family when everything is being stolen.
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What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks?
Would you find yourself [or]
Find yourself afraid to see?..." -NIN
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loy
as for cool bands to check out-TV On The Radio (imagine a Motown influenced Joy Division) have been playing a whole lot at my bar lately. Same as Throbbing Gristle (the very first industrial band), Silver Apples (weird early electronic/industrial band which are drumbeats, throbbing pulsing "BEEP" noises, and out of tune vocals), the Cranes (the band Rasputina wishes they could be), Broadcast (the best electronic band in the world right now. A mixture of 60's British Chick Pop and early industrial/avant-garde), and The Walkmen (a cross between hipster-mod and early Cure with a dash of Glam-Pop thrown in).
Your description of these bands has persuaded me to check them out for myself.

Thanks mate.
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:37 AM   #19
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There's plenty of free legal downloads on myspace. Yeah, yeah it is full of emo cam whores, we know this. Good for the music though.

There's a growing list of bands listed here. Most have free MP3s on their sites or myspace profiles.
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Old 02-15-2006, 10:00 AM   #20
WolfMoon
 
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Location: I own Pitseleh!!
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I was going to post something intelligent, but I think I have to go molest Pitseleh and Loy now.

They, like, know stuff.
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Old 02-16-2006, 10:08 AM   #21
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Just go crawl around purevolume for a few days, at first it will seem like everyone on there wants to be the next fall out boy, but if you dig deep enough you can find some really killer bands, with free mp3s to boot.
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Since the one thing we can say about fundamental matter is, that it is vibrating. And since all vibrations are theoretically sound, then it is not unreasonable to suggest that the universe is music and should be perceived as such.
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Old 02-16-2006, 10:48 AM   #22
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Try to band Tiger Army, not all that metal core, but they kick ass anyways. And Logan, is your sig from the satanic bible? I remember a quote that either was that, or very similar to it.
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Since the one thing we can say about fundamental matter is, that it is vibrating. And since all vibrations are theoretically sound, then it is not unreasonable to suggest that the universe is music and should be perceived as such.
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