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Old 08-31-2011, 06:27 PM   #26
Alan
 
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Have you bought a shirt or something recently that could have gone instead to paying off your debts or even keeping a healthier lifestyle?

From MY arbitrary high horse, you're just as 'retarded' [sic] as a guy on welfare that treats himself to a videogame.
See why that's fucking stupid?
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:46 PM   #27
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So the poorer you are...and the less you spend on luxury items your horse gets higher?

So that's why my horse is licking the fucking moon. Stop that shit, people are looking at us funny.

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Old 08-31-2011, 10:19 PM   #28
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Not at all. I am frustrated with people who work the system. It's quite common where I'm from.
Question.

Should you be the de facto arbiter of how the poor spend their money because they collect a welfare check to get by?

You tell us, Babs. How should the poor spend their money while they're collecting government assistance? Since, you seem to know what's best. Obviously, you don't think the poor are entitled to entertainment.

So something that's actually a basic human need (art and entertainment) should be kept away from those thieving poor people because they haven't earned the privilege to seek out common avenues to simple pleasures. I mean... How fucking DARE that poor person buy Call Of Duty 4.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:27 PM   #29
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You know what, Babs...

You're right. FUCK those social leeches. Let's just fucking cut social programs across the board because... We'll be GOD DAMNED if those social leeches use our hard earned tax dollars to afford to put food in their mouth and then buy a FUCKING VIDEO GAME.

That sounds brilliant, doesn't it. I mean... mother FUCK your parents for being on Welfare but probably having a cable subscription or a television. Mother fuck your welfare social leeching parents for EVER eating candy on our tax dollars. Mother FUCK your welfare abusing parents for EVER IN THEIR FUCKING LIFE, going out to the movies every once in a while to spice up their romantic life. Because entertainment is a luxury and not a basic human need. amirite?

Honestly, Babs... if you seriously think entertainment isn't a need, you can save a god damned truck load of money by just NOT EVER doing anything even mildly amusing and doing nothing but working 12 hours a day every fucking day and sleeping. Let's face it. Every single time you go out with your boyfriend (you probably don't have one) and enjoy yourself, YOU. ARE. WASTING. YOUR. HARD. EARNED. MONEY. ON. THINGS. THAT. ARE. NOT. AS. IMPORTANT. amirite?

We should breed your kind out of the fucking gene pool.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:37 PM   #30
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Damn
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:44 PM   #31
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Am I the only here who thinks $60 for a game is insane when you can wait 3 months and pick it up used for less than half that?

Then again, after reading how some of the companies who make these games promise their creators the moon and end up laying everyone off, those guys would probably be happier if someone just paid them in food stamps for their work and cut Walmart out of the sale.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:50 PM   #32
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Frankly poor people buying video games is reasonable, because if you really think about it, virtual reality is a poor man's reality. It can be replayed a infinite number of times with no extra cost, and enables you to do things that would normally cost many times that of the game itself.

Lets take paintball for example 1200 paintballs for example can cost $30 and that doesn't even cover equipment costs. Whereas Call of duty modern Warfare has a used price now of $16 according to amazon, and that's a one time fee. There is also a $60 per year fee for use of xbox live, but again, that a whole year, compared to a limited number of rounds of paintball. If people played paintball half as much as people do video games, they would save many thousands of dollars by doing video games instead.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:57 PM   #33
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Ren, no.

Entertainment is a basic human need. Therefore, it's acceptable for anyone to spend money on a videogame. It doesn't really need that kind of justification. But nice try.
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:12 AM   #34
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I wouldn't say buying COD4 is a reasonable use of welfare money. I mean it doesn't matter ultimately, the amount you receive is the amount you receive regardless of what you buy so if you want to eat $60 out of an already measly welfare check then whatever but even I can't afford COD4. Buy an older one off Amazon for $8.
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:30 AM   #35
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I wouldn't say buying COD4 is a reasonable use of welfare money. I mean it doesn't matter ultimately, the amount you receive is the amount you receive regardless of what you buy so if you want to eat $60 out of an already measly welfare check then whatever but even I can't afford COD4. Buy an older one off Amazon for $8.
No wonder people are rioting over there, COD4 is cheap here.

Besides, regardless of the entertainment as a necessity thing, it could have been a gift for all we know. Poor people have birthdays and Christmas too.

And like I said before, its a pretty lousy double standard we have that poor people as a whole are not responsible and we should have a say and judge them on how they spend their money, but young kids getting grant and loan money at age 18 spending a lot of it on binge drinking is considered normal and pretty much expected.

I rely a lot on grant money, and no one says a word to me when I treat myself to something like a video game.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:27 AM   #36
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I find It quite odd that I'm apparently the only one here that thinks government handouts should be based on a need to survive, and not a need to eat AND have spinners on your car or regular lobster dinners. There are a lot of people out there who don't just use their benefits for the occasional birthday gift or entertainment purchase.

But I'll rest here on my high horse and let this die, since I'm clearly the minority for thinking so.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:10 AM   #37
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i'm genuinely curious as to whether or not points are intentionally missed in order...to make a point here.

It's like certain words trigger some sort of mental mechanism that makes some people start foaming at the mouth...reminds me of Hammy's rabbit squirrel.

Baffling lol
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:32 AM   #38
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I find It quite odd that I'm apparently the only one here that thinks government handouts should be based on a need to survive, and not a need to eat AND have spinners on your car or regular lobster dinners. There are a lot of people out there who don't just use their benefits for the occasional birthday gift or entertainment purchase.

But I'll rest here on my high horse and let this die, since I'm clearly the minority for thinking so.
The government calculates what it takes to pay for basic needs and then gives that out to the people who need it.

If you get like here in Ireland €180 a week, then thats what everyone gets. If you choose to eat ramen noodles every day and then spend 90% of what you get on video games and whiskey, thats your choice.

It's a free market. Why is it that the right wing in America who often complain about big government and the government intruding into peoples lives complain about what people choose to spend their money on?

It's not like the government is giving them MORE money for them to go spend on stuff. Everyone gets the same amount. If they CHOOSE to eat a bowl of cereal once a day and spend the money they save on a new car stereo, who are you to say they can't?

Are you suggesting the government monitor all purchases made by people on welfare and anything that isn't food, cheap food, not be covered? Should they be forced to eat only stuff from a can and stuff that you microwave? Obviously you have a problem with them eating fresh seafood like lobster, which in many areas is no more expensive than other fish.

It's not you, it's a learned mentality that the right push in America. They demonise people who get social assistance like welfare, yet push corporate welfare and promote tax cuts for the wealthy (i.e. give money to rich people). The money all comes from the same pot, and those at the top like to think they are somehow better when they take it since they lead a more privileged life.

The sad thing is the average working class person, like yourself, then are brainwashing into thinking other working class people are somehow lower than you and less deserving than a rich guy you don't know.

You can judge people without all the facts. You don't know what a persons home life is just by knowing they have food stamps. To paint all persons with the same brush simply because you have been told to do so is not the way to make a good judgment about a large swatch of people, your fellow countrymen at that.

Besides, at the end of the day who do you think has taken more tax dollars from you in your lifetime? Welfare cheats or bailed out bankers? Feel free to Google and do the math sure.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #39
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Some good points there, Sternn.

I think the idea of the once-called American Dream was about the opportunity to better yourself. People who are trying to do so, whether they are failing at it or not, have been taught to look down upon those who'd rather just enjoy life and "squeak by" rather than work themselves into an early grave.

My dad's a workaholic and I hear him complain about those "people who don't work and just live off everyone else," and I have to remind him that there are people out there who really need help. Of course, you only hear about the people abusing the system and not the people getting what they need.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babs View Post
I find It quite odd that I'm apparently the only one here that thinks government handouts should be based on a need to survive, and not a need to eat AND have spinners on your car or regular lobster dinners. There are a lot of people out there who don't just use their benefits for the occasional birthday gift or entertainment purchase.

But I'll rest here on my high horse and let this die, since I'm clearly the minority for thinking so.
There's a difference between being 'clearly the minority' and being CLEARLY WRONG.
People can survive on beans, corn, and water. How about we lower the 'government handouts' so they're only able to afford that?
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
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I find It quite odd that I'm apparently the only one here that thinks government handouts should be based on a need to survive,
I find it quite odd that an actual person would believe anecdotal evidence is a great reason to take money away from needy families

Quote:
and not a need to eat AND have spinners on your car or regular lobster dinners.
The only people I've seen with spinners on their cars PAID FOR THEM. I've seen and worked with high school students who get a summer job to trick out their own car with their own money. And they still get dissed because people don't believe 'kids' these days are anything but a bunch of lazy bastards. I have never NOT ONCE seen someone who lived in the ghetto, like I did most of my life, have fucking spinners on their cars! Where are these welfare people with spinners??? I've never seen them. I think you're looking at people who are actually working class like yourself and basing your prejudices on what you think they are by what they look like.

Not all people who listen to rap and hip/hop live in the ghetto.

Quote:
There are a lot of people out there who don't just use their benefits for the occasional birthday gift or entertainment purchase.
What business is it of your what the hell they spend it on? If they want to live off of beansd for 3 months to buy some entertainment what right do you have to say anything? It's not your life.

Quote:
But I'll rest here on my high horse and let this die, since I'm clearly the minority for thinking so.
Yeah, all you privileged white people are clearly a minority....I am so goddamn sick of hearing and seeing people make that statement!

You know what frustrates me? Assholes who use anecdotal evidence as a real excuse to justify cutting benefits for families in need! STOP IT! You will never have a good enough reason to take money away from a family who needs it!

Vin, some things are like lighting a fuse with me. If my husband died, I'm still in school. If it were up to the right wing I would have to drop out to scrape by trying to raise 2 kids on my own with no assistance. Fuck letting me continue to go to school to work towards my future career! I'm a lazy poor person who deserves nothing! Shit eating wankers.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:11 PM   #42
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I had no idea being on welfare means you can have lobster dinner every day and a car, let alone spinners on it.

Here its like 100 dollars a week, clearly jackpot.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:29 PM   #43
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Are we talking for a single person or the average check for a family? And is that all inclusive or is that just cash assistance? (I have no idea how Canada's system is set up so I don't know if you guys have things like food stamps or WIC). If that is all inclusive for a family then I have to say I am surprised and shocked that Canada pays so much less than the US, I thought you guys were supposed to be our liberal-hippy neighbors to the north.


Note: this does not mean that I think US families receiving government assistance are rolling in dough, I just would have expected Canada to pay out more than the US does.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:55 PM   #44
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I'm not too sure about it to be honest, I know we have a huge problem with welfare not being livable in many places, I went to a workshop a few months back about prostitution and trafficking and this was considered a reason why prostitution is so high in such places. We have food banks but I'm pretty sure we don't have anything like food stamps.

Its controlled provincially as well, so that 100 a week might not be true of BC or Ontario, and I take it down there the state and county controls the maximum amount of assistance.

EDIT: government website is telling me that a couple with children, regardless of number of children, can get up to 684 a month, and be eligible for rent/housing assistance for an additional 372 and 50 bucks for fuel expenses. If you have two kids and a car, plus groceries to buy its not much. A single person living on their own gets 492 a month max.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:20 PM   #45
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Interesting to know, and yes down here the states pretty much get to control things as they see fit, with some states being much harsher than others. The national average is around $900 in cash assistance for a family of four with an additional average of $500 in food stamps, still not a whole lot when you are feeding and housing four people but a good bit better than $100 a week.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:06 PM   #46
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There's a difference between being 'clearly the minority' and being CLEARLY WRONG.
People can survive on beans, corn, and water. How about we lower the 'government handouts' so they're only able to afford that?
You do not need a bed in order to sleep. You do not need an apartment in order to stay out of the rain. You do not need AC in the summer if you're smart enough to stay hydrated. You do not need medical treatment to solve all of your health issues. That's what suicide is for.

Alan, technically, we can just plain ol' cut social welfare programs full stop because a human animal doesn't need today's standard of living in order to be alive. There are still nomadic tribes that live off the land. If they can do it, so can a poor person.

You know I wouldn't support that, but that is kind of the reality.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:51 AM   #47
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Babs, you're not in the minority ... and it's not just that you've chosen to take this position in a predominantly liberal forum (I skew conservative on a few things ... but less and less as I get older.) It's plainly that you are just holding an indefensible position.

Once someone qualifies for a welfare check in an amount determined to be a reasonable sum to survive on for all people who meet the same qualification standards, attempting to monitor and judge what they spend the money on is futile, arbitrary and unfair.

Let it go.

And by the way, there are plenty of real, life-threatening injustices in the world to get angry over. Do a better job of picking what things you choose to be outraged about.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:36 AM   #48
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Ben, that was a pretty eloquent post, to be honest.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:15 PM   #49
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Thank you. From time to time I have moments of clarity ... and even better, brevity.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:17 PM   #50
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Thank you. From time to time I have moments of clarity ... and even better, brevity.
We promise not to tell anyone if you won't.
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