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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 11-30-2005, 10:52 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edible_eye
and for anyone who spouts foolishness about why people can't just sit down and talk things out - you negate yourself and your delusional ideas any time you get angry and lash out at your focus of anger. don't be a hypocrite.
Point taken.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:55 AM   #52
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The newb is right.
We've already got gazillions of threads for this.
But I really do not see a point of having a thread about Hamas and Israel.
I mean, what next:

Al-Aqsa Martyrs vs Israel?
Hezzbollah vs Israel?
Jihad vs Israel?
The terrifying Muhajedin's of Death Vs Israel?

Come on....
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:29 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edible_eye
i realized long ago that people the world over look to america in a time of need and despise my country to their core when that need is no longer there. it's evident again and again and again...
That's a rather ironic statement to make.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:52 AM   #54
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Hey Dis have you ever heard of your fellow Canadian Gordon Sinclair? Before you et edible in that smarmy way I forsee coming, look him up and look at a broadcast he did called "The Americans". You can listen to the broadcast or read a transcription (I have it on a CD in the stereo sitting on my desk at the moment) give that a listen before you "go off".
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:55 AM   #55
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I've read it, and unfortunately for you, you're foresaw me coming from the north, but alas, my attack is coming from the opposite end.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:02 PM   #56
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No thanks I don't swing that way anymore. That's an exit back there...
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:22 PM   #57
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At any rate, my particular comment was going to arise from an economic standpoint, regarding the distribution of wealth internationally, the average American perspective from when I lived in the United States regarding international politics (which I will admit outright consists of little statistical validity given the limited demographic), and also a general policy towards international politics which has troubled me with the Bush administration in particular.

I don't like this concept of "with us or against us".
I don't like a lot of things about the Bush administration right now, though I'm not going to try to plant motives in their brains.

No single country is not without sin. Do not make the mistake of thinking me a nationalist. Flaunting a Canadian's opinion of a matter is as good to me as flaunting that of a Korean, a Mongolian, an Iraqi, a Frenchman, a Dutchman, or even a German.

...well... not so much the Germans, they have a tres-sexy accent.

...but I digress. Slap any nationality on any opinion and I'm content to listen, regardless.

The matter of wealth distribution is not at all considered in that editorial which makes it considerably less valid. Most countries don't have the capacity to aid as the United States does.

Example: Somebody of a relatively frail physical stature is drowning; a competitive swimmer saves their life. This same competitive swimmer is later found drowning; the frail swimmer could make it to the competitive swimmer and try to save them, but they may not have the capacity to help that swimmer without potentially drowning themselves.

The horror, the horror.

...and then there are those nations in Africa who are more akin to a quadriplegic.

The United States has the capacity to bounce back. Most other nations of the world don't have this luxury.

Hope I didn't slip too far into bias there.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:44 PM   #58
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That wasn't "with us or against us", that was "if you are going to be that big of a whiney baby about us and hate us for every little tiny thing to the point it affects your life and health apparently, go ahead we have real issues to worry about" that edible kicked there.

The U.S. is a very young country, especially compared to the rest of the world. In the short time we have been around, we have managed to become a superpower, some say THE superpower, and are in this luxury you speak of. The rest of the world has had CENTURIES to achieve this level but has not for whatever reason that may be.

Think of that. How long have other countries been around compared to us?

The ET's that bag on us? Player Haters, plain and simple.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:58 PM   #59
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Well your state of luxury certainly had nothing to do with a wealth of resources, that's for certain.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:05 PM   #60
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At any rate, you're already thoroughly biased in support of the United States.
I have nothing against the United States, though I have a great deal against the current administration, as well as your particular perspective.

Regardless of the process of getting where it is currently at, the most important fact is that you are there. They DO have this wealth and luxury which means that NOT all nations are created equally, nor do all nations require the same level of aid during times of need. Some can hold themselves together and others can't.

It's as simple as that, and until you can take up a much less entrenched position against anything I bring to light, I have no interest in continuing this exchange.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:22 PM   #61
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Also, the "with us or against us" thing wasn't at all in reference to Edible. That was in reference to the current administration.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:39 PM   #62
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Resources, eh? Again the rest of the world had amlpe time to sail over here or find what they needed elsewhere.

And we know we know, you and don't like our current administration. We got that many moons back. 50 Cent does.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:41 PM   #63
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Thank you for reminding me why I stopped frequenting this forum.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:51 PM   #64
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Blinded by nationalism again. No is trying to dispute US power, capacity or achievements.

More so, it's because of that capacity, quick growth and achievement that the US has been a rather huge letdown.

Consider this, it has become a superpower.
Let's assume for a moment that any country had the capacity to do so (there's a lot of logistics involving the "secret" of US's success today). Also a lot of it has to deal with specific circunstances (Portugal was the world's greatest power at a time when our population was a mere million, yet we did it - circunstances).

What's the point of becoming a superpower?
The romans found out.
Charles Magne found out (for those who keep forgeting the french).
Saladin found out.
We found out.
Napoleon found out (them again).

It soon becomes about responsibility. (yup, the spider-man thingie).

Responsibility means not onle that you have to act, but that you're also accountable for your actions: It sucks, I know.
You'll find out too. It's a fact. The only way for you guys not to repeat history is learning from our past mistakes instead of your current ones.

Basically, you're doing pretty much the same things we did using different words for it (and not even that, if you consider the evolution in western values).

I don't see why a cold-blooded ruthless serial murderer has the right to legal counsel, a fair trial by a jury and a and a maximum period of incarceration prior to accusation and another one doesn't.

Like the ongoing issue of CIA not-so-secret(reminds me of something ) prisons spread around the world and the transport of prisoners through several countries, in contempt for national and international laws concerning the statute of prisoners and human rights, but soverignty issues as well.
It also means our governments are going behind our backs (as usual) if this proves to be true.

If so, it further undermines allied confidence in the US (the henchman vs ally thing again).

As for the countries age, what matters is the same as with people: it's about maturity, not age.

If I'm blown up, it won't matter to me if the nation who triggered directly or indirectly my demise is one week or one thousand years old.

The US is still going through growing pains... it will pass...hopefully quickly enough (so that we can finally grow up, evolve, get on those spaceships and explore the universe).

If I really can fnd a reason for really HATING the US it's that one:

-They provide the plane and then post "FLIGHT DELAY" for a couple of centuries while they scrap the spaceships and reintroduce creationism at school (smells taliban to me).

And you know what? I'd rather get a hotheaded arguement with you fascist imperialists than delete trolls' posts for hours any day of the week.


p.s. I hope you liked that fascist imperialist touch. I'm such a sentimental for retro. Boy, do I miss the cold-war (can't believe I said that)
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:54 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunction
Thank you for reminding me why I stopped frequenting this forum.
No problem!
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:06 PM   #66
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Hey Al:

http://www.the-sisters-of-mercy.com/gen/rrr6/rrr6.html

:P
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:48 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom
Point taken.
this actually wasn't directed at you, bud. it stems from something i read in the 'what is war?' thread. i just lumped it with what i was saying because i was on a roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disfunction
The matter of wealth distribution is not at all considered in that editorial which makes it considerably less valid. Most countries don't have the capacity to aid as the United States does.

Example: Somebody of a relatively frail physical stature is drowning; a competitive swimmer saves their life. This same competitive swimmer is later found drowning; the frail swimmer could make it to the competitive swimmer and try to save them, but they may not have the capacity to help that swimmer without potentially drowning themselves.
if finances are the only thing you can put your finger on as a litmus test for validity, i'd argue such a facet was inconsequential. if you'll remember, after 9-11, the majority of nations across the globe sent their well-wishes, their prayers and their tears. such an outpouring was much more meaningful than any dollar amount they could have sent. and as far as that example from above - the fact that that swimmer TRIED to save someone who helped him in the past speaks volumes above the swimmer who would stand at the shore and denounce him because he wasn't in trouble himself at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disfunction
Well your state of luxury certainly had nothing to do with a wealth of resources, that's for certain.
there are plenty of countries with a wealth of resources who fail to achieve their potential mainly because of the level of corruption within their governing bodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaelstrom
The only way for you guys not to repeat history is learning from our past mistakes instead of your current ones.

Basically, you're doing pretty much the same things we did using different words for it (and not even that, if you consider the evolution in western values).
if that's the case, your "hatred" will, at some point, be sated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaelstrom
If I really can fnd a reason for really HATING the US it's that one:

-They provide the plane and then post "FLIGHT DELAY" for a couple of centuries while they scrap the spaceships and reintroduce creationism at school (smells taliban to me).
there it is again - the u.s. exists to make life better for everyone else and fuck the united states of america when it doesn't happen. thanx for proving my point.

a quick, realistic newsflash - the u.s. exists as all nations exist... to make good on our own national interests. quite often, that coincides with things that are beneficial to others and hey, we're all humans here - if we can spread a little happiness and comfort along the way, that's great. merry christmas. it's not the only reason the u.s. exists, though.

nations have borders for a reason.
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:39 PM   #68
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Excellent excellent points, edible.

Mael I'd respond but I am still laughing at what transpired earlier in this thread:

"50 Cent says Bush is gangsta"

"Now I remember why I left before!"
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:54 PM   #69
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Excellent excellent points, edible.

Mael I'd respond but I am still laughing at what transpired earlier in this thread:

"50 Cent says Bush is gangsta"

"Now I remember why I left before!"
Wow, you sure did misinterpret my comment.

I remember that I stopped coming to this forum because you have a habit of responding to things I post quite condescendingly. For a man of your age, I'd expect greater maturity as opposed to petty irritance.

Instead, you react to anything I've ever said in this forum with nothing but condescension. It's irritating. There goes that whole "respect" thing, again.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:05 PM   #70
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I should also note that when I say "There goes that whole 'respect' thing, again." I'm by no means attempting to upset you. I have other ways in mind that I could go about taking part in an exchange of childish insults, so please don't bother with assumptions to the contrary if you even intend to respond to any of this.

I'm well aware that this is just the internet, and as such, I don't take personal offense from the comments you leave me. It's just plain annoying to be disrespected in a forum that should be taken seriously.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:07 PM   #71
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Is this coming from the guy who was laughing and making jokes about a 15 year old girl dying?

And I'll take petty irritance over pretentiousness any day.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:09 PM   #72
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Is this coming from the guy who was laughing and making jokes about a 15 year old girl dying?

And I'll take petty irritance over pretentiousness any day.
Dare I search out your particular exchanges with Sterrn in the forum? A lot of the things you went about were downright awful. Par with any comment I've made on all of Gnet, and I've made far fewer in the same light.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:11 PM   #73
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Excellent excellent points, edible.

Mael I'd respond but I am still laughing at what transpired earlier in this thread:

"50 Cent says Bush is gangsta"

"Now I remember why I left before!"
And what is this, if not pretention? heh
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:37 PM   #74
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Go look. Look for the jokes I made about children dying. Go look at how I and many others flamed someone who thought 9/11 was funny (guess the body count there) then go look in Whining where a certain someone was about to do something awful to themselves, and how this "pretencious hypocrite" helped talk him out of it.

Multiple times.

Then go look up the word "Ungrateful".

edit: misspelling pretencious hypocrite
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:43 PM   #75
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*sigh* all of this ^ ^ ^ is why most of us, including Mael, should stay out of Politics.

Just not worth it.
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