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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 10-01-2011, 09:29 PM   #1
AshleyO
 
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So. Occupy Wall St.

I was looking into it a bit and it looks like a complete mess with their chat and forums.

We have people demanding different flavors of socialism, direct democracy, and others who are trying to defend capitalism to varying degrees.

It really just looks like one big angry poor mob and the only thing any of them seem to have a bone to pick with is the corporate dominance in our US government.

However, the solutions people want run the gamut from deregulating business to taxing corporations more severely.

What are your guys' thoughts on it?
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:56 PM   #2
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everything in moderation.
darwin's law.

i guess.
politics usually gives me a headache so i usually avoid it.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:58 PM   #3
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Supposedly, it's going to last for about 3 months.

If so, maybe I can book a jet to NYC and help out.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #4
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the only thing any of them seem to have a bone to pick with is the corporate dominance in our US government.
That's a pretty big fuckin' bone to pick. The abolition of corporatism would be a tremendous leap in the right direction. The differences of opinion can be sorted out after the whip stops cracking.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:11 PM   #5
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I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of "The abolition of corporatism" right now. That is probably the fault of two Octoberfests and a damn strong rum + coke. I'm willing to try til I pass out from the effort though
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:17 PM   #6
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It really just looks like one big angry poor mob and the only thing any of them seem to have a bone to pick with is the corporate dominance in our US government.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. I know they're getting shit on for not having a united message or demand, but honestly, having so many different people with very different opinions just knowing that something absolutely has to be done, and getting together despite their differences, I think, is very powerful. If they were all anarchists or all socialists or all whatever, I think that particular group would just get demonized. But there's nothing to really pin point here.

And perhaps penning women in and pepper spraying them isn't winning the police any points at this moment either.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:22 AM   #7
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That's not necessarily a bad thing. I know they're getting shit on for not having a united message or demand, but honestly, having so many different people with very different opinions just knowing that something absolutely has to be done, and getting together despite their differences, I think, is very powerful. If they were all anarchists or all socialists or all whatever, I think that particular group would just get demonized. But there's nothing to really pin point here.

And perhaps penning women in and pepper spraying them isn't winning the police any points at this moment either.
There will be many angry blog posts and lots of people will agree that something must be done.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:03 AM   #8
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Anyone see this or read the press release?

http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corpora...icle/ny-13.htm

Largest donation to the department ever...just hours before they rounded up 700 people and arrested them for nothing.

The best police money can buy.

Remember when this used to be called corruption?
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:39 AM   #9
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I think its awesome these people are trying to make a stand. I hope they accomplish something.

It would help their cause in a huge way if they had some sort of organization about them though. So far its just a bunch of people camping out, and now, getting themselves arrested. Do they even have a clue what they're really up against? Like someone on another board said, the US is one of the most difficult places to protest.

Apparently they have other groups all over the country rallying to do the same thing. But again, where is the organization in them? Anyone know of any actual plans they have?

This could be huge, or it could just blow over in a few days. If it becomes huge it could get really nasty and the government will have to step in. I don't see many of them lasting very long through the NY winter though, especially if its anything like it was last year. Be a whole lot of pissed off frozen poor people. Or NY could just force them to leave, as could any other city in the country.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:33 PM   #10
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This could be huge, or it could just blow over in a few days
It's already in to week 3. As for organization, they participate in general assembly, and have released at least one official statement of intent. Last I heard they were working on a concrete set of demands. This is all online. Use fuckin google man. As for "forcing them to leave" the last march/GA topped off at roughly 5000 people. You'd need the army to make them leave, and they're passively occupying public space, which they have the right to do.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:51 PM   #11
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http://occupywallst.org/

Also, I`d like to clarify that the 5000 people is witness estimate, so y`know, take it as such. Point is it`s only growing with every passing day.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:42 AM   #12
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Yes Twitch. However, even peaceful protests require permits. I don't see any city allowing 5,000 people to camp out on the streets for an indefinite period of time. There's vagrancy laws, and permits can be revoked at the citie's discretion.

How long it remains peaceful is yet to be seen. The more people that get involved with this, the possibility of it escalating into riots increases. Especially if there are more incidents of police macing protesters. Already, Seattle is trying to evict the group there who are organizing a similar protest.

For the moment it they're just being humored. It doesn't seem anyone in the media or government is taking them too seriously, yet. This will have to grow a lot bigger and spread to a lot more cities before anything is actually accomplished, and even then there's no guarantee it will be anything more than a big waste of time. Still, it is commendable. If I lived closer to one of these places I would definitely get involved.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #13
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Perhaps, but can you see the NYPD violently sweeping said thousands from the street without MASSIVE backlash from all over the country and the world?

As for being humoured, I would call the arrest of 700 people on the brooklyn bridge the government taking them quite seriously indeed. ALL mainstream media is CORPORATE. What are they protesting? Hint: Corporate power and greed. It shouldn't surprise you at all that mainstream media attempts to limit coverage. The more people know, the more they want to know, and that is detrimental to the cause of defeating the occupation. On-the-ground, independant media are the only ones who are actually willing to publish real coverage of the event. The protesters even have thier own news, called The Occupied Wall St. Journal. I wish I could get a copy.

Every day more people trickle in, eventually (or so I fervantly hope), that trickle will become a flood, and they will have no choice but to acknowledge the protestors legitimate concerns.

You live EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE NEEDED! Bring the resistance home. Social media is our friend, as we have seen in the Arab Spring. Bring like-minded people from your community and the surrounding area together, and make your voices heard. Writing your senator/congressman/whatever has failed. Traditional protest has failed. This appears to be the new wave of resistance, and it's power is undeniable. Even if you are evicted from your camp, or fail to accomplish your goals, your example will serve both as a reminder to the government that you and others like you have had enough, and as inspiration to those who would follow in your footsteps yet lack the courage.

The occupation of Ottawa begins october 15th, where will you be when the tipping point hits?
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:44 PM   #14
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I don't think the NYPD would actually do that just all of a sudden, unless they felt that the protesters were becoming a threat, which "should" only happen if riots break out. But like i said, riots can happen spontaneously, and the police would be forced to contain it. Of course it would cause shit to ripple all through the other cities around the country, and when that happens Obama can declare marshal law and we become a police state pretty much instantly. Then its no longer just the police getting involved but the national guard and if necessary the rest of the military. At that point, you pretty much have to hope that soldiers wont fire on their own citizens, but who really wants to be in that position?

So now they're being referred to as "useful idiots" by people who believe their movement has already been hi-jacked by the same people that are controlling the stock market, and that all of this is a carefully orchestrated plan to turn the US and Europe into basically the same riots and shit that's been going on in the middle east since spring. There's rumor of some kind of shit this "anonymous" group is gonna try pulling on the fed reserve, coinciding with the world revolution oct 15th. If they do, understand that that will be suicide.

This is definitely going to be an interesting Fall.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:50 PM   #15
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVmjcKVVx_E
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:14 PM   #16
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They're saying they're going to do the same thing in Portland down by the waterfront park. So far, people have been gathering, but no permit has been requested for the demonstration... as if they really need one.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:33 PM   #17
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At last count there are 35 cities across the country that are organizing the same protests, all at various stages of progress. New York was the first
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:07 AM   #18
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It's getting better!

http://tinyurl.com/6db74yd

Labor Unions Join Wall Street "Occupiers" for Mass Rally

Quote:
The cavalry has arrived in Lower Manhattan. Representatives from no fewer than 15 of the country's largest labor unions will join the Occupy Wall Street protesters for a mass rally and march today in New York City.

The AFL-CIO, United Auto Workers, and Transit Workers' Union are among the groups expected to stand in solidarity with the hundreds of mostly young men and women who have spent the better part of three weeks sleeping, eating, and organizing from Zuccotti Square.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:34 PM   #19
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Right now, I'm a bit annoyed at certain cynical liberals who seem to think that wealthy liberals can't participate in this protest.

It doesn't look so much like an anti-rich protest as it looks more like an anti-corruption protest.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:41 PM   #20
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I've met "wealthy" people, but I don't think I've ever personally run into anyone commanding the kind of economic power that comes with the 1% territory.

And you know what? If we didn't have people unable to get the medical care they need, the education they need without resorting to what essentially amounts to wage slavery; people losing their homes and investments, I wouldn't particularly care. They could choke on their champagne and go do whatever it is stupidly wealthy people do. I'd look up at their towers, say to myself "must be nice," and go on with my day. Pay some student loans, go out to a spooky club every weekend or so and pretend to be able to dance, maybe even buy a couple drinks if it won't overdraw me.

But the people that are out there protesting are speaking to the untenable situation the 1% have created and foisted on everyone else. They had their chance to enjoy their privilege, and they squandered it - proving by any reasonable metric that they are not capable of wielding their might responsibly or sustainably.

So now instead of whatever tedious bullshit I'd normally do on my weekend, I'm heading into Boston to hand out as many blankets as I can carry and thank them for taking the first steps for me and everyone else I've ever met that isn't bringing in more than $1k per day.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:52 PM   #21
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You know what?

Fuck the cynics! At least these "privileged" assholes on the streets are showing a presence! That's much better than the cynic sitting in his fucking armchair wagging his finger at them all for being hypocrites, and then not having the leadership skills to offer any kind of guidance to the cause. Instead, they just condemn the whole thing when it could be put to such positive use...
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:56 PM   #22
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Complete agreement.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:26 PM   #23
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Can someone explain to me how this is fair or even a reasonable assessment?
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:08 PM   #24
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its just some morons interpretation who sees a large mass of angry white people.

because there's too much confusion about what these people represent and the media is touting them as lazy unemployed kids who want to spread communism.

As the days and weeks pass and the numbers continue to grow more people will start to grasp the message and join in. it's gonna take some time though. but you're not going to get everybody in the country to join this. but 10 or 20% would be a great start.

I'm still not convinced it's going to do anything more than evoke marshal law, but we just gotta wait and see and hope that doesn't happen. cause if it does happen it's gonna become a nightmare for everybody, whether they're involved or not. the police will be the least of our worries at that point and we'll see just how much nasty shit the government is willing to do to its people.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:11 AM   #25
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I don't know who this Marshal guy is or what his law might be, but I think you mean martial law, as in imposed by a martial or military force. Either way, it ain't gonna happen over this.

As far as the poster goes, I guess any time there are more than two white people seen together they are either members of the nazi party or the tin woodsman convention?

So.. uh... I'm confused. Are these guys unorganized slobs that cannot form a coherent theme or an army of highly disciplined and terrifying fascists? Jeez media, why can't you frame a coherent narrative?
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