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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right."
-H.L. Menken |
10-09-2005, 10:39 AM
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#126
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
This thread has kinda fallen into the whole flame war category anyhow, so can everyone just make peace and possibly just let this thread die?
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Just a note..
This Politics forum has seen MANY heated discussions..
Some were fought on the side of decorum, some were not..
It is damn near impossible to have a debate on many of these topics, when the subject matter is so close to the Heart and Soul of the people debating these issues..
We should really hang a flashing Ass Pink Neon sign over the Politics forum, that says " Enter at Your Own Risk! "
Just be aware that for the most part, we try to keep the bloodshed to a minimum, and even when drops are spilled, most of us leave these debates with more knowledge and understanding than we possessed before.
/ end speech
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10-09-2005, 11:32 AM
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#127
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX.....Like you even give a damn.
Posts: 1,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TStone
I often read between the lines, and the line between, “I will have a conversation with those who agree with me,” and the line, “Not that everyone should agree with me,” reads you are not willing to listen or speak with anyone with differing views from yours.
And I would disagree with your opinion as to what this thread has and has not disintegrated into. Considering the content, it has been very civil, which leads me to the conclusion that you hadn’t actually read much of it (based on your original post and this) because you haven’t got a freaking clue what the past pages have covered.
And now your sense are so offended by all the other ideas you would have the thread die, because it doesn’t click with the way you think, because it’s not how you would have it, because you disagree with it.
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First paragraph, I don't think you get what I'm saying. I'm saying no flame war where people won't open up to any other views than their own. Intelligent discussion between people with two different opinions. No rants, just discussion. I don't think I can break it down any more than that.
Second Paragraph. What part were you reading? I can randomly pic a point in the thread and there is a good chance I'll land on a post where someone is ranting about what someone else's post said and how it is wrong. Check for yourself.
Third Paragraph. Again, no, I didn't agree with everyone attempting to offend everyone else. What? Can I not disagree with anything said in this thread? But then I guess this is a political thread like e_p_s said (which also means that my disagreeing with it is just fine). But still my bad for trying to end the thread based on the argumentative nature of the thread. I forget we were talking politics, I have been up for far too long. Forgive as I am in dire need of sleep.
__________________
TwistedKitsune: I like broccoli too! Just not when it's thrown out a window at my back by an ornery 5 year old...
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10-09-2005, 06:28 PM
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#128
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, S.C. (USA)
Posts: 363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
This thread has kinda fallen into the whole flame war category anyhow, so can everyone just make peace and possibly just let this thread die?
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Lots of people around here like to try twisting what others say and feed stuff into what you post, which is why I gave up on the arguing. They won't believe you even when you provide proof, so save yourself a lot of frustration and in the future, just state your personal opinion, if you have one, so as not to provoke them.
__________________
~E.D.
~v~ ~v~ ~v~
"What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks?
Would you find yourself [or]
Find yourself afraid to see?..." -NIN
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10-10-2005, 05:10 AM
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#129
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 232
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Quote:
How many of you could answer the last two questions with the same answer as me? For those who do, I will have an intelligent conversation with you on the matter. Those who do not, I will not join in your squabbling and whining.
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You have to be kidding! Please tell me you are. Please tell me that someone out there isn't going to just pop in, inform us what kind of people he or she is going to talk to, announce her opinion of anyone not falling into this strange catagory, and then expect not to get flamed?
Hon, we really don't CARE who you will or will not have a converstion with. But, just to be a jackass, tell me, if we don't meet your own, special criteria, do we still get to squabble and whine without you?
*Cause I reeely want to whiiine and squabble, dammit!*
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10-10-2005, 07:22 AM
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#130
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder
Lots of people around here like to try twisting what others say and feed stuff into what you post, which is why I gave up on the arguing. They won't believe you even when you provide proof, so save yourself a lot of frustration and in the future, just state your personal opinion, if you have one, so as not to provoke them.
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No one is trying to twist your words. They are taking things you actually said, and proving that you have a wondrous capacity for self-contradiction. Rather than accusing them of "twisting" your words, you could always just explain what you meant as opposed to feeling it necessary to stand up against particular individuals.
__________________
"You had a tough day at the office, so you come home, make yourself some dinner, smother your kids, pop in a movie; maybe a have a drink. It's fun, right? ...wrong.
...don't smother your kids."
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10-10-2005, 09:55 AM
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#131
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK, Middlesbrough
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
Thank you BH for being one of the few in this thread with an intellectual argument rather than a *blatantly* biased one.
Do I have beliefs in God? Yes
Do I force my beliefs on other people? No
Am I open to other peoples beliefs? Yes
How many of you could answer the last two questions with the same answer as me? For those who do, I will have an intelligent conversation with you on the matter. Those who do not, I will not join in your squabbling and whining.
Personally, I believe that if we do not keep religion and state seperate, then chaos and civil war will ensue. Both should be fully allowed and fairly represented (when it comes to all religions and all parties of politics), but kept safely seperate.
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I do agree with most of this actually, especially the part about fair representation, in fact, this is the best argument for keeping it out of the classroom. In science (especially) rather than give equal representation to a "theory" just because it exists, we give more time to real theories to the point of excluding the suppositions thinly veiled as actual scientific theory.
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10-11-2005, 05:49 PM
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#132
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX.....Like you even give a damn.
Posts: 1,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder
Lots of people around here like to try twisting what others say and feed stuff into what you post, which is why I gave up on the arguing.
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I'm starting to see what you mean ExistentialDisorder.
Fine, I give, I will whine and squabble with all of you. Who knows? Might be fun.
So can we please, PLEASE, just cut out the top part of my post and go with the personal opinion I gave? We've gotten too far off topic.
This part:
Quote:
Personally, I believe that if we do not keep religion and state seperate, then chaos and civil war will ensue. Both should be fully allowed and fairly represented (when it comes to all religions and all parties of politics), but kept safely seperate.
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__________________
TwistedKitsune: I like broccoli too! Just not when it's thrown out a window at my back by an ornery 5 year old...
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10-11-2005, 07:13 PM
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#133
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
I'm starting to see what you mean ExistentialDisorder.
Fine, I give, I will whine and squabble with all of you. Who knows? Might be fun.
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Umm maybe you should check out ED's favorite site www.dictionary.com for the definition of the word:
Sarcasm..
Because this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostposts
*Cause I reeely want to whiiine and squabble, dammit!*
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Was: S A R C A S M
I mean cmon, you join Gnet and bail off into a heated political discussion, without knowing the participants, read a few posts in the thread, and start pointing fingers and telling everyone how they should behave, just because you said so..
What exactly did you expect after that?
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and broke down the general vibe here for you, as best as I could..
But if you can't give back as good as you get, don't start finger pointing at strangers next time..
You appear to be an intelligent man, so this concept should be easy to grasp, and certainly you must be able to see the validity in what I am saying..
You just don't march right in, balls swinging, into a group of faceless strangers, and start telling people how to behave, and not expect some sort of backlash..
Pretty simple man..
Just go with the flow, and if you're inclined, kick back and participate in a lively debate about opposing views on touchy subjects..
It can be quite satisfying actually..
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10-11-2005, 07:22 PM
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#134
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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I don't wanna live in a world where I'm slowly forced to give up religion by people who make it so you can't be taken seriously if you choose to believe in someone, never lifting a finger to make a direct move of course, since that isn't their style.
But it feels to me it's the way it's going. And it's going to provoke all the fundamentalists so much and innocent little peace loving pagans will get caught in the cross-fire
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10-11-2005, 07:45 PM
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#135
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
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I don't know Rosie..
I'm 33 years old, and I can look back over the last 33 years and see all of the major strides that have been made towards tolerance and acceptance..
20 years ago if you told someone you were "Pagan", you could expect condemnation, frightened looks and lots of finger pointing..
Now it is as common as Starbucks..
To the point were many (not all) people think being "Pagan" is a trendy thing to 'Be' and much of the true meaning and concept has been lost to commercialization..
Hell, a close friend of mine stationed in Iraq has "Pagan" as his religion of choice on his Dog Tags..
So If the US Army is becoming more open-minded, we really have made significant strides as a nation towards some form of religious tolerance in this country..
My 2.8 cents...
Now here's Tstone with the weather...
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10-11-2005, 08:32 PM
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#136
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, S.C. (USA)
Posts: 363
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hey, now. dictionary.com is a good site. i've learned a lot of stuff off that site.
i'd use britannica.com if i wasn't po. but i am.
__________________
~E.D.
~v~ ~v~ ~v~
"What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks?
Would you find yourself [or]
Find yourself afraid to see?..." -NIN
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10-12-2005, 03:12 PM
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#137
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX.....Like you even give a damn.
Posts: 1,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
Umm maybe you should check out ED's favorite site www.dictionary.com for the definition of the word:
Sarcasm..
Because this:
Quote:
*Cause I reeely want to whiiine and squabble, dammit!*
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Was: S A R C A S M
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LMAO!! I know, I was cracking a joke back at that one.
*sigh* If your gonna make it in this forum E_P_S, your gonna have to learn not to take things so seriously. J/K *Silly Grin*
But seriously, that last post was entirely on a lighthearted note. I don't do grudges, I just just crack jokes to lighten up the mood when things get heated..............I'm gonna be cracking a lot of jokes in the political forum.
Can you guys ever forgive me for my brashness? *bowing*
__________________
TwistedKitsune: I like broccoli too! Just not when it's thrown out a window at my back by an ornery 5 year old...
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10-12-2005, 03:19 PM
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#138
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK, Middlesbrough
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
LMAO!! I know, I was cracking a joke back at that one.
*sigh* If your gonna make it in this forum E_P_S, your gonna have to learn not to take things so seriously. J/K *Silly Grin*
But seriously, that last post was entirely on a lighthearted note. I don't do grudges, I just just crack jokes to lighten up the mood when things get heated..............I'm gonna be cracking a lot of jokes in the political forum.
Can you guys ever forgive me for my brashness? *bowing*
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Ahh, but are you one who is brasher than brash when you crack a joke?
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10-12-2005, 03:56 PM
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#139
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar
*sigh* If your gonna make it in this forum E_P_S, your gonna have to learn not to take things so seriously. J/K *Silly Grin*
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I do believe after 1,816 posts, I just might make it..
And just in case I have Nurse Teapot to revive me if I feel faint...
Last edited by Empty_Purple_Stars; 10-12-2005 at 05:10 PM.
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10-12-2005, 04:05 PM
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#140
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX.....Like you even give a damn.
Posts: 1,210
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Hey there Nurse Teapot, I think I'm due in for an examination.
__________________
TwistedKitsune: I like broccoli too! Just not when it's thrown out a window at my back by an ornery 5 year old...
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10-20-2005, 10:36 PM
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#141
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
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__________________
"You had a tough day at the office, so you come home, make yourself some dinner, smother your kids, pop in a movie; maybe a have a drink. It's fun, right? ...wrong.
...don't smother your kids."
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10-20-2005, 10:45 PM
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#142
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunction
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(Scientist breaks Intelligent Design advocate's kneecap.)
Intelligent Design advocate: YEAAARRRRGGGHHHH! YOU BROKE MY KNEECAP!
Scientist: Perhaps it only appears that I broke your kneecap. Certainly, all the evidence points to the hypothesis I broke your kneecap. For example, your kneecap is broken; it appears to be a fresh wound; and I am holding a baseball bat, which is spattered with your blood. However, a mere preponderance of evidence doesn't mean anything. Perhaps your kneecap was designed that way. Certainly, there are some features of the current situation that are inexplicable according to the "naturalistic" explanation you have just advanced, such as the exact contours of the excruciating pain that you are experiencing right now.
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10-21-2005, 05:58 PM
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#143
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
(Scientist breaks Intelligent Design advocate's kneecap.)
Intelligent Design advocate: YEAAARRRRGGGHHHH! YOU BROKE MY KNEECAP!
Scientist: Perhaps it only appears that I broke your kneecap. Certainly, all the evidence points to the hypothesis I broke your kneecap. For example, your kneecap is broken; it appears to be a fresh wound; and I am holding a baseball bat, which is spattered with your blood. However, a mere preponderance of evidence doesn't mean anything. Perhaps your kneecap was designed that way. Certainly, there are some features of the current situation that are inexplicable according to the "naturalistic" explanation you have just advanced, such as the exact contours of the excruciating pain that you are experiencing right now.
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ROFL, that is too funny, hahaha, ok, ok, my sides are hurting, ow!, haha.
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10-22-2005, 04:24 PM
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#144
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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Ugh, I hate that kneecap thing. I can just imagine the snooty better-than-you asshat of a scientist and his big it's-not-a-grin-it's-SCIENCE on his face. I really want to hurt both the people in that story, badly.
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10-22-2005, 04:25 PM
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#145
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 517
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Nice. Goddamn Loch Ness monster!
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10-22-2005, 04:27 PM
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#146
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
Ugh, I hate that kneecap thing. I can just imagine the snooty better-than-you asshat of a scientist and his big it's-not-a-grin-it's-SCIENCE on his face. I really want to hurt both the people in that story, badly.
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Ah, but the scientist IS better.
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10-22-2005, 04:36 PM
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#147
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 517
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I changed my mind. This scientist is a dumbass because he broke the guy's kneecaps in front of a shitload of witnesses and presumably on tape, while the big thing about evolution is that nobody's actually seen it happen. Weak analogy.
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10-22-2005, 05:28 PM
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#148
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
Ugh, I hate that kneecap thing. I can just imagine the snooty better-than-you asshat of a scientist and his big it's-not-a-grin-it's-SCIENCE on his face. I really want to hurt both the people in that story, badly.
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I don't believe that is an actual account, as it likely would have been well-publicized, people would have reacted much sooner (people ie the moderator), and it illustrates a point.
__________________
"You had a tough day at the office, so you come home, make yourself some dinner, smother your kids, pop in a movie; maybe a have a drink. It's fun, right? ...wrong.
...don't smother your kids."
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10-22-2005, 05:31 PM
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#149
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple
I changed my mind. This scientist is a dumbass because he broke the guy's kneecaps in front of a shitload of witnesses and presumably on tape, while the big thing about evolution is that nobody's actually seen it happen. Weak analogy.
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Actually, there has been observable evidence in support of evolution, in smaller organisms with shorter life spans (for instance, some organisms in the water having changes in pigment to adapt to increased UV radiation). It also depends on what kind of evolutionary theory you are attempting to apply, and the rest I have to say is present in the last post.
__________________
"You had a tough day at the office, so you come home, make yourself some dinner, smother your kids, pop in a movie; maybe a have a drink. It's fun, right? ...wrong.
...don't smother your kids."
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10-23-2005, 02:44 PM
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#150
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunction
Actually, there has been observable evidence in support of evolution, in smaller organisms with shorter life spans (for instance, some organisms in the water having changes in pigment to adapt to increased UV radiation).
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ID doesn't deny microevolution, for exactly those reasons. It's the evidence for macroevolution, the stuff it would be impossible for humans to have directly observed, like the evolution from a single-celled organism to a platypus, that ID presents as incomplete.
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