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Old 09-23-2007, 07:16 PM   #101
Godslayer Jillian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow
Well
this person speaks MY language.
Amen.
Hold on a second.
He said tweeners that know nothing about the subculture and people that try too hard to be goth (i.e. people that want to make goth everything that is good and superior in this world, rather than just a musical style) are the ones that are ruining goth for us...
And he speaks your language?
No, no, that's exactly what we (the people you've been arguing with) have been saying.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:04 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
Hold on a second.
He said tweeners that know nothing about the subculture and people that try too hard to be goth (i.e. people that want to make goth everything that is good and superior in this world, rather than just a musical style) are the ones that are ruining goth for us...
And he speaks your language?
No, no, that's exactly what we (the people you've been arguing with) have been saying.
just stop arguing with me
And you are actually putting words in this person's mouth. I second the fact that you don't need a word to associate yourself with, you can just be yourself.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:12 PM   #103
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Where's the fun with not disagreeing when you feel you have to?
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:15 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
Where's the fun with not disagreeing when you feel you have to?
Because you may feel like you have to
But you do not
You said it yourself, this is the stuff everyone has been saying all along, and now that I agreed with one of you, YOU want to go against it.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:20 PM   #105
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I just sense faulty logic somewhere in this thread and I'm trying to pin-point it.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:25 PM   #106
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No need to start snipping at each other, we all agree here.

It's because of people that I stated, and people who want in the "club" so damn bad, that are ruining things.

Like it or not, society has made "Goth" into a label, and has made it out to be an exclusivity. People believe they have to BE something, in order to BE it.

These people also don't have the comprehension to think on a 3rd dimension, nor are they philosophers.

They think the culture rejects them because they simply don't fit in, when in reality, they are rejecting themselves by trying to frustrate an answer to the unanswerable.

A majority of society is spoon-fed what to think. These people that take it in, can't seem to make a thought for themselves. They have extreme trouble thinking on a curve, and it's THESE people who make the cliques in the subculture itself.

Get together a group of knownothings, and guess what you've got: Ignorants who think they've founded something that has been for decades.

It's these people that the public see, mainly due to the fact they almost ALWAYS outcry for attention, and this is why the rest of the subculture is in turmoil, because of the small, albeit loud, group indirectly connected to the culture who are causing scenes and making news.

The news doesn't care a damn about the culture, they just prey on the morons that are on the fringes, and claim it a demonistic culture, mainly due to the few radicals that are barely if at all, in the culture itself.

I've heard News reporters claim that the VA Tech shooter was "Goth", and wrote demonic stories, and right there it shows that they one: Don't know shit about the culture, and two: they don't give a shit about it.

Goth sub-culture and the derivatives are just a scapegoat for miscreant youth and dead-beat parents, not to mention great front page news.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:34 PM   #107
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Goths can cause scenes too some times.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:46 PM   #108
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I've never seen a goth cause a scene simply to get attention.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:24 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZero
I've never seen a goth cause a scene simply to get attention.
No I just mean, goths can be loud and hyper too (maybe not to get attention but hyperness of any kind turns heads). It's not a rule that only mall goths do that.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:42 PM   #110
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Nah, I'm just talking about the people who do it solely for the attention it gets them. Mainly due to the fact their parents are dead-beats and don't have time for a child.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:58 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZero

I've heard News reporters claim that the VA Tech shooter was "Goth", and wrote demonic stories
I agree that the news knows nothing... Anything in a black trenchcoat that causes death is goth, and even more so if they're on VampireFreaks (thinking of Columbine, Dawson College and the girl from Medicine Hat).
And as for the VA Tech, if having issues is all there is to Goth, then yeah. Apparently he did the whole selective mutism thing (aka, he only talked at home, kind of thing) when he was really young, and hated the sound of his own voice, among other problems. He was never marked on participation in High school cuz he couldn't participate cuz of continuing selective mutism issues.
I'm surprised they didn't drag 4Chan or /b/ into this, cuz he may have posted on /b/ that he was gonna shoot people (not confirmed, but...). But then, 4Chan isn't goth, so I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. -_-'

Anyway... On topic...
The other group of people who are ruining Goth (particularly for me, because some people around me FOCUS INTENTLY on such ruinous people) is the people who claim to be goth, and then go kill lots of people, or people who should be really close to them (Dawson and the girl from Medicine Hat again...). THEY are the ones who cause all the sensational news.
Then there are the people who do something terrible, and get categorized as "Goth" even if they're not; even if they never even categorized themselves as goth. The media uses them to ruin goth too.
I wonder when this whole anti-goth thing really started. *looks enquiringly at people who have been in the scene for a long time, and/or who follow news farther back than I do*
I'm also irritated, like so many others, at people who become goth to get attention from their semi-neglectful parents. It causes people to assume that because someone is goth, they must have been abused or otherwise treated poorly as a child. It's a source of great worry to my Mother that people will think she's a horrible parent because I dress in black and wear heavy eyeliner, and that's one of the few things for which I don't entirely blame myself.

I wear lace and velvet and long flowy skirts because I like them. I try to appreciate beauty in things that people don't normally think of as beautiful. I don't always succeed in that, and for some things I don't even try, but nonetheless.
I wear black because I don't feel like an ass in it.
I feel like Gothic architecture is like some goth fashions: ornate, graceful, old, tastefully dirty and aged, awe-inspiring, and just plain beautiful.
I think odd things are cute, such little spiders and little snakes. I saw the most ridiculously cute garter snake when I was camping this summer... Not too many people I've met think snakes or spiders are cute.
I am naturally attracted to sombre things, like a good deal of goth music. I like rain to the point where I will go out for a walk specifically because it's raining. Typing of which, it's been WAY WAY WAY too long since it's rained here.... *checks weather* I hope the rain scheduled for Wednesday comes... *looks pleadingly at sky*
I like sombre sculpture and paintings and poems. It's just the way I am.
I also like sculpture and paintings and poems that show skill in sculpture or paintings or poems, not in bullshit. Too much of modern art is bullshit.

Another reason I may be attracted to Goth is that it's largely bashed by the media and general society, and I tend to be somewhat self-sabotaging.

Enough of that. I'm going to bed.

Why is there an ad for "Constipation Detox" in the Google ads?
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:30 AM   #112
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When did the media start trashing "Goth"? probably when Marilyn Manson got popular.

The media, authority figures and parents alike, all LOVE to point the finger at others, so they make their mistakes look like it's everyone else's fault.

People think goth as Ozzy Osbourne, Marilyn Manson, Slayer, Rob Zombie, Evanesence. It's all bullshit.

Like long hair was the anti-christ in the 80s, Gothic teens are the be-all-end-all of society now.

Pre-Manson, people left "Goth"s alone. Brushed them off simply as weirdos.

Now all of a sudden, every goth is a satanist, every goth practices Wicca, every goth is a Pagan, Every goth listens to Marilyn Manson and Slayer, and sacrifices virgins.

Just like the churches swear they hear demonic lyrics when they play KISS backwards, Goth culture will always be the whipping-boy (so to speak) of society.

Why? Because everyone knows that these people are independent, and don't care. They trash the society to TRY and get on peoples nerves.

Nowadays, tweeners and teens flock to goth because it scares the shit out of parents. It gives them a sense of power, and soaks up attention.

It's a rebel fad, and plenty of groups are riding the coattails, which also doesn't help the culture, it only popularizes it, which makes it lose it's unique flavor.

I'm not saying that people SHOULDN'T be goth, I'm just saying people need to be themselves. They shouldn't try to BE goth just to fit into the crowd.

It's like being gay... which is a whole nother argument... Same idea however.

Bottom line, for whomever reads this:

BE YOUR F*CKING SELF. It's better than anything else you will EVER try to be. Period.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:43 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memento Mori
And just because I have an extreme love/ obbsession with My Chemical Romance and Gerard Way doesn't mean I'm not goth either.
Actually, that's exactly what that means. It means you're Emo. So handle it.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:36 AM   #114
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Just buy a label maker and be done with it all.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:05 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZero
When did the media start trashing "Goth"? probably when Marilyn Manson got popular.

Like long hair was the anti-christ in the 80s, Gothic teens are the be-all-end-all of society now.

Pre-Manson, people left "Goth"s alone. Brushed them off simply as weirdos.
You're making a few wrong assumptions here. I have friends who were deathrockers/goths in the early 80's, and they regularly got threatened or beat up because no one knew what the hell goth was and so they assumed they were satanists/wierdos. Certainly the media witch hunt came later as the goth scene became more visible, but goths have been harassed for as long as there have been goths. And long hair was controversial in the 60's, not the 80's.

On a more general note - speculating about time periods when one wasn't alive yet, or was under the age of 10, is generally going to lead to inaccuracy. Thus any time I talk about the late 70's scene, I am basing my statements on references (i.e. people who were there, written accounts). This is why journalists such as Mick Mercer and Greg Fasolino are so valuable, because they *lived* it and can fill in the gaps for those of us too young to remember. I highly recommend reading their work.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:15 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZero
Pre-Manson, people left "Goth"s alone. Brushed them off simply as weirdos.
Yeah, right. Sorry man, I agree with the "be yourself" sentiment, but I have to say no to this one.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:30 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkbroken
Actually, that's exactly what that means. It means you're Emo. So handle it.

Jesus christ....Labels labels labels...Come on! music is music....period! If you like it then so be it...If you don't then thats cool too, just don't fucking ridicule others for liking those bands you hate...
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:18 AM   #118
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Once again you both missed the point of my statement. I was saying the media didn't focus on Goths.

And the long hair was the rebellion in the 80s, it was the Hair Bands that made it popular, and it was the thing to do.

I'm basing it on fact so please stop acting like know-it-all assholes.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:31 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZero
Once again you both missed the point of my statement. I was saying the media didn't focus on Goths.
From your previous post:

Quote:
Pre-Manson, people left "Goth"s alone.
If you meant the media, you should have specified.

Quote:
And the long hair was the rebellion in the 80s, it was the Hair Bands that made it popular, and it was the thing to do.

I'm basing it on fact so please stop acting like know-it-all assholes.
Ok, where are you getting the facts from?

You're the one who keeps making all these false/misworded assertions with a tone of authority. I'm not sure how pointing out inaccuracies makes me a know it all.
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Old 09-24-2007, 11:01 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by MaverickZero
I'm basing it on fact so please stop acting like know-it-all assholes.
I wasn't taking a swipe at you; relax.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:56 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkbroken
Actually, that's exactly what that means. It means you're Emo. So handle it.
Not that I like Gerard, but SERIOUSLY
This is my point. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO LIKE ANYTHING that isn't goth aproved if you want to me goth. What the hell is the point?
I would much rather drop the word, and be free to like whatever the hell I want without needing some sort of sticker of a proval from the goth kings.
*walks off angerly*
Yes this has been said before, but BE YOURSELF. Not the "I like black so I'm a rebel" self, but actually your own unique self.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:02 PM   #122
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GC, have you noticed that the people you complain about are never the people you refer to?
Certainly you're not going to throw linkbroken with the rest of us, are you?
You complain about the people we just don't take seriously.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:03 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
GC, have you noticed that the people you complain about are never the people you refer to?
Certainly you're not going to throw linkbroken with the rest of us, are you?
You complain about the people we just don't take seriously.
Yeah, I thought linkbroken's comment was pretty damn asinine as well. I don't think he is at all representative of people's general attitudes.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:07 PM   #124
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:07 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
GC, have you noticed that the people you complain about are never the people you refer to?
Certainly you're not going to throw linkbroken with the rest of us, are you?
You complain about the people we just don't take seriously.
Well, no one but me said anything to her so I had no bloody way of knowing wheather you think so or not.
I sure as hell would be relieved to know that this isn't how others feel. And by the way, I did quote her so I WAS reffering to her.
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