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Old 03-22-2006, 05:55 PM   #1
CptSternn
 
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Question Texas arresting people in bars for being drunk

http://news.**********/s/nm/20060322/...BhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.



Not to go off on another 'the states are bad' thread, but does anyone else find this excessive? I mean, I live in a country that lives every weekend like it's Mardi Gras. The UK is the same way, as is Spain, and most of the rest of Europe I have ever visited. I mentioned the show 'How Low Can You Go' where the Irish lads travel to a new country every week and try to get as pissed as possible on the least amount of money. Then ye see something like this, where a state in the US decides they are not happy just arresting people who have one glass of wine with dinner, but decide to go through bars, clubs, and resutrants breath-testing people and arresting them for having a drink while in public.

Much like lowering the BAC level to .08, I would expect to see this spread to other states as groups like MADD and their many off-shoots push this as new legislation, and like all the previous legislation they have pushed ALL went through because there is not a congressman who will go against any group like MADD.

Isn't buying/consuming alcohol legal? So why is it having one drink of it outside yer home a jailable offense? This isn't the first time this has happened - the state of Virginia AND in Washington D.C. they have been doing this for about a year now. There were a few articles I read at Christmas where ABC agents in Virginia infiltrated company Christmas parties that were at various locations like Applebees and TGIFridays and arrested people in the parking lot, some getting ready to drive, some just getting into other peoples cars, and they were jailed for drunk in public offenses. I'll dig up those links if anyone wants them.

Is it me or is this just crazy?
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:17 PM   #2
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i have to admit, when i saw this on the news today, it was a bit unsettling.

It does seem crazy. i have to look into this a little further.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:18 PM   #3
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So turn the bar private, members only. Then it's no longer public. That's what they do around here. Alcohol laws are 2am here. So, the owners just lock their doors at 2am so that nobody else can come in, and they continue selling. Once you leave, you don't come back in.

But i'm not surprised. They're trying to make it illegal to smoke most anywhere you go, to include your own home in some places. so i won't be surprised if they start attacking alcohol too. this is just the first step.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:29 PM   #4
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So your advocating making all places that sell alcohol private members only establishments? Why not just bring back the classic speak-easy and hide outright from all police?
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:29 PM   #5
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Yet another sign of our increasingly oppressive government rears its' ugly head? What ever happened to people being held responsible for their actions, not level of a particular chemical in their blood stream? Somehaow this seems akin to being considered guilty until proven innocent.
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:33 AM   #6
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Eh, I don't drink anymore.

The federal government will step in if things get too out of hand, I suspect.
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by CptSternn
So your advocating making all places that sell alcohol private members only establishments? Why not just bring back the classic speak-easy and hide outright from all police?
I'm not advocating anything. I'm just stating one way of getting around it. If you make your bar a private club, then it's no longer public, which means the public intoxication law can't apply, until the intoxicated individual steps outside onto the public streets.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Xnguela
You know, or we could go all the way and prohibit cussing and loud music and public nudity. They're trying to get us down, Sternn! We should revolt and get arrested.
Thats what I'm here for. I'm starting the next US revolution. UP THE REBS!
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:51 AM   #9
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I'm not advocating anything. I'm just stating one way of getting around it. If you make your bar a private club, then it's no longer public, which means the public intoxication law can't apply, until the intoxicated individual steps outside onto the public streets.
No offense ED, but thats weak. I mean, ye remind me of all those other people I watch on telly in the states when they are asked on the street by reporters about all these new laws and acts bush has put in place.

When asked about illegal wiretaps people are like 'well, its bad but I dont use the phone that much' or asked about illegal searches they are like 'I live alone with my cat and have nothing to hide'.

Thats not the point. The people shouldn't have to adapt, or think 'well, its not that big a deal', the point is yer rights as a citizen, yer rights as human in this world have been limited. Something you could do yesterday legally you cannot do now because a large body of people who you probably didn't vote for now think its best you don't do something anymore.

Doesn't matter if you do that thing or not. Point is, for over 200 years since the founding of the US people were doing it and all was grand. Why now do citizens have to not do something or give up certain rights that were promised in their constitution?

Apathy. People sitting back saying, well, it doesnt really effect me. Of course the next step of the law might effect you, but by then no one will be able to fight against it beecause all the laws will be stacked against them.

Much like the classic prodestant ministers concentration camp speech '...and i stayed silent...and then they came for me' if you sit back on your laurels while the government takes away all those little rights that don't effect you, its only a matter of time before they run out of little things and take out something that does effect you, and cite prior things they took away without you fighting back as precedent to do so.

Like a country full of Eor's over there. 'Oh well. What can you do. Might as well go home...'

Viva la restistance!

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Old 03-23-2006, 09:09 AM   #10
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Sternn, wouldn't it make more sense for you to start the revolution if you ACTUALLY LIVED HERE? I mean, I know you have the dual citizenship thing, and I know that's convenient when you want to go to Canada, but you don't live here, and you have no american patriotism... So why do you care what happens to this country?
Cuz I used to like parts of the place, and one day would like tobring a group of mates there, but not if we have to go through retina scans, get an RFID chip impanted in your necks, and walk around under government survellence. I mean, I used to go to Mardi Gras every year. Stayed with mates who went to college there. I used to go clubbing in NYC, used to spin on occasion at The Bat Cave (Albion). I used to love driving down Art Deco drive (A1A Blvd) in Miami with the top off the vette drinking fruity frozen drinks and doing coke in the jacks of Madonnas club. Used to love to watch boxing matches live from Mickey Rorkes bar there in Cocconut grove while watching Mickey, Stallone, and whatever other celebs where there that day chat out on the private deck. I used to love to own a niteclub, have big names like Prince (or whatever hes calling himself these days) walk in and sit down beside me.

I had some good times. And thanks to all these new laws, most everything I used to do I can't do anymore. I mean, walking from a pub to another pub you have to go through more security and police than you will find across all of Europe. You can't go to the shop without worrying that if you buy the wrong items you might have the DEA at yer front door. You can't drink a glass of wine with dinner and drive home without a guy with a gun coming up to your car window, pistol drawn, trying to take you away.

I'd love to go back on holiday there sometime, but as mentioned, I had run-ins with the law almost every other month. 90% of the time I had done nothing wrong, but because of the way I dressed, the car I drove, or the people I associated with I was singled out and harrassed. Constantly. In various cities. You can't go to a club without a dozen undercover cops eyeballing you following you, trying to get in yer business.

To see a whole genreration of people there now coming up in this new society, never having experienced the joys I knew when there is depressing. It's like the first generation slaves in America, only knowing captivity and never knowing freedom. Even though now I'm 'back in the wild' so to speak, I still feel bad cuz there was, and possibly is, still potential for such good things there. Too bad everyone doesn't know it and is willing to give it all up for the government.
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:24 AM   #11
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To me, this is outrageous!

There are a certain amount of fatalities that occur because of drunk driving each year, but to go into a bar(where people go to get drunk with their buddies) and arrest people for being drunk?

Ludicrous!

Most people sober up a little before driving home. While I won't say anything derogatory about MADD(and groups like them), I do think it's increasingly annoying that they seem to be trying to stop people from getting drunk unless it's in their own home.

I'm going to be a bit wary on my next night out. I never drive when I'm drunk, my husband is my designated driver. Would they arrest me if I had a designated driver?
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:27 PM   #12
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This is definitely a Texas thing. I never saw anything like this in nearly 40 years in Wisconsin, but I've seen it several times before this occurance here.

Legally, Texas is a very regressive state. Not a good place to drink anywhere but at your home or other private residence.

However, I note that I've never seen them pull this shit on New Years Eve.
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Old 03-26-2006, 05:13 AM   #13
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here in massachusetts, the police wait in the parking lot. they watch people walk to their cars. they approach whomever they believe they'd like to test.

the law here states that a person must be behind the wheel of a running car, even if it's idling, before they can be arrested for driving while intoxicated.

arresting someone as a preventative measure is excessive, in my opinion. i can't believe a law like this was voted in in texas, before massachusetts - unless, of course, driving while intoxicated or public intoxication was something out of control and notably dangerous to the citizenry of texas.
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:37 AM   #14
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ok, this is a gross violation of our rights. premptivly arresting people because they may do something studip; it's kinda like premptivly attacking a country because they may attack some century.
something like this is excessive, but expected in the bush reich!
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:45 AM   #15
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dont you worry cptsternn, we aren't giving N E THING up to the government! take for example, Burningman!! i've been several times. several awesome times! we're here. we exsist all over the country. luckily, we're here as shadows we come out when we want, and vanish w/out a trace when we need.
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Old 03-26-2006, 08:12 AM   #16
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ha! the public school system should have pre-emptively locked you in class to learn proper english and spelling.

ba-dump-bump.
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Old 03-26-2006, 10:28 AM   #17
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Mydnyght, please pay attention to your spelling! You're giving people headaches.

Sheesh!
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Old 03-26-2006, 12:23 PM   #18
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The old joke about the drunks being arrested in the parking lot by the cops is actually true, and I meself have actually done this before. So a personal anecdote for those who haven't heard this (try it yerself it werks).

A police car with a couple cops is sitting across from a pub in the car park watching the front door of the pub. A lad staggers out of a bar, noticably pissed (thats Irish fer drunk) and makes his way to his car. After fumbling around in his pockets fer his keys he finds them, drops them, and spends a few minutes on his knees trying to find the keys which have bounced under the car. After retrieving them, and having difficulty standing back up, leaning against the car he tries to put his keys in the door. After finally getting them in the car door, he opens the door, sits in the drivers seat, fumbles with his mobile phone, the radio, adjusts his mirror, then fumbles to get his keys into the ignition. The very second the car engine turns over the cops hit their lights, come flying across the car park blocking his car from pulling out of the spot he is parked in, jump out, go pull him out of the car and of course ask him, 'sir, have you been drinking tonight?'. The man replies 'no sir, in fact I'm designated tonight'. The cop replies 'your the designated driver?'. The man replies 'no, I'm the designated drunk diversion'.

See the man was sober as a stone. While the cops sat in wait with their eyes on yer man, a half dozen other half pissed lads who were also drunk but not 'fall down' drunk were able to happily drive off while the cops spent their time waiting for their mark.

Works everytime.

Works even better when you drive a nice sports car, wear a spiky leather jacket and have a mohawk. If everyone else there looks to be 'normal' and wearing khakis and looking like yer average citizen, you can bet money that the cops won't catch on until it's too late.

It also works even better when the cops know and hate you and are waiting to bust you on anything because your a known local deviant.

Fight the power!
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Old 03-26-2006, 12:56 PM   #19
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That DOESN'T work if the cops are walking into bars and arresting you on suspicion of being drunk before you even get to your car.

Texas' legal system sucks ass!
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Old 03-26-2006, 06:33 PM   #20
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Another article on this. I love their reasoning this time...

http://news.**********/s/nm/20060323/...RpBHNlYwM3NTc-

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

X -

Are you telling me after one glass of wine with dinner you should be put in prison for six months? Thats the law. I'm not saying let people so pissed they can't walk get behind the wheel, just a few lads who have a beer or two at the pub after werk. You know each year the stats go up, and over-all the number of drunk drivers doesn't decrease and the number who cause accidents equal the ame amount percentage wise as they did back in the 60's.

Driving drunk is bad, but what is drunk? 0.08 which is now the national standard is one pint of lager, one shot of a spirit, or one glass of wine. That is what I say is crazy. That is what I help people fight against. Besides, here in Europe the cops are much more leiniant anyhow, if you can talk to them well enough and live close, most of the time they will follow you home and let you off. Tis the advantage of living in townse small enough so that all the cops know you and yer family by name.
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder
So turn the bar private, members only. Then it's no longer public. That's what they do around here. Alcohol laws are 2am here. So, the owners just lock their doors at 2am so that nobody else can come in, and they continue selling. Once you leave, you don't come back in.

But i'm not surprised. They're trying to make it illegal to smoke most anywhere you go, to include your own home in some places. so i won't be surprised if they start attacking alcohol too. this is just the first step.
Wow thats cool where the hell do you live.
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:56 PM   #22
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You know, or we could go all the way and prohibit cussing and loud music and public nudity. They're trying to get us down, Sternn! We should revolt and get arrested.

Well Im with you mostly but I cant stand when a car goes by that you can hear for blacks and its so loud that the car is rattleing so that all I hear is rattle. I mean if I have to hear a song then I want to hear the song and not the back windows vibrating.

But thats just me.
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:57 PM   #23
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Eh, I don't drink anymore.

The federal government will step in if things get too out of hand, I suspect.
Yeah but you still post on the internet - just wait till they step in because you getting out of hand on the internet ohhhhh dooohhhhhh they already want to do that - its called a law about being irratible on the net.

yep and then your thoughts will be a crime doooohhhhhhh already done that sooo uhhhhhh

dunno what else to say
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Old 03-26-2006, 08:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by edible_eye
here in massachusetts, the police wait in the parking lot. they watch people walk to their cars. they approach whomever they believe they'd like to test.

the law here states that a person must be behind the wheel of a running car, even if it's idling, before they can be arrested for driving while intoxicated.

arresting someone as a preventative measure is excessive, in my opinion. i can't believe a law like this was voted in in texas, before massachusetts - unless, of course, driving while intoxicated or public intoxication was something out of control and notably dangerous to the citizenry of texas.
I understand that law you speak of but I got lucky once. While in Reno I was Blitzed and on my way back to Sacramento through the treacherous mountain highway. I pulled over because I knew I couldnt do it. I didnt know it but a cop car was behind me and after I had turned off the car they approached me in the parking lot of a casino and asked me what I was doing. I told them the truth that I was Blitzed and was in no shape to take on the mountain pass. They appreciated that kindve honesty and put me in the back of their car and drove me to some God awfull part of Reno that I would never want to go to again. It took me all night walking around in circles to find my car by which time I was fully sober, tired and miserable. I learned my lesson and got home safely. I think they did the right thing although I'm not sure that is in the law book but it made sense to them then and to me now.

Common sense man.

Thats what is should be about. Sometimes the rules are stupid.
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Old 03-27-2006, 08:05 AM   #25
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Common sense is the key term here. I know lads who can take down a dozen pints and still walk a straight line and talk to you like they were stone sober while at the same time know lads who after one pint can't make it to the jacks without stumbling over a chair. The make a blanket law to prosecute them both equally is silly. Until the mid 70's, drunk driving was not a crime in the US. I remember an old episode of Quincy I watched the other day where a guy in court was trying to prove he WAS drunk as that was considered an 'accident' and he would be let off for running down a pedestrian.

If yer man is ok to drive you will know. If he's not, well then take his keys. If you can't tell then thats your issue. The laws in the states are not there to stop drunk drivers, they are there to make money. Heres why:

In most part of Europe including Ireland we have strict DUI laws. However, there are based on how bad you fail the road tests. If you can walk the line and speak clearly, chances are they will let you off with a warning. If you are really drunk, expect mandatory jail time.

In the states, there is very little mandatory jail time for DUI. You don't see people getting a year in prison for DUI. IF they really wanted to combat the problem, thats what they would do. In Germany, they have mandatory 2 years for some DUI offenses. In Germany the drunk driving rate is next to nil. In the states, you get fined like $1,200, have to pay another $1,000+ for VASAP, and then also have to pay for the monthly testings ($50 a week for the tests paid to the government) for random alcohol tests. After all that yer insurance doubles.

Everywhere else in the world they just give you a warning or throw you in prison for a while. Only in the states do they hit you in the pocket book and send you on yer way.

It's a cash cow for local government, plain and simple. As I mentioned I used to own a nightclub. The ABC (the agency that handles all the licensing and fines) works with the police to fnie drunk drivers in the state of virginia. They had sting operations in the parking lots - much like in the storey above they 'follow' drunks in pubs and clubs then ring the cops once they person heads outside so they can be done for DUI. During our legal battle, we prvoed that ABC agents lied in court multiple times under oath. But even more than that, in the records our lawyers were able to get, we found an interesting fact - in Virginia, DUI and alchol related fines counted for like 24% of the states operating budget. That means almost a quarter of the money needed for the state agencies to operate comes directly from DUI's, and fining clubs and pubs for selling liqour to drunks or underage kids. For reference, we had a case of an underaged girl drinking in the club. She was 17, had her identical sisters drivers license, and used it to get in and buy a beer while wearing a wire. For this, we were fined $4,500. Also note the girl had breast implants and looked like she was well into her 20's, like her sister. Entrapment? Maybe, but in the end, like the crazy laws we are discussing here, it all goes back to the government finding new sources of funding. And whos is going to fight against getting drunks off the streets and keeping children from byuing alcohol? They use these shady cases to bring in money then claim to do it in the name of justice.

In the end its all about the money, and they could give two shits about saving anyones life.
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