When Black Roses Bloom...

[BlackRose Knight]

Hi, my name is Steve and I am a Goth.

(group) "Hi, Steve!"

Well, now that we've gotten that over with, I'll try to tell you a little bit about myself.

For starters, I'm a 44 year old full time Costumer and Prop Maker from central New York, specializing in recreations of movie and TV costumes. I've always been the "creative" type (a typical Cancer), and when I was in college I studied drawing, painting, sculpture, and gold and silversmithing, etc., before finding my fellow art students too cliqueish and unfriendly, and discovering Theater Arts. Thankfully, this allowed me to discover the skills to make professional costumes ( and later props), something I'd been interested in since I was a child.

I tend to shy away from separating people into stereotypes, but I guess I would consider myself a "romantigoth", although on the street with my long hair I tend to be mistaken for more of a "rocker" type.


My interests include but are not limited to:

Movies, actors, actresses, models, cosplay, costumes, fashion, makeup, props, anime, swords, weapons, armor, goths, gothic lifestyle, design, fine art, fantasy art, erotic art, dragons, elves, myths, legends, fantasy, science fiction, makeup, sewing, painting, drawing, music, literature, pirates, knights, armor, leather, latex, fetish, vampires, anchient egypt, mythology, renaissance faires, Halloween, ghosts, computer games, Guild Wars, Bloodrayne, Tomb Raider, HALO.


Favorite Music:

Rock, Pop, Alternative, New Wave, Blues, Jazz, an occasional country song, Sting, David Bowie, Green Day, Counting Crows, Moby, Don Henley, The Cure, Meatloaf, Thomas Dolby, Blondie, The Cars, Barenaked Ladies, Nine Inch Nails, ******** Branch, The Clash, Devo, Jewel, Everclear, Midnight Syndicate, Pink, Yoko Kanno, Prodigy, Danny Elfman, Rod Stewart, Peter Gabriel, The Who, Rob Zombie, Madness, REM, Queen, Phil Collins, Duran Duran, Sarah McLaughlin, No Doubt, Gwen Stefani, Peter Cetera, Billy Joel, Pat Benatar, James Taylor, Evanescence, Joan Jett, Chicago, Huey Lewis, Five For Fighting, Foo Fighters, Gorillaz, Aerosmith, Falco, Bruce Springsteen, Enya, Eurythmics, Blink 182, 10, 000 Maniacs, Alanis Morisette, Avril Levigne, Billy Idol, Movie Soundtracks...


Favorite Books: Anything by R.A. Salvatore, or H.P. Lovecraft.


Favorite Movies:

Casablanca, Highlander, Indiana Jones, Aliens, Star Trek, Terminator, T2, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Tomb Raider, Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind, The Maltese Falcon, Regarding Henry, Evil Dead, Horror, Sci-Fi, Disney, Batman, Superman, Spider-man, any romantic comedy. ..


Favorite TV Shows:

Smallville, Supernatural, LOST, Heroes, Ghost Hunters, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, The Dresden Files, Penn and Teller's Bullshit.




Anything else you'd like to know, don't hesitate to ask...


~

[Madarame]

Hey, you seem pretty cool to me so welcome. You might want to be little careful of refering to yourself as a goth with music tastes like that though, you might want to check out the music section.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

Sting, David Bowie, Green Day, Counting Crows, Moby, Don Henley, The Cure, Meatloaf, Thomas Dolby, Blondie, The Cars, Barenaked Ladies, Nine Inch Nails, ******** Branch, The Clash, Devo, Jewel, Everclear, Midnight Syndicate, Pink, Yoko Kanno, Prodigy, Danny Elfman, Rod Stewart, Peter Gabriel, The Who, Rob Zombie, Madness, REM, Queen, Phil Collins, Duran Duran, Sarah McLaughlin, No Doubt, Gwen Stefani, Peter Cetera, Billy Joel, Pat Benatar, James Taylor, Evanescence, Joan Jett, Chicago, Huey Lewis, Five For Fighting, Foo Fighters, Gorillaz, Aerosmith, Falco, Bruce Springsteen, Enya, Eurythmics, Blink 182, 10, 000 Maniacs, Alanis Morisette, Avril Levigne, Billy Idol, Movie Soundtracks...

Well some of those artists are good (for example Enya, Sting, Bowie, duran duran), some of them are descent, and some of them I just don't like (for example green day, five for fighting,Levigne), but none of those are goth bands as far as I can see. Basicaly all you're listening to is stuff put out by Hollywood. You have to expand your music tastes to stuff that you will probobly never find on MTV. Please visit our music forum for your sake.

[HellforgedX]

Amen to that, Rennie. But welcome to the boards! Fantastic intro, I might add. Especially the TV part. Damn near the only TV I watch is Supernatural, Ghost Hunters, & Heroes. Try House on for size, too.

[BlkGothGrl]

Hello! And YAY for us older goths joining..... I may want to pick your brain on the costume thing; I'm in a band, and have *no* fashion sense...

[Renatus]

Ooh forgot to say welcome myself, heh yeah welcome I hope I didn't scare you there.

[††BlackRose††]

Welcome to the boards!!!
Yes, another person who loves Supernatural and Doctor Who! Oh and Battlestar Galactica is very good too.
I agree that the trip to the music page will be beneficial.
Well enjoy your stay.

[korinna5555]

Midnight Syndicate, Salvatore, and Lovecraft? I like you!
Welcome to the boards.

[BlackRose Knight]

Thank you all for the warm welcome.

Originally Posted by Madarame

Hey, you seem pretty cool to me so welcome. You might want to be little careful of refering to yourself as a goth with music tastes like that

I am sorry if my musical tastes don't fit into what a your concept of what a "real goth" should listen to. While I am always open to a new listening experience, please don't look down your nose at my personal taste. I'm not here for you to approve of who I am, I'm here to make new friends, not to conform to anyone's idea of who or what I should be. It's that kind of mind set that separates people from each other into cliques and stifles their individuality. Please don't be like that.

I am however always open to hearing new bands and styles of music, so I will definitely check out the music section. Thank you.


Peace



~ Steven

[Solumina]

Don't be put of by their criticism off your music choices, they do like to shove people over to the music boards (I myself hardly listen to any gothic music)

I must say that you seem like quite an interesting individual. Welcome, I'm sure you will get along quite well on the boards ^.^

[Madarame]

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

I am sorry if my musical tastes don't fit into what a your concept of what a "real goth" should listen to.

It isn't my idea of what goth is, a goth is somebody who listens to goth rock or subgenres considered the same sort of thing (deathrock, darkwave, bat cave ect) and thats it. How could it be my concept what goth is when the music genre itself predates even my existence by at least six years while the current meaning of goth came into usage while I was still a child.

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

While I am always open to a new listening experience, please don't look down your nose at my personal taste.

Please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't looking down my nose at you, I have no problems with your taste in music. The problem is simply that in the very first line of your post you proclaim yourself to be a goth and then you fail to list any goth music in your tastes. If you hadn't mentioned the word goth I wouldn't have mentioned your musical tases.

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

I'm not here for you to approve of who I am, I'm here to make new friends, not to conform to anyone's idea of who or what I should be.

I realise that and I do apologize if I have made you feel as though you have been negativley judged, and I hope that I havn't put you off making friends with people here or even for that matter with myself, as I said in my original post you seem pretty cool, I find your job to be very interesting and we share some similar interests.

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

It's that kind of mind set that separates people from each other into cliques and stifles their individuality. Please don't be like that.

I agree with the point about that mindset separating people, but I can't agree that it stifles individuality. I didn't say that you could only listen to goth music, or only watch/read/do (insert appropriatly gothy movies/books/activities here), if you had listed just one or two goth bands it would have been fine.


In closing, though I stand by my original statment I do apologise for the way it came across, from what I've gathered from lurking, these introductions are partly for keeping out the trolls and mallgoths, of which you are obviously neither and so I should have been alot nicer.

[gothicusmaximus]

I feel prior posters were merely observing that, while goth rock is the crux of the eponymous subculture, you, who don't seem to be a fan of that music, refer to yourself as a goth, which most would agree is a bit incongruous and peculiar. While you don't have to be a goth to post on gnet, to learn what general consensus holds a goth to be would probably serve you.

[Green.Lady]

Originally Posted by Renatus

but none of those are goth bands as far as I can see.

The Cure is actually on his list, but otherwise, none of the bands are particularly goth, no.

I go by the rule that a goth is an avid fan of gothic rock and/or its related genres, so I do agree with Renatus and Madarame on this one. It's not that you can't listen to Avril and Evanescence, but you need to show at least some knowledge and interest in goth music if you want to call yourself a goth. You may dress the part and like spooky stuff, but the thing that ties the goth community together is appreciation of the music.

Welcome anyhow.

[Solumina]

um...guys you know you all sound a bit bitchy about this right? Just chill about what is and isn't goth, everyone seems to have their own definition and it really doesn't matter

[MOUSEBLOOD]

Nothing funner than discussions on what is Goth and what isn't. I remember the scene back in the late 70's and early 80's. I never whould have believed that we would have so many genres, sub-genres, and sub-sub-genres.

[KontanKarite]

Pffffffftttt. Goth is lame.

Hate to break it to you guys, but for the most part "Goth" doesn't mean what it should mean anymore.

Let those who want to stifle themselves and quantify themselves call themselves goth.

For the rest of us... I would wager we don't need a silly G word to vindicate our existence. I'm... not a goth apparently.

[BlackRose Knight]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I feel prior posters were merely observing that, while goth rock is the crux of the eponymous subculture, you, who don't seem to be a fan of that music, refer to yourself as a goth, which most would agree is a bit incongruous and peculiar. While you don't have to be a goth to post on gnet, to learn what general consensus holds a goth to be would probably serve you.

All that would serve is to learn how to be a mindless sheep that follows the herd and conforms to whatever he's told he should be. Sorry if you're still at a point in your life where you feel complacent enough to do that, but I'm well past that and quite comfortable with who I am.

NOTE: Sometimes simply following the herd isn't a good thing. Think for yourself!


You might as well go to Hot Topic and buy a T-Shirt that reads "Im unique... Just like everyone else"...

[BlkGothGrl]

Originally Posted by MOUSEBLOOD

Nothing funner than discussions on what is Goth and what isn't. I remember the scene back in the late 70's and early 80's. I never whould have believed that we would have so many genres, sub-genres, and sub-sub-genres.

THANK YOU!

I still cannot grok the 'subgene' thing. Goth is goth; dark is dark... counterculture is still counterculture.


Yipes.

[Haex]

The operative definition of that word is is so ambiguous, that it makes it about as useful as saying 'I'm an American', without adopting a southern drawl. "...and it's judgment that defeats us."

Hi, Steve!

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by BlackRose Knight

All that would serve is to learn how to be a mindless sheep that follows the herd and conforms to whatever he's told he should be. Sorry if you're still at a point in your life where you feel complacent enough to do that, but I'm well past that and quite comfortable with who I am.

NOTE: Sometimes simply following the herd isn't a good thing. Think for yourself!


You might as well go to Hot Topic and buy a T-Shirt that reads "Im unique... Just like everyone else"...

I was just suggesting that perhaps making yourself aware of the definition which most members of the goth subculture attribute to the word 'goth' would help you communicate more facilely with other members of gnet and prevent confusion.
Let's face it, dude, words are defined by the consensus of the majority. To accept a commonly held defintion may be conformity, but not in a negative sense, and it certainly isn't complacency. For instance, should I decide that a 'cup' is a fingernail-sized fascimile of a manatee molded from glass, I'll understandably have difficulty having a conversation about cups with most english speaking people, who tend to agree that a 'cup' is a roughly cyndrical receptacle for liquid, typically that intended to be consumed as a beverage. You, apparently on your own, decided that goth meant something other than 'a fan of gothic rock', came to a forum frequented by individuals who define 'goth' in that way, and hence, your comments befuddled some people.
If you're really as 'comfortable with who you are' as you claim to be, I'm pretty sure you can cope with the idea that some members here may not consider you 'goth' in the conventional sense without launching personal attacks.

[Haex]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You, apparently on your own, decided that goth meant something other than 'a fan of gothic rock'...

I really doubt he came up with that definition on his own. I've not encountered the specific and polarized definition 'fan of gothic rock' that is being circulated on this thread at all, in any scene, besides on these forums. It appears to me that we have some feigning of ignorance for the purpose of making a debacle out of the OP's views.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Haex

I really doubt he came up with that definition on his own. I've not encountered the specific and polarized definition 'fan of gothic rock' that is being circulated on this thread at all, in any scene, besides on these forums.

Really? That's the definition of goth I've encountered most frequently next to 'homicidal, satan-worshipping, depressed teenager who loves Marilyn Manson', and certainly the most popular within the scene, at least in my experience.

Originally Posted by Haex

It appears to me that we have some feigning of ignorance for the purpose of making a debacle out of the OP's views.

'Making a debacle' is a bit hyperbolic, considering all I've done is explain the reason for which some people were confused by the OP's calling himself goth despite his not enjoying goth rock. In fact, BlackRose Knight himself, in rendering such clever arguments ad hominem as 'mindless sheep!', made the suggestion that he wasn't a 'real goth' in the eyes of some to be a bigger deal than any other poster ever insinuated it to be.

[Haex]

Quoting you was out of convenience, GM, since none of the other posters, Renatus or Madarame used such brevity; Though, I'm really not sure you represent their opinion. I apologize if it put you on the defensive. The only qualm I have is with the specificity of your definition, really. Though I lack the articulation to espouse my stance, I doubt any consensus could ever be reached about the subject, anyhow. This circumlocution cannot commence further 'till that time whence I can procure a thesaurus with preponderancy of breadth.

Hi, Steve!

[BlackRose Knight]

Hahahahahaha...

[L'Oiseau Noir]

You don't seem too bad a person, but I have a feeling we're not going to get along real well. Nonetheless, I too have an interest in theater arts, but not enough to pursue it as a full-time career later in my life. I'm more the writer type.

So.. yeah, welcome.