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Old 11-17-2006, 03:48 AM   #76
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No no, you got me wrong...

All of the people in a (same) subculture dress alike (they have the same style). But not every people that dress in the same style are from the same subculture... LOL this is more easier said in portuguese than in english...
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Old 11-17-2006, 04:03 PM   #77
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I always thought people in Portugal spoke Brazilian.
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( > < )
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-18-2006, 09:21 PM   #78
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Bunny.
Food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconysius
For me, when someone dresses the part without living it, it feels like the subculture, the lifestyle that I've become part of, is being bastardized, distorted, stolen from me.
Yeah, you see, I don't think I can understand that logic. I mean, this is your point of view, and I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't understand it.

The lifestyle you have valuable to you, I can understand that. Now, I don't know your history, so I'm just making a generalization; correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably got the information from someone else, correct? When I say information, I mean the sets of attitude, etc. You may have always had them, but never were they grouped into something, 'til you found the term.

So, someone else, has their own subculture, based off of yours. It may be just as valuable to them, as it is to yours. So while it may look like they bastardized your subculture, perhaps someone looks at you the same way?
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:03 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
I always thought people in Portugal spoke Brazilian.
Nope, people in Brasil speak portuguese
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:12 PM   #80
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Lies! All lies!
The bunny has spoken!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:20 PM   #81
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if you say so
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:22 PM   #82
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I like the emos. I kinda feel sorry for them, for some reason it's become cool to hate emo. I don't know why.
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Old 11-19-2006, 10:36 PM   #83
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I once had an emo taco.
It was doing great and then all of a sudden.
'BOOM"
It imploaded.

I pulled it out of its bag and it died.

It had so much to live for..what will Mrs.Taco do now?

Witch reminds me..a couple days ago these teenagers drove into Taco Bell.

No, I don't mean they went through the drive thru.


They actually....crashed into Taco Bell...

No tacos were injured though.

Only the teenagers.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:01 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatherzilla
I like the emos. I kinda feel sorry for them, for some reason it's become cool to hate emo. I don't know why.
Well, in music, I hate the lyrics. I find them shallow.

In clothing: Although there are some standards with the gothic subculture for example, there's still no dresscode for it. With emos, you can see a strict fashion code that must not be broken at all costs; this includes everything stated to be considered emo.

In lifestyle: This is why I don't give much shit to a person in particular that calls himself emo until I meet him. But I don't like the essence of emo mentality. Keep in mind I'm not stereotyping; I'm generalizing.
Depressive moods, higher estrogen than an average woman (in the guys), constant whining, stupid and childish obsession with suicide...

Weak, weak, weak, stupid, weak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:17 PM   #85
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Emo=ex friend of mine. it defines her well.
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:17 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatherzilla
I like the emos. I kinda feel sorry for them, for some reason it's become cool to hate emo. I don't know why.
tell me about it
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:28 AM   #87
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I don't mind some emos it's just that round here it's 'cool' to be emo so most people dress that way just to fit in. The other thing I don't like is that my mate decided to wear converse shoes to school the other day and the next day everyone was calling her emo.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:56 AM   #88
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But... I have converse shoes. And they're pink.


..oh, dear gods! I must be emo!



Seriously, sweetie, the kids at your school must be really stupid. You may want to consider switching schools. You don't want to get the same education they're apparently receiving, do you?
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:04 PM   #89
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I have converse shoes aswell - red
and yeah most of them are stupid
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:24 PM   #90
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Emo kids piss me off. Anything to do with Emo should go straight to the Whining category.

i hate them because they're helping to kill punk...so they can all go to hell!
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:30 AM   #91
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we're not killing punk.
we don't want to be considered punk, emo is a new subculture and it has nothing to do with punk except eventually some similar clothing assets and music.
you know pretty well that being part of a subculture is not only similar clothes and/or similar music. It's much more than that. It's an attitude, a life style and god knows what more.
The wannabes are the ones who are ruining it, they think it's only that and when some new subculture shows up they'll switch to it and you'll start hating the new subculture.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:57 AM   #92
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But emo isn't new. Real emo, that is. It's been around since the mid-80s. This new thing that's popped up, sure, it may be called "emo," but it isn't.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:04 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
In lifestyle: This is why I don't give much shit to a person in particular that calls himself emo until I meet him. But I don't like the essence of emo mentality. Keep in mind I'm not stereotyping; I'm generalizing.
Generalization is a pretty way of saying stereotyping.
Stereotyping is the habit of attaching an uncritical, uncomplimentary or generalized label to a person, race, idea, or the like. For example, Jews were stereotyped as money-hungry. (dhrc.wright.edu/faces/glossary.htm)

Quote:
Depressive moods, higher estrogen than an average woman (in the guys), constant whining, stupid and childish obsession with suicide...
Yeah, meanwhile Goth has "Dark" moods, higher estrogen than an average woman (In the Guys), constant whining (Especially about people who whine, and other cultures that come anywhere close to theirs, or incorporate any of the aspects), and a childish obsession with all things dark, the morbid, and old literature.

That's if were generalizing, of course.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:11 PM   #94
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If you're trying to shoot down my point, you're not doing a good job, because I do agree with your generalization of Goth.
The difference between stereotyping and generalizing is that stereotyping is making a premature assumption beginning on you own self, judging another person by your standards; meanwhile, generalizing is a premature assumption of a person due to experience.
I have met emo kids before. I would be an idiot not to generalize his behavior according to what I have learned from other poeple like him; especially because I'll be probably right with my assumption.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:49 PM   #95
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Quote:
If you're trying to shoot down my point, you're not doing a good job, because I do agree with your generalization of Goth.
Which, in my opinion, isn't that far off from "Emo", with only a few slight modifications.

Quote:
The difference between stereotyping and generalizing is that stereotyping is making a premature assumption beginning on you own self, judging another person by your standards; meanwhile, generalizing is a premature assumption of a person due to experience.
Which doesn't take into account individual differences. Stereotyping can include personal experiences.

Actually, from what dictionary standpoints I have, they're the same.

Ergo, this:
"A process of generalization by which an entire group is found to be at fault because of the actions of a few of their members."
That's the definition for Stereotyping by Religious Tolerance (www.religioustolerance.org/gl_s1.htm)

"An exaggerated image of the characteristics of a particular group. Phrase coined by Walter Lippmann (1922) to describe “pictures in our head”
www.uihome.uidaho.edu/default.aspx

Quote:
I have met emo kids before. I would be an idiot not to generalize his behavior according to what I have learned from other poeple like him; especially because I'll be probably right with my assumption.
I've met Evangelicals before. Does that mean I understand them? Why they do what they do? What drives them? How their system works? What shaped them? What made them?
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:02 PM   #96
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I find the generalization between emo and goth is almost identical, though they were 10 years apart...

What I mean is, I hear people nowadays making fun of emo kids saying stuff like, "Oh, emo kid, why don't you go cry and smear your eye-liner and write depressing poems and listen to HIM while you sit in a bath-tub cutting yourself?" When I was still in high school, I heard the same thing said about goth. Except "emo" was "goth" and "HIM" was "Marilyn Manson."
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:19 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splintered
I've met Evangelicals before. Does that mean I understand them? Why they do what they do? What drives them? How their system works? What shaped them? What made them?
Haha, I love your discussions; if only people like you lived around here.
Anyway, yes: meeting Evangelicals before does mean that you can get a grasp of what they do, what drives them, what makes them, et cetera.
That's the whole essence of experience.

Just think about this:
The beauty of erasing your mind from personal bias and experience is that you do not judge people, and are absolutely open to meeting them.
But this is a double-edge standard.
If you do not trust your personal experiences and biases, you could have no friendships. If you didn't presuppose what a said friend will act like in the future based on what you've seen of him, then you cannot say he will be nice to you.
There is nothing that tells you he might be a bitch or the nicest person in the world. Ergo, you cannot consider him a friend because you cannot say what his next act towards you will be until he does it.
This doesn't mean a perfect open mind must be pessimist in itself. But as far as optimism goes, you would have to say "There's the possibility that we will be friends tomorrow like we were yesterday".
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:47 PM   #98
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Quote:
The beauty of erasing your mind from personal bias and experience is that you do not judge people, and are absolutely open to meeting them.
But this is a double-edge standard.
If you do not trust your personal experiences and biases, you could have no friendships. If you didn't presuppose what a said friend will act like in the future based on what you've seen of him, then you cannot say he will be nice to you.
There is nothing that tells you he might be a bitch or the nicest person in the world. Ergo, you cannot consider him a friend because you cannot say what his next act towards you will be until he does it.
This doesn't mean a perfect open mind must be pessimist in itself. But as far as optimism goes, you would have to say "There's the possibility that we will be friends tomorrow like we were yesterday".
But, that requires that you meet that person. I'd contend that many people are very different from each other. So, while you may be able to predict one's personal behavior, you'd have a hard time predicting what what the person next to them's behavior will be.

A very easy example of this, would be musical tastes.
Say you have two people in a group. This group shares many common interests, and are easily identifiable as a group. Yet, say Person A is likes death metal, and is an addicted Bolt Thrower fan. Person B also likes death metal, but doesn't particularly like Bolt Thrower. Instead, Person B likes Napalm Death instead. It's a very basic difference, but these fundamental variations can lead to massive actual differences. For instance, I can say Person A will like Bolt Thrower, through personal experience, and through a repeated processes of generalization, because I can figure out the pattern pretty well. This doesn't apply to Person B.

Now, onto establishing bases on Evangelicals. Using the music analogy, we can ask why Person A and B, can share a common band. While they both might like Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death respectively, let's say that they have a common factor, Iced Earth, which they both love. Yet, why do they like the same band? Person A, could have completely different reasons for why they like Iced Earth (Their father listended to that band, and after he died, they continued listening to it in their memory), as opposed to Person B (They were dealing heavily with the birth of America, and couldn't express the foundation in a glorified means, until hearing "Declaration Day" off of "The Glorious Burden", which then got them addicted, and consequently had them spending four hours listening to the same song about Gettysburg.)
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:22 AM   #99
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Ah, I see you point and the conflict between our statements.
Generalization is not good when you encompass the whole persona based on what little you know about his tastes.
But I always generalize on a specific facet of a person's character.
I don't know much about death metal, so I'll just use the classics of heavy metal (Iron Maiden, Metallica, Judas Priest...)
You see a person listening to Metallica, and you know he also likes the other two bands.
You see another person listening to Iron Maiden. You take a guess that he might like Judas Priest and Metallica. So far it's only a guess. People cannot avoid taking guesses of what people are like.
But guess what: you were right and he enjoys the three bands.
You see these pattern more than often; when you see someone liking one of these bands, they also like the other two.
Then, one day you meet another guy. You begin talking about Judas Priest. You run out of conversation on the Judas Priest topic. You remember there's going to be a Metallica concert in four months.
You have already assumed by experience that he might most probably like Metallica, and you ask him if he's going to the concert.

Now you have established a clear pattern. Let's assign them the term Metallers. You definition of a Metaller is one that likes these three bands. By experience, you know that if a person likes one of the bands, he is probably what you would call a Metaller.

Just as well, you can recognize a person, wearing a Mohawk, DIY clothes, combat boots, and more metal in safety pins than you have in your car, as probably being a Punk. And you won't be saying "Hmm... I think he might be a Punk." You'll just be saying "Cool, a Punk."

You can do the same with a Goth, and an Emo.
You know absolutely nothing about their personal lives, and yes, one would be arrogant to assume so, but you can take an estimated guess on his character based on what you know in the manner he acts, comparing it to the characters of others who act in the same fashion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:56 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
You see a person listening to Metallica, and you know he also likes the other two bands.
You see another person listening to Iron Maiden. You take a guess that he might like Judas Priest and Metallica. So far it's only a guess. People cannot avoid taking guesses of what people are like.
But guess what: you were right and he enjoys the three bands.
You see these pattern more than often; when you see someone liking one of these bands, they also like the other two.
Then, one day you meet another guy. You begin talking about Judas Priest. You run out of conversation on the Judas Priest topic. You remember there's going to be a Metallica concert in four months.
You have already assumed by experience that he might most probably like Metallica, and you ask him if he's going to the concert.
Yet, this hopes that there's a correlation.
If off the bat, you can't get a good on average "Person likes Iron Maiden, they like all the others", then it falls.


Quote:
Now you have established a clear pattern. Let's assign them the term Metallers. You definition of a Metaller is one that likes these three bands. By experience, you know that if a person likes one of the bands, he is probably what you would call a Metaller.
Yet, he may vehemently hate one of the other bands. So, does that qualify them as a metalhead?

Quote:
Just as well, you can recognize a person, wearing a Mohawk, DIY clothes, combat boots, and more metal in safety pins than you have in your car, as probably being a Punk. And you won't be saying "Hmm... I think he might be a Punk." You'll just be saying "Cool, a Punk."
Yet, he or she may consider themselves to be some offshoot of punk, or go under a different name. They might disdain the name punk altogether, and go into a different categorization.

For instance, someone may have limited experience with the differences between "Punk", "Goth", and "Emo". So, they might look at someone dressed like what you described, and immediately go "Goth", instead of punk. They are still generalizing, but according to you, would be incorrect.

Quote:
You can do the same with a Goth, and an Emo.
You know absolutely nothing about their personal lives, and yes, one would be arrogant to assume so, but you can take an estimated guess on his character based on what you know in the manner he acts, comparing it to the characters of others who act in the same fashion.
But how can this be applied? There would be too many variables to the way they could act, to accurately predict how they might recieve any type of stimuli. So, from your experience, you might meet three people in a row, who fall under some classification, and they are just plain assholes to you. Yet, person four, may be very nice to you, and open minded to what you believe as well.
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