Just because...

[Memento Mori]

Just because I said i'm a true goth and then didn't mention much about it doesn't mean I'm not. And just because I have an extreme love/ obbsession with My Chemical Romance and Gerard Way doesn't mean I'm not goth either. I'm very much into goth. And I know what goth is.

Goth isn't really explainable...that, to me, is like trying to explain God. (Btw, I don't believe in God, I'm just refering to something else that people find hard to explain.) Anyway the closest explaination I can come up with, without the aid of "The Goth Bible" is: Goth is a state of mind, and a way of expressing ones individuality. It's a lifestlye that embraces what the mundane shun and/or fear. It is like living, breathing darkness. It's not meant to harm or do wrong it's just a lifestlye. It sprung up from punk, but the original Goth goes back to the visigoths and ostrogoths (spelling?). It is a free spirited, dark, sorrow encumbering way of thinking and living.

That's all I've got right now. Because like I said I don't have "The Goth Bible" to reference from, even though I know all of that Nancy Kilpatrick just says it all better then I can.

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Memento Mori

Just because I said i'm a true goth and then didn't mention much about it doesn't mean I'm not. And just because I have an extreme love/ obbsession with My Chemical Romance and Gerard Way doesn't mean I'm not goth either. I'm very much into goth. And I know what goth is.

That's all I've got right now. Because like I said I don't have "The Goth Bible" to reference from, even though I know all of that Nancy Kilpatrick just says it all better then I can.

So you've made it clear that you can paraphrase an author, but you still haven't named a single goth band that you listen to, or exactly what makes you a "true" goth.

[LadyLucretia]

From another thread:

Ok, in my indrodution post alot of people talked about Sisters of Mercy or whatever it is, and alot of other gothic bands (I'm guessing). So since I know none of them I would like anyone who feels nice enough to liat all their favorite gothic bands. Thank you.

If the words "Sisters of Mercy or whatever it is" are coming out of your brain, I think it's safe to say that all this "true goth" talk is just that - talk.

[Ishkabibble]

Why don't you try to elaborate on how your concept of goth defines you? Even if you keep claiming you're another one in this subculture, we've yet to see you show something concerning goth.

[KontanKarite]

I might regret this in the morning...

Fuck you, man.

[Breathless Horror]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I might regret this in the morning...

Fuck you, man.

I doubt you will, it seems well deserved.

Haha, "Tolerance is the key" followed by "fuck you, man". Oh Kontan, how I love you.

[Graveyard.Crow]

You people place way too much importance on this stuff. It's annoying but it's not that big of a deal if someone doesn't know a Gothic band. List one instead of being a-holes. You weren't born knowing this stuff either.

[Breathless Horror]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

You people place way too much importance on this stuff. It's annoying but it's not that big of a deal if someone doesn't know a Gothic band. List one instead of being a-holes. You weren't born knowing this stuff either.

No, I wasn't born knowing it. I also didn't come here touting myself as a "real goth not the high school poseur bullshit". I came with humility asking to be taught. But, since you do have a valid point, I will list some bands.

Christian Death
London After Midnight
Siouxsie and The Banshees
Alien Sex Fiend
Dead Can Dance

[Graveyard.Crow]

Just because you were unable to see my point does not mean I did not have one. My point it, who the hell cares. In all truth, SO WHAT this person said they are "real goth"? This doesn't effect you, this doesn't ruin anyone's life and I'm getting tired of everyone making such a big deal out of it.
If I say I'm a banana will everyone get all uppity on me about that too?

[KontanKarite]

I simply get tired of people using "goth" as a power word. As you said, Miss Crow, people need to get over themselves.

And yes, Breathless Horror, tolerance is the key. But really, how can I really say this guy is a "true goth" without being patronizing?

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

SO WHAT this person said they are "real goth"? This doesn't effect you, this doesn't ruin anyone's life and I'm getting tired of everyone making such a big deal out of it.

It matters because if they're touting themselves as a "true goth" here they're probably also saying it elsewhere. We don't need any more misinformed teenagers playing ambassador to our subculture. These same types of kids come to my club night and criticize the DJs for not playing enough Rammstein/Manson/etc. and quite honestly - I'm sick of it. It shows a lack of commitment/research skills to claim to be something without understanding what that something is. I don't waltz into, say, welding communities calling myself an expert welder when I don't know the first thing about the subject.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Memento Mori, you have no other reasons for saying that you're a 'true goth' except that you call yourself one?
That's a pretty weak argument.
You can't call yourself a goth just because you felt like it and expect us to take you seriously.

I can call myself God. That doesn't mean shit to other people.

[ForgetThisLostLenore]

You do have a point. And I've met people who claim to be "true goths" or "real goths" or announce that they are the gothiest people in the vicinity. And it looks bad for the rest of us, because when you ask them what their favorite Bauhaus song is, they look dumbfounded and ask who the hell you're talking about, and tell you they only listen to Marilyn Manson, the real goth king.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I can call myself God.

It... It was you all along? It all makes sense now! I feel so... Enlightened!

*gets on knees and worships*

[Valerius]

You notice the recent flush of newbies sticking tags all over themselves with big bold letters the word 'goth'? Yeah well I have! It ain't funny. I mean fuck, what is the point of this thread anyway? I know you may feel like convincing yourself that you really are goth, but actions speak louder than words, and it's up to you to walk the walk instead of just talking the talk.

Till then, you're just a spooky kid wanting to fit in.

[KontanKarite]

Nah. Memento Mori is a goth. Fuck it...

[kimaru]

It's funny when people give themself a title and expect others to belive it, Like "best breaker dancer in the world" then you ask them to dance and they dance terrible....

...umm...what was the topic of this thread again? I think I got off track....

[DarkGentleman]

Originally Posted by ForgetThisLostLenore

You do have a point. And I've met people who claim to be "true goths" or "real goths" or announce that they are the gothiest people in the vicinity. And it looks bad for the rest of us, because when you ask them what their favorite Bauhaus song is, they look dumbfounded and ask who the hell you're talking about, and tell you they only listen to Marilyn Manson, the real goth king.

That's what hits the nerve when I hear the same thing.

"Manson as the true goth king?!!" Oh Pluuueeeezzzze ::rolls eyes::

Don't get me wrong, but if someone listens to Manson, ok fine and that's their business. But to say that he is the goth king, there's something wrong with that picture.

[DarkGentleman]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I can call myself God.

:: get on knees next to Cyntrox and joins the worship ::

[Graveyard.Crow]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I simply get tired of people using "goth" as a power word. As you said, Miss Crow, people need to get over themselves.

And yes, Breathless Horror, tolerance is the key. But really, how can I really say this guy is a "true goth" without being patronizing?

Oh my god exactly. Goth isn't a power word, it's not meant to justify your existence.
Honestly I'm getting the feeling that no one or almost no one REALLY like the music, they just want to name the right bands to impress their "goth" buddies.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Just because you were unable to see my point does not mean I did not have one. My point it, who the hell cares. In all truth, SO WHAT this person said they are "real goth"? This doesn't effect you, this doesn't ruin anyone's life and I'm getting tired of everyone making such a big deal out of it.
If I say I'm a banana will everyone get all uppity on me about that too?

No one will care if you claim to be a banana, because bananas are, most likely, absolutely meaningless to them. Yet falsely claiming to be a goth can be offensive in the same way as someone falsely claiming to be part of your family, if distanced. There's something due to the person who knows what it is and goes about their way doing so, that is not deserved by the person who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

It's just that ignorance and blatant disregard for our ways and interests can be a bit irksome, is all. The concept isn't anything new to humanity, really.

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Honestly I'm getting the feeling that no one or almost no one REALLY like the music, they just want to name the right bands to impress their "goth" buddies.

I like that you don't place all of the importance on booksmarts and mimicry, and I indeed respect the point you are making. However, I think one should be at least a little protective of that which they love.

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Honestly I'm getting the feeling that no one or almost no one REALLY like the music, they just want to name the right bands to impress their "goth" buddies.

If you had any idea how much time and money my friends and I have spent record shopping/going to shows in other states or countries/promoting goth nights/booking goth bands/running shows and club nights/talking for hours and hours about bands/etc. I doubt you'd still feel this way. There will *always* be scene queens in every scene who just care about goth points and status, but this is more the exception than the rule.

[Necropolis]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

If I say I'm a banana will everyone get all uppity on me about that too?

I demand you write a thesis about what makes you a true banana and not just some random plantain.

[ForgetThisLostLenore]

i'll believe that you are a banana

[Godslayer Jillian]

I, as a real banana, feel offended by that!

P.S. Bananas are goth!