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Old 11-20-2005, 10:34 PM   #1
Matr
 
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Columbine and the MallGoth

Today, there was a shootout at a mall in Tacoma, Washington. This story brought me back, to all the shootouts of the past, the ones that I can atleast remember. I have always pondered this question, even before I could fully understand exactly what was going on during the columbine shootouts. Looking around my school, I see many thousands of kids, listening to heavy metal, and spouting out that they are gothic, etc, etc, all the typical signs of the So-Called "MallGoth". For those of you who do not know what a MallGoth is, in basic terms, it is someone who is only Gothic to skindeep levels, so that he or she may feel more, how do I word this, "alike", with the darker side of the world.

Looking around, this seems to all trace back to the poorly executed Columbine shootout. From most of the MallGoths, who would despise the name, they seem to trace thier ideals back to that fateful day, simply because they wish to become a terrorizing force. For some reason they are instinctually driven to make it so that others fear them. This brings me to wonder, what purpose does that serve? Why would they wish to become in like with the two men who ended lives, and wounded others, and forever brought a curse to America?

For some reason, those who I look at, who claim to be Gothic, only started being Gothic, right after Columbine. They look upon that day as thier "Awakening", leaving them, in my eyes, nothing more than a cult. Is it just me, and possibly the enviroment that I live in, to believe that all MallGoths, who are perhaps with the ability to become full fledged Goths, given the right direction, simply wish to reenact columbine?

Then, that makes me wonder, why does no one do it? Why has no one actually emphisized on a full fledged, planned, assualt on a school? Why hasn't there been a coalition of several of the cultish followers of Klebold and Harris suddenly pop up out of nowhere, brandishing the basic weapons, and commit another massacre? Is it just a countdown until a school-doomsday, where everyone wishes to kill everyone else, an explosion of force and violence that brings death to hundreds? It is said that in columbine, had the bombs that the boys made, gone off, many more would have died. Why hasn't it happend, if so many people follow them?

Perhaps I am just mistaken, and mallgoths have nothing to do with school shootouts? Maybe it is just thier insecurities rising? Perhaps I am mistaken, and they are infact truely goths, but I am too blind to see it? Who knows, but is there anyone on this site, who has an opinion, as to why I am seeing these connections, or if there is an answer? Maybe it is just the political rebellious atmosphere of nowaday, or, perhaps it is nothing less than my imagination.
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Old 11-20-2005, 10:56 PM   #2
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*shakes head* I can't even begin to start on this one tonight.... I have school in the morning......
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Old 11-20-2005, 10:59 PM   #3
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Matr...?

You are ignored already.
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Old 11-20-2005, 11:10 PM   #4
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Jeez - where to begin...

Quote:
Today, there was a shootout at a mall in Tacoma, Washington. This story brought me back, to all the shootouts of the past, the ones that I can atleast remember. I have always pondered this question, even before I could fully understand exactly what was going on during the columbine shootouts. Looking around my school, I see many thousands of kids, listening to heavy metal, and spouting out that they are gothic, etc, etc, all the typical signs of the So-Called "MallGoth". For those of you who do not know what a MallGoth is, in basic terms, it is someone who is only Gothic to skindeep levels, so that he or she may feel more, how do I word this, "alike", with the darker side of the world.
That's terrible about the shooting. I've been through Tacoma many times but have never stopped at the mall. I don't care for malls. Still, for as long as there have been kids and a generational gap between kids and parents (meaning pretty much forever) there has been rebellion. Kids, teens, whatever, will often latch onto whatever it is that shocks their gullible close minded parents. This is nothing new. Sometimes some of these kids are fucking nutjobs and do something so horrid that it causes the entire associated youth social circle (whatever it is) to recieve massive negative media attention. This, in turn, brings in a second generation of followers that want, again, to shock and offend authority figures - just because.


Quote:
Looking around, this seems to all trace back to the poorly executed Columbine shootout. From most of the MallGoths, who would despise the name, they seem to trace thier ideals back to that fateful day, simply because they wish to become a terrorizing force. For some reason they are instinctually driven to make it so that others fear them. This brings me to wonder, what purpose does that serve? Why would they wish to become in like with the two men who ended lives, and wounded others, and forever brought a curse to America?
I don't think this is entirely true. There may be truth to it - but I'd blame the negative spin on gothy kids by the media after the fact as the culprit than the act itself. See above for why. At that general time frame - before actually - there were also many other explosions in popularity of the whole "Goth" thing, and I use the term losely, through movies, music, comics, and other medium that pushed the "Goth scene" into mainstream culture. Gave it an official label of it's very own - w00t w00t. And... The kids at columbine were certainly NOT men. Nothing even close. I don't have words to describe how disgustingly weak and foolsih boys they were.

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For some reason, those who I look at, who claim to be Gothic, only started being Gothic, right after Columbine. They look upon that day as thier "Awakening", leaving them, in my eyes, nothing more than a cult. Is it just me, and possibly the enviroment that I live in, to believe that all MallGoths, who are perhaps with the ability to become full fledged Goths, given the right direction, simply wish to reenact columbine?
Again I don't think this is the case. the timing may be there but I think - and sincerely hope - that that's all it is. Simple timing. I really don't think even 1% of your "Mallgoths" have the fortitude, genuine hatred, and mental aptitude to seriously consider reenacting suck a horrible incident.

Quote:
Then, that makes me wonder, why does no one do it? Why has no one actually emphisized on a full fledged, planned, assualt on a school? Why hasn't there been a coalition of several of the cultish followers of Klebold and Harris suddenly pop up out of nowhere, brandishing the basic weapons, and commit another massacre? Is it just a countdown until a school-doomsday, where everyone wishes to kill everyone else, an explosion of force and violence that brings death to hundreds? It is said that in columbine, had the bombs that the boys made, gone off, many more would have died. Why hasn't it happend, if so many people follow them?
Are you asking for it to happen? Maybe it will maybe it won't. There have been far worse tragedies that have happened in schools - some seriously nasty massacres in classrooms going back as far as classrooms go. Just cause one kid with a spiked bracelet and a Slipknot t-shirt goes nuts and starts shooting does not - and I mean NOT - mean that there are thousands of followers ready and willing to do the same. this is not Natural Born Killers. Most of the MallGoths are decent kids that simply haven't got enough self awareness to make their own decisions - let alone pull off a horrific incident.


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Perhaps I am just mistaken, and mallgoths have nothing to do with school shootouts? Maybe it is just thier insecurities rising? Perhaps I am mistaken, and they are infact truely goths, but I am too blind to see it? Who knows, but is there anyone on this site, who has an opinion, as to why I am seeing these connections, or if there is an answer? Maybe it is just the political rebellious atmosphere of nowaday, or, perhaps it is nothing less than my imagination.
Mallgoths have nothing to do with school shootouts, any more than MallHoochieMamas have to with gang banger drive by's... They are not True Goths - if there even is such a thing. We've argued that in other threads for years. And again - it's not just nowadays. Think gangsters, rockers, greasers, punks, hippies, goths, I can't even think of them all... labeled youth "social groups" that have been considered the harbingers of doom in modern society over the decades. Don't get sucked into the marketing hype of it all. There are good people and bad people everywhere - no matter what they dress like.

The real question of: Why and how did these unstable kids ever get access to guns or other instruments of destruction? Well that's an excellent question that I can't answer and the media is unable or unwiling to really ask.
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:29 AM   #5
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I can't understand what to say, mixed emotions about this one.
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Old 11-21-2005, 02:03 PM   #6
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I read up about that Tacoma, Washington shootout, and specifically read that the man was wearing a dress shirt and a tie.

What the hell does it have to do with goths, whether in malls or not?
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:19 PM   #7
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Well, first Manimal, thanks for the reply, I'll attempt to get back to that, once I get everything figured out.

And as to Secretboy, since when does it matter what a goth wears? Last time I checked, your "Goth With a Sledgehammer", said that Goths don't neccesarily have to wear anything?

Now, as to how the kids get access to the weapons, well, I have found a number of ways:
1. Theft - Steal the gun, from anyone, anywhere.
2. Parents own the gun, and in unlocked case.
3. Homemade weapons.
4. Friends.
5. Just randomly stumbling on one [It can happen].
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:26 PM   #8
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The point of the shootout in Tacoma was an intro. And as to the proof point, I ask you, what was your proof that he wasn't? Or why does he have to be? Even though the subject did involve the man in tacoma, it was more aimed to come into shootouts, etc, and the point of the story was to ask, is it that many MallGoths are coming from Columbine? And I believe Manimal answered that quite well.
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:31 PM   #9
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You could call it fluff, but then, it would also make me wonder if this event, along with every other shootout, battle, conquest, wasn't sponsored by some hate within us, that is universal, and seems to be the basis for the dark stereotype goth's seem to have [From my experience, I am not claiming that all goths are neccesarily dark].
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matr
You could call it fluff, but then, it would also make me wonder if this event, along with every other shootout, battle, conquest, wasn't sponsored by some hate within us, that is universal, and seems to be the basis for the dark stereotype goth's seem to have [From my experience, I am not claiming that all goths are neccesarily dark].
I'm confused. So you have someone who doesn't appear to be goth, and there doesn't seem to be any goth backlash about, or even anyone else mentioning the word 'goth' in association, yet somehow...as far as I can tell...you're connecting it to goths.

Let me go to cnn.com. Let's see...the top headline is about Richard Cheney, titled "Cheney: War debate legitimate" - what does this say about goths like our vice president, and what does it say about goths in general that they are saying the war debate is legitimate?

As for your other point -- is it something in society? I doubt it. The thing is, some people are just wired wrong. Antisocial Personality Disorder has always been around and will likely be around for a while longer. These things happen.
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:39 PM   #11
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I draw wierd connections, what can I say? The way I draw the connection is like this,

Dark Nature --> Violence --> Stereotypical Goth --> MallGoth --> Student -->Columbine
---------------------------------------------------------->Columbine

That's how I draw the connection. You see, I aassort a dark nature with violence, which is usually a trademark of a stereotypical goth, which are commonly called MallGoths, atleast in my area, and the violence, combined with the typical mallgoth, forms into columbine?

If you can somehow make a different way, so that these things aren't connected, please, by all means, the more I learn, the better I am.
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:55 PM   #12
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Oh boy, now it gets down to "define goth". Listen, if you want to call that guy in the mall a goth, than any Tom Dick or Harry that shoots a place up is a goth, aren't they?

Yeah, violence exists in all humans. We all have the potential to kill, it just depends on experiences. Read some B.F.Skinner or Sartre. They explain things nicely ^_^
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Old 11-21-2005, 04:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matr
That's how I draw the connection. You see, I aassort a dark nature with violence, which is usually a trademark of a stereotypical goth, which are commonly called MallGoths, atleast in my area, and the violence, combined with the typical mallgoth, forms into columbine?
Well, the columbine kids weren't even goth. One of the kids was into KMDFM, an industrial band -- and they were sort of vaguely associated with a group of kids, some of which were goth, who were older and graduated a year before.

One, Eric Harris, was obviously messed up in the head, with a lot of grandiose feelings and an incredible lack of basic empathy for anyone outside of himself. Dylan Kliebold was a misguided kid with a lot of issues with anger, and it's very possible that if he had not associated himself with Eric Harris he would never have done anything bad outside of a few awkward fistfights.

The painting of 'goths' with the Columbine tragedy was the work of the media picking up on the statements of a few people who profited immensely by finding targets for the anger of people who didn't understand what happened.

--

As far as 'dark natures' -- dark natures don't equate with anger and rage. Much like death does not explicitly equal murder (though it can) anger can be a dark nature but not all dark nature is wrath.

I would say that a lot of people who identify with the so-called gothic lifestyle understand that there is a darker, or even shadowy nature to life. They don't pretend it doesn't exist or pretend everything is light and fluffy. But that doesn't mean that they actively seek it out.
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Old 11-21-2005, 06:43 PM   #14
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the man left a note prior to his rampage, saying in part, according to the news - "... soon, the world will know the depths of my anger".

it's just some angry piece of shit we'll all have to support in prison with our tax dollars 'til the day he dies, rather than ridding the earth of his worthless hide and sparing us the burden. who cares what ideals, beliefs, principles, etc. he ascribes to? he's a murderer.

why do we need to keep him alive, now that he's clearly made the move to show he cares not for human life and has no qualms about taking it from others?
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Old 11-21-2005, 06:52 PM   #15
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stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
ignorant fucker.
stop breathing my air and think before you open your mouth.
matr, you are a stupid, ignorant, narrowminded fool, you dont even deserve a proper response untill you grow a brain.
touchy f**kin' subject.
idiot.
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Old 11-21-2005, 08:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
Touchy? Are you ok, hun?

This sounds like personal experience.

muh.............not going there today sorry.
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Old 11-21-2005, 08:10 PM   #17
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you're cool sweetie, just don't like people who parade their ignorance around like its' a badge of honour.
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Old 11-21-2005, 10:17 PM   #18
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All I can say now, is thanks, you've opened my eyes.
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Old 11-21-2005, 10:21 PM   #19
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Yeah - sorry guys - many great points about the absurdity of it all - I shouldn't have been so polite from the get go... just me trying to be the voice of reason again.
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Old 11-21-2005, 10:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matr
All I can say now, is thanks, you've opened my eyes.

is this sarcasm or sincerity? i can't tell.
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Old 11-24-2005, 09:01 AM   #21
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damn this is wrong talkin' about them like this.
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:11 AM   #22
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Again, you are not making any sense. A nice action against the 'normals'? Shooting and killing innocent people is just plain evil and has no defense. The Columbine murders were commited by two teens who were so weak that they couldn't handle being teased and made fun of so they decided to shoot people instead of dealing with their problems in a rational way.

If you think the majority of goths are 'shit' then why in the hell are you here? You think that your pseudo intellectual statements hold any merrit? Think again, because you sound like nothing more than an angsty kid sitting home behind his computer.

You are an idiot.
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
i felt that Columbine was a nice retaliatory action against the “normals”.
Way to start. So shooting normal angsty teens like you is quite alright, huh?

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Originally Posted by Mutant
What i find disturbing isnt school shootings or mass murder, its psuedo intelectual goths who run around trying to make all the “normal” people approve of them.
You're right, how can the death of anyone compare to a goth's existencial crisis? Damn, you're deepm kid.

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There is a war here, between the stagnant social clones and most anyone socialy unacceptable.
Nope, there's a war on ignorance and prejudice, and you seem to be proof of rational and reason losing some of the battkes on this war.

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Originally Posted by Mutant
The socalled victims of columbine were if victims at all, only victims of a bigoted society that persecutes people for being “different” and unsual.
As opposed to hating them for not looking or acting different?

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Originally Posted by Mutant
Harris and Klebold although the results of the act may be argurably unjustifyable were justified in having comited it if it were for the reasons they claim.
I find your ignorance irritating and opressive. I am therefore justified in wasting your sorry arse, then? Great!



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Originally Posted by Mutant
i dont look down on anyone for epriciation of Columbine however find that the vast majority, probably 278 out of 279 self proclaimed goths will say they are against columbine, ofcourse the majority of goths are as much shit as anyone else.
You did a fucking pole, did you?
Shut the fuck up before showing us just how superficially you've dwelved on these issues.





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Old 12-26-2005, 11:32 AM   #24
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Okay, so why the fuck is this idiot defending the Columbine Morons? According to almost anyone interviewed those two worthless slimeballs were bullies to begin with!

Retaliation? That would've been those snot-nosed punks getting their respective arses kicked by the rest of the kids that they bullied and later killed for fun.
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:37 AM   #25
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Mutant, people like you are the reason goths are still seen as a danger to society rather than as an interesting side-note. No one seeks to 'fit in' with the normals, we just want to co-exist without being banned from places or looked at as a threat. I don't see myself as on a war path with the rest of society, just on a different level.


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