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Old 06-16-2008, 11:09 AM   #26
KontanKarite
 
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OK, Blackwater, basically, you simply try not to make it an issue. I'm sure syle wise, we look nothing alike, but I SWEAR to you, dressing how you like at work, while cool, can actually be fairly non-utile. Vinyl pants and fishnet shirts for 16 hours a day... no thank you. Trust me.

Your best bet, honestly, is to find a job that doesn't have any hair rules. I know that's really hippy of me, but wearing your own simplified version of something you yourself made or done is cool, so long as it's comfortable.

Everyone on here is going to say "You look like a twat", "You work for a boss, so conform." I don't agree with those statements. Sure, it happens out there, but you have to consider location as well. Obviously if you live in a small town, you're basically enabling self expression suicide.

There are progressive or more liberal kinds of work out there, you just have to look.

If you want to talk about it more, just PM me. These guys here are obviously going to tell you that the company comes first and that you should deal with that, but the whole world isn't like that. So just PM me and we can talk about it.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:18 AM   #27
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Whoa, you have a record, Ducky? I would never have guessed. Anything you feel comfortable sharing? Pardon my morbid curiosity.

Would that this were a perfect world, things would be run meritocratically, and neither your past nor your position nor your appearance, chosen or unchosen, would have much to do with how you succeed in life; seems to me though that it has a lot more to do with who you know.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:21 AM   #28
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When you go in for an interview then I would nix the nail polish, I would also recommend not wearing it for the first week or two so that people get a chance to know you and see how competent you are at your job, before they judge you for being different, chances are by that point they really wont care, same goes for clothing but never go beyond the corpgoth look as you do still want to try looking professional. Also never go in with the death hawk up, even on casual Friday, it just tends not to go over well, try and make your hair look as classy as possible for the interview, and if it can hang in your face then try and style it so that it stays back (hair in face=unprofessional looking). As long as this seems to be something that you can do then you really shouldn't have any issues looking acceptable for most jobs. The job market does suck at the moment so best of luck.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:40 AM   #29
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Sorry for the double post; it went past editing time.

Kontan, I completely agree that wearing vinyl pants for 16 hours at work is a painfully horrible idea. I also agree with whoever said dressing to nines at work is pathetic. Mainly I'm talking about damage control here: not having to clean my nails off daily (this would be bloody expensive), and not having to shave my hawk. I have hair on the sides of my head and the whole mess is dyed solid black, so if I put it in a ponytail you can hardly tell the difference between it and a long-haired guy with a ponytail. I just also know, from experience, that there exist assholes even outside of the business culture who go oout of their way to fuck with anything that isn't cookie-cutter wholesome.

I had to get a summer job a couple of years ago at Blockbuster. I went in for the interview, they loved me, they asked if I could keep my hair under control (I had a thinner, traditional mohawk at the time), and I agreed to it. One of the guys there though told the manager off about it after I had been hired, and though I as willing to keep a low profile with it, I had to either shave it or lose the job. Since I was living under my mother's roof at the time and losing the job wasn't an option, I had to get rid of it. It sort of reminded me of the scene in The Last Samurai where they cut off the guy's hair because the law had changed to make wearing it that way illegal Actually, it was sort of a sad, but beautiful experience, since my then-girlfriend shaved it all off for me. Nevertheless I decided then that I wouldn't participate in a system in which one asshole gets to put down anyone else, even if it came at the expense of a terribly high salary. It's not even that I'm in love with my 'hawk; it's the principle of the thing. I hope that this more or less explains where I'm coming from, and why I'm looking for alternative sources of income.

PS Kontan--couldn't PM this, it appears I don't have sufficient street cred yet
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:52 AM   #30
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Unfortunately, you can't pay for stuff with principals.
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:11 PM   #31
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I believe Corporate Goth can give you a hand.

What's your degree in? I'm fortunate enough to be in I.T., where certificates and degrees account for a big part of it. In fact, I've seen some bosses who were thrilled that their "goth" employees would actually wear a suit, even though it may look a bit on the darker side.

Edit: Oh, and location, location, location. If you're in a small, rural, conservative town, then chances are you're not going to be able to get away with a lot. Usually if you move to a larger, more liberal city (Like San Fransisco) you'll be able to get away with a lot more.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:46 PM   #32
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I said that already as well, Splintered. It's all in location.

Also, yes, I understand the whole principle thing as well. A person's body is their property and they should have the right to do as they please with it, so long as it doesn't threaten public health or safety.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwater1110
I didn't realize that "growing up" meant submitting to a culturally-enforced set of norms prescribed to curtail one's individuality, consciously repressing self-expression and individual freedom in exchange for the privilege of survival. If that's what growing up means, call me Peter Pan. Do you enjoy being a round peg in a square hole, Ducky?

Does anyone have anything constructive to say?

I'm pretty sure "growing up" and "OH NO DREADED CONFORMITY!" are quite different.
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:44 PM   #34
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I've been having the same trouble as well, blackwater, so I quite understand you. Being a girl, shaving off my hawk would only make things worse, so I've just tried to dress nicely and keep my hair (and makeup) down at interviews. Anyway, I did compile a small list of jobs that might be more accepting towards alternative looks...

- Anything where you don't meet the public face to face
- Actor/ musician/ artist
- Salesperson in a record shop/ second hand shop/ alternative shop
- Waiter (at least in some cafés, if you're lucky)
- Bar tender
- Nightclub staff
- DJ
- Self- employed

Nothing too creative here, but it's the most obvious I could think of.
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:48 PM   #35
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Some types of journalism is good. And government jobs are so strict on their anti-discrimination codes that once you get hired, you're fine.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:11 PM   #36
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Will people STOP saying that just because you don't have to be face to face with a customer, that it's a job where you'll be allowed to wear what you want? You think telemarketers go to work in fucking short sorts? No, they wear shirts and ties like every other working dead.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:21 PM   #37
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Will you please stop being so fucking negative? Thank you.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:24 PM   #38
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Stop trying to change me! It didn't work for your Mother, it won't work for you!
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:26 PM   #39
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You can get a job places. Some places are Goth or sub-culturally friendly. They usually pay really badly though unless related to the entertainment industry.

Don't sweat your look. There are even a lot of jobs out there that are home based now. Having a computer and cell phone is probably the most important part of the job.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:52 PM   #40
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If you are very, very good at doing something that big money needs very, very badly, you can get away with not growing up. Like fixing bank and military databases and networks. The Customers won't care either, they kind of expect a "geek squad" appearance. But I must say I am not to the point of piercings or fishnets. But someone must push back the boundaries! Huzzah! Can't say any more.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minyaliel
Will you please stop being so fucking negative? Thank you.
It's not negative, it's realistic.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:03 PM   #42
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You are wrong. I am a person that graduated from college and gets jobs. Working at a management group that is outsourced for general tasks for other companie, like customer service, most of the VPs had long hair, wore black and other. While not over-whelmingly Goth, they were obviously a part of a sub-culture. A few people wore the basic khaki pants and golf shirt. There is room for everyone. However, the stronger divide is toward those who go to night clubs.

Every corporation has a different culture. This defined by the leaders and if you think all Goths are poor, you are sadly mistaken.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minyaliel
I
- Anything where you don't meet the public face to face
- Actor/ musician/ artist
- Nightclub staff
- DJ
- Self- employed

.
Be realistic, what are the chances really?
DJing isn't something you can just get into, it takes time and money...money you don't have because you're too busy caring about your "totally cool" look to get a real job.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:47 PM   #44
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Being a DJ these days isn't THAT hard. If you have a laptop and mixing software, you can totally be a DJ.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:26 PM   #45
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Yea, a shitty one.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #46
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You think DJing is easy? You ever tried?
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:47 PM   #47
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Dude, I'm sorry. Besides working at Hot Topic or some other store like that you probably won't get a job where you don't have to change your look. I have to suck it up every day when I go to work. I'm sorry to say, but that's the reality.
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:37 PM   #48
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God I hate you.
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:04 PM   #49
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umm, guys, it isn't that hard. here's a few ideas, some of which can make decent money, but none of them will allow you to use that degree.

I'm a taxi driver for my second job. Nobody gives a damn how I look, as long as I'm well groomed. Sometimes I think i get better tips if I'm dressed a little out of the norm. You don't need a special license (at least not here) , and people are usually just grateful if you speak decent english and are courteous. you can make kickass money on the right shifts in larger cities, more than what most people make in an entry level job that requires a degree.

Construction jobs don't usually care about hair and such, either. If you are a guy and wear nail polish, I wouldn't suggest it for the interview or the first few days, but if you bust ass and have common sense, they really don't give a shit. You will screw up your hands a bit though. With a job like this it actually helps a bit if you look more counter culture as opposed to a desk jockey. They don't usually care so much about a record, either. You just gotta bust ass and not be a dipshit.

bouncers for some clubs/bars can get away with wierd hair, as long as it is pulled back. One of the bouncers for the local biker bar has hair past his shoulders. (He's also about 6' 7", and 300 lbs of muscle, so I don't think anyone is going to try to pull his hair in a fight, lol)

bartenders can sometimes get away with crazy looks, especially the girls, as long as they make it look good.

I wore blue lipstick to work as an industrial lab tech. (graveyard shift) All my other stuff was under a lab coat, so nobody really gave a shit. crazy nail polish, too. Again, not suggested for the interview.

I got away with some stuff when I was working as a mechanic, too. I wore the uniform for the shop, but they didn't care about hair or nails. Both will get majorly screwed up in this though ( although carb cleaner makes EXCELLENT nail polish remover, although I wouldn't suggest it for regular use, probably causes some kind of freaky cancer or something). Keep the hair back, so it doesn't get caught in any moving parts, but they probably won't care if the sides are shaved or strange colors (maybe wear a baseball cap or dew rag)

Welders get away with alt. culture stuff too.

Pretty much anything where your hands-on performance is important, but there isn't a focus on customer service, you'll have a bit more leeway.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badteccy
DJing isn't something you can just get into, it takes time and money...money you don't have because you're too busy caring about your "totally cool" look to get a real job.
I'm a DJ. It really didn't take much effort at all, just a good music collection. Though it most certainly isn't something you quit your day job for - it's for fun and side-cash only, at least when you're a goth DJ in a small scene.

On a side note, the 'realistic' negativity in this thread is ridiculous. Maybe Australian employers are just a whole lot more reasonable, but getting a job while dressed as a goth isn't nearly as impossible as everyone seems to think, in fact around here it isn't even considered vaguely difficult.
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