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Old 11-24-2015, 12:30 AM   #1
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What is goth to you?

I have been wondering a lot, what it's goth to everyone here? Do you see goth as an appreciation for the darker side of things? A liking for the "goth" bands (Sisters Of Mercy, Bauhaus, ect.)? Is it the look? Our something else entirely? Tell me what "goth" is to you!
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:01 AM   #2
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I think the future changes the past.
"We are the thing that were and shall be again".
I think 'goth' is a subculture, a whole world unto itself.
It has something to do with the dark or darker aspects of life. We do not run from the dark, we as a subculture, embrace it.
Siouxsie Sioux, did not come out of a vacuum, she was influenced by the Velvet Underground, The Doors, Led Zepplin, David Bowie, Stooges etc. JG Ballard. And who influenced them?
My whole point being it has always been there, you just were not looking.
So get creative with it. Love some post-punk, get into some Chopin. Punk up that folk music. Make anit-music all day while chanting occult themes. Love Strawberry Switchblade. Hell dont listen to anything and study the dark arts.
It is gonna keep happening if your some kinda Dogma twat or not.

P.S. wear all white too. The only reason I wear so much black is to hide the coffee stains.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:56 AM   #3
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I adore the above response <3

Yessssssss tap into the creative .. your creativity is You!
I feel that 'Gothic' is and can be many attributes of an individual?
Society uses minimialism to define; a penchant for black and Poe o.O
But it's diverse and although some traits are shared it IS about self expression.
If pursued for a definitive answer, I'd offer intelligence ..
Goths are intelligent and empathetic I feel ...
Literature is appreciated, both historical and contemporary. Music too.
Whilst many have their favourite modern bands, I think many Goths can appreciate classical forms. The same is true of cinema. Wide appreciation.

I think others get too hung up on seeing us as 'death lovers' ...
They presume us to be morbid creatures, preoccupied with death and they love to mention Satan! The misinformed, how they enjoy labeling eh o.O

I think we are mindful of death and demise, but that enhances our lives.
We see and accept that death is a part of life; should that be ridiculed?
Death is the one thing we can be sure of in this life, I simply feel that we afford that more respect. We are NOT preoccupied, just mindful ...

I personally believe that those of a Gothic nature have experienced what it is to be an outsider .. many of us have been on the edges of society for years. Be that through our own choice of disassociating with the fickle dance of human social interactions, or indeed because we've constantly found ourselves to not be picked for the team
Fuck society, we all wear masks!

Ours are a damn sight prettier and certainly more truthful <3
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:40 PM   #4
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I had a different experience. The scene I was in was very fickle, very prone to excluding people or abusing certain targets, obeying rules, fitting images and denying unpleasant facts. There wasn't a lot of meaning beyond drinking, infighting and trying to fuck, and there were a lot of pressures pushing you to like certain things or behave certain ways.

I went in there because I wanted a place where I could be safe to express myself and wouldn't be ostacised for being 'weird'. But I soon left because I got treated like shit and preferred my own ways of engaging.

I used to be pretty talented in rediscovering obscure music, teaching myself to dance, making clothes and creating art from banal things. That would probably be my meaning of goth - being how you want, creating and constantly skilling up. You know, satisfy your soul.
But fucked if I do any of it anymore. You guys are almost the only goths I bother to speak to these days.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:27 PM   #5
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Ah I hasten to add ...
That the only Goths I converse with all live inside my computer!
In truth, the only people I speak to are on line - don't do peeps really tbh o.O
Once bitten ~ twice shy.

What you've described .. isn't that people in general Acharis?
Perhaps particularly true of fledgling adults to behave in those ways ..
Power trips, self-empowerment by belittling others aren't just traits of youth of course, just feel that those behaviours are more prevalent in youth ...
Sucks, it all sucks. I hated it. Per say in life you can find older adults are so very capable of the same nonsense! Which leads me to reaffirm that my darling dogs are my best and pretty much my only friends <3

Which is cool by me cos my doggos are Gothic as Fuck \m/
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:29 PM   #6
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Seriously .. type Kerry Blue Terrier into Googleboogle Image ..
Tell me they're not Goths of the dog world
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:16 PM   #7
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This is very true, I tend to keep to myself these days and get along much better with animals. Gorgeous doggos.

I think the problem is that goth can very easily become a clique. Well... it is one I guess. I've never done well with cliques, not even the first time around in school.

The culture can have a lot of meaning and richness, it was a inspiring sustaining force within me through some tough times - but with the wrong people it has the potential to be quite shallow and destructive. Just not willing to tolerate the senseless nastiness anymore (or the rigid dress code), and trying to rediscover the solitary contentment I previously had.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:12 AM   #8
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"shallow and destructive" .. that's perfect!
A perfect description of what I've experienced so many times.
In educational environment, in work place, even among my beloved hunt sabs.
The latter broke my heart. It was my most recent bite and it really hurt ..


Trust no fucker is currently my badge of honour.
Which I realize is unhealthy, but it's self protection.
If we don't afford ourselves that protection, no one else will.
Now I merely dance with others in real life, never getting too close.
Here on line I am fully open & honest .. there's a distance that permits that.
Hahaaa that's why I offer you all essays
It's so refreshing and alleviating to be real with some <3
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:17 AM   #9
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I am still trying to figure that out.

I would say It is a combination of things.
First off I think its how you think of your self. If you are drawn to goth things and you call or think of yourself as goth you probably are.
If I say lets go wander around the cemetery and you think that is a good Idea for a date,
If you like to sit around dressed in your (probably) black garb and read even if no one is going to see you.
If you think having a skull is cool ( real or not )
If you see some one dressed goth and think Oh that is probably a interesting person.
If you are a romantic
If you like to stand outside and watch the bats fly. ( There are bats were I live.)
If you sigh at the moon ( barking means you are probably more metal)
If you like the idea of planning your funeral
If you think that having a crow as a pet is a cool idea, snakes spiders and lizards also count.
You might be a Goth

You get extra credit if you can walk away from a bunch of people who have a fixed Idea of what you have to be and say Fine I'll just do it my way.
There is a good amount of overlap with other sub cultures though.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:48 AM   #10
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Sooooo much love for that post!
Made me laugh and smile, and every bit of it's true
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:23 PM   #11
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I know what you guys mean.
My father died when I was a young child. I only found solace in the woods.
I will not eat or consume any death. I do not worship death,
I am depressed because there is death, and entropy.
I never wore the right brands in school, as a child. I was 'troubled' for thinking for myself and creating and drawing.
...then later I was not punk enough, to be at the hardcore show, someone told me once, because I listened to skinny puppy. So I totally know what you mean there.

People seem to get really annoyed with integrity and I am still battling with that on a day to day basis.
(I know you guys aren't all in America) I sure the hell am not going to go to Old Navy and buy fucking khaki pants, can we compromise on olive drab? But that is just a metaphor.
Scenes come and go, come and go. Culture changes and finds new expressions. I always talked to who ever seemed interesting.
Skip it, You only have to answer to yourself., skip all the dogma, do not let any elitist twats tell you otherwise. We don't put on masks, this is who we are every day. Only real time will let you see who is who, entropy.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:15 AM   #12
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KeineModalen ..

Are you vegan?
Sorry if I've misinterpreted it's just that I am, and my heart skipped a beat then kinda soared excitedly at the prospect of knowing another Gothic Vegan
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:55 PM   #13
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um um ...

I know this exists
http://www.thespookyvegan.com/
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:56 PM   #14
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and this site

http://www.theppk.com/
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Old 11-26-2015, 09:03 PM   #15
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I'm really a south African driving instructor

https://youtu.be/fYJz-ElfwFI
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:19 AM   #16
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Oh yes the 'troubled' label because you did not like football, pep rallies or were not a cheerleader.
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Old 11-27-2015, 04:10 AM   #17
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Ah I've misconstrued, my apologies <3
I have a tendency to do so
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:46 PM   #18
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Being goth means many positive things to me but most of all it is the external expression of my true inner self.

Identifying myself as goth is for me an empowering, enriching act, it expresses my creativity and my love of beauty. Creativity has always been a fundamental part of who I am. I paint, draw, I write prose and poetry, I sculpt and I collect. I find great joy in experiencing the creative process in myself and in others so I am constantly looking at art, listening to music and reading.

I've spent years thinking about beauty and I've read a great deal from various traditions and cultures. One of the ideas that has influenced me and my art a great deal is the Japanese aesthetic concept of yugen.

As with many things Japanese, yugen is difficult to define. It can mean deep, sublime, mysterious, dark, subtle, profound.

To quote Zeami Motokiyo, “To watch the sun sink behind a flower clad hill. To wander in a huge forest without thought of return. To stand upon the shore and gaze after a boat that disappears behind distant islands. To contemplate the flight of wild geese seen and lost amongst clouds. And the subtle shadows of bamboo on bamboo.” This is what it is to experience profound beauty, this is what it is to experience yugen.

Zeami was the originator of the Japanese Noh theatre tradition. He constantly used images from nature to express beauty. Most importantly this beauty was no mere superficial prettiness, it was, “a profound, mysterious sense of the beauty of the universe...and the sad beauty of human suffering.”
Yugen may also be defined as refined elegance and thus it is evident in the Noh theatre, haiku and waka poetry, calligraphy, music, the Japanese sword, kendo and indeed all the arts.

Thus we can find beauty in joy, life and growth as well as in sadness, decay and death. All of life's experiences can be beautiful, moving or enriching.

As you can see it is an idea that strikes a cord with being goth. For me it defines what it means to me to be goth.
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Old 11-27-2015, 05:07 PM   #19
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@Anise ...you have not misconstrued, I am just being ambiguous as usual.

“I hardly ever talk- words seem such a waste, and they are none of them true. No one has yet invented a language from my point of view.” ― Aleister Crowley, Diary of a Drug Fiend

@Stormbringer Love your genius views man!
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Old 11-27-2015, 05:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeineModalen View Post
@Stormbringer Love your genius views man!
I concur! I too dig your grooves Stormbringer <3

In relation to the love of Gothic I find this quote relevant, at least ..
It is to me personally

"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it."
Confucius ~ that guy knew a thing or two!

Hey KeineModalen lol damn me and my presumptions of misconstruing
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:12 PM   #21
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Thank you my friends. This is a great thread. @ LaughingGoth, Anise and KeineModalen, Rats and Acharis, I think between us we could write a book about what it means to be goth.

My own experiences when I was younger were similar to some of yours but you get to the point where you triumph against all the small mindedness and the opposition from schools, peers, family and other idiotic busybodies. It's just a matter of hanging in there.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:13 PM   #22
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I hear you! When I turned 40 I really felt a lot more ..?
Mmm? Settled .. self assured?
My teens were iffy lol petulance and moodiness, but hey all teens are? o.O
My 20's went up in smoke; trying to escape issues of a rough childhood
30's were no better. Hard to be 'normal' and behave appropriately when you're traumatized and escapism via drugs only served to add to my dysfunction.
Sooo .. 40's good! Old habits have died and these days paranoia is under control. Don't know if it's my meds or maturing, both?

I think as you live and learn you realize and finally you become comfortable?
There are differing personality types outside your door. Exposure to them brings you learning; you begin to gauge who's who more readily; thus knowing who is kindred, who is a dickhead and when you meet with a psycho a bell rings

I've often found that those with bitter tongues are more in need of help than most .. they're like that for a reason. Of course, there's no excuse for being harsh, nasty .. lashing out at others or attempting to humiliate or degrade.
Just good to be mindful to the possibility that there might be a reason?
Then you say .. it's not me, it's them!
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:33 PM   #23
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Oh Anise, you weave an all too familiar tale. I feel that many of us here have had similar lives.

I had (and still have) good parents - I wouldn't call them 'great' but as far as bringing up their kids, they always clothed, fed and housed us and made sure we didn't swear and got to school on time. Where they were seriously lacking was in their empathy with their children. The, 'I'm an adult now so I have absolutely nothing in common with kids' mindset was typical of their generation. It's wrong. I believe in treating my five year old son as though he was a small adult - in so far as I never use sarcasm, I'm always polite to him and treat him with dignity and respect, I always (usually) tell him the truth, I always take him seriously but at the same time I try to discipline him in as fair a way as I can.

Most importantly, I never miss an opportunity to tell him that I love him or that he is precious to me. (Things that my own parents could never bring themselves to actually say.) Demonstrating affection to kids goes a long way to making them loving, gentle and caring adults. All this is in the hope that he won't suffer the various self esteem issues that I had to grow up with - anxhiety, social phobia and fear - things I still struggle with today. Not as bad as some people's lives I know but, well we all live in our own private Hells.

Now that I'm fifty I've never been happier - there are a few things lacking in my life but I'm content with who I am and I know that I make a positive difference in the lives of those close to me. I'm happy just being me.
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:17 PM   #24
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I so wish I'd discovered this contentment sooner, but try so hard not to regret.
For years of my life were wasted ..
On depression, anxiety, low sense of ME!
It's weird, all of the bitterness, all the anger is gone o.O
Now it's just me, being me and honestly really enjoying being me!

I wasted so many years analyzing, preoccupied with the past.
Picking away, dissecting and licking old wounds. I literally all but drove myself mad ...
If I could give the younger me some advice and some comfort it would be to let it go. Let it all go, let it drip through your fingers. The comfort that I would offer is the constant reassurance that it WILL change; no situation is permanent. It will diversify, mutate .. change. So stop beating yourself up

I hear others here relate hurts and my heart saddens. Youth is so very very precious. I don't want their beautiful youthful years darkened by self doubt. Whether self manifested or bestowed upon them by others. Self doubt cripples.
Take it from an old Vampyre who knows lol ..

Seriously tho, fuck self doubt and fuck self criticism! The world criticizes and doubts you enough, why persecute yourself on top of that? My beloved Gran used to say 'You can't put an old head on young shoulders'. In truth it's an impossible feat to attempt, but isn't it also true that some are 'born old'?
With the weight of the world upon their young shoulders.

Gah .. I'm essay writing yet again o.O
Really, who am I to impart wisdoms on anyone!?
Ahhh I just care for the young Darklings, and wish ease in life for them.

Private hells regardless of their making, they are very real and so painful.
No ones hell has hierarchy over another, for whatever ails, ails ..
The remedy is to reiterate that pain in life is inevitable; suffering is optional.
So break the chains that bind you, break them now rather than later!
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:07 AM   #25
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Goth , Gothic , Gothicism it is all beauty to me. Even now later in life i find i express this outward form of art without knowing. To me Goth is a outer expression of the darkness we see in the light around us. And of course that comes from deep inside other wise I wouldn't see those shadows and dark hints all the time. This is not a depressing dust laden vision of the world but contrasts of a sunny day with the rich screeching trunk of a bare old tree reaching to the sky. Or scraped charcoal portraits of friends on walls with bright yellow kitchen. There is grey unfortunatley, probably a comfort zone or road between dark and light, metaphor used in many Gothic films. I've seen things this way all my life. Startling though is that others recognize this dark side to me, even when im not aware. Definitley has been within and heightened all my life. But i enjoy the beauty, the intensity , the stillness i can find or the madness i can let loose if i need to. Now if I could be this self - aware when I take out the garbage, or the dentist drills my teeth I'd really impress you all
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