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Old 05-22-2008, 02:58 PM   #1
Megansmom
 
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Help Me My youngest has Discovered Lol ita

My 12 year old daughter has discovered the sweet lol lita styles and my 15 year old has fallen for the gothic / elegant lol lita styles, where can I find some clothing or patterns? I have both of the Gothic Lollita Bibles and the clothignis cool but man finding these clothes are going to be hard.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:53 PM   #2
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Um... is it really the "lo lita" fashion trend whenit's actually 12 and 15 year old girls wearing it? No, serious question. I get it when it's a 20-something dressing up in the costume-y dresses and whatnot, but when it's a 12-15 year old girl it's just kinda wrong to me.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:26 PM   #3
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Japenese Lol ita styles are not the same as the Alice in wonderland type stuff that's found here in the states. Some of it is but not all of it. Look up Japense Lol ita online and you'll see there is a difference. Especially the kei rock styles.
It's kind of a cross between pirate and Edwardian and Victorian aristocracy. You know like pantaloons and ruffley white shirts and brocade jackets. Lots of jewelry capes and such.
I do draw the line at Alice in Wonderland .
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:31 PM   #4
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Yea um, the lo lita style is a fetish.
Don't even try to argue that it's not. Not to say I don't mind it, but sheesh, it so obviously is.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megansmom
My 12 year old daughter has discovered the sweet lol lita styles and my 15 year old has fallen for the gothic / elegant lol lita styles, where can I find some clothing or patterns? I have both of the Gothic Lollita Bibles and the clothignis cool but man finding these clothes are going to be hard.
Ok, seriously, this is ridiculous. Sign off this account, get your daughter to sign up, and cut out this relaying questions bullshit. We aren't a parental advice forum. You come and ask a plethora of questions about your daughter here, just give her a fucking account, they're free!
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:56 PM   #6
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No, a mix of Edwardian and Victorian styles is a mix of Edwardian and Victorian styles. "Lo lita" is named that way because it is clothing often of an over-stylized, "costume ish" and definatively "young girl" style that is used in a way to present a sexually attractive image. In short, it's fancy young-girl's clothing that is designed to be very sexy. This is all fine and good (arguably, at at least in certain cases) when it is a adult female wearing it, but certainly not so when it is a child.

To be frank, thinking otherwise you might as well say "hey, why don't you put on your IoIita clothing and go help out the ice-cream man in the back of his truck."

Have you ever read "******"?
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:26 PM   #7
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Yeah...don't let your 12 year old were those kind of clothes, unless you really want two pedos fighting over her. Seriously lol*ta is so obviously sexual that you can't really be considering allowing your young ones to wear it. I hate to seem like I'm calling you out but you did mention that your daughter (I believe the 15 year old) is attracting quite a bit of unwanted attention, maybe you should think of the image that her clothing portrays (yeah just because you look like a tart doesn't mean that you are one, but it does put the idea in people's head).
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormboy
Ok, seriously, this is ridiculous. Sign off this account, get your daughter to sign up, and cut out this relaying questions bullshit. We aren't a parental advice forum. You come and ask a plethora of questions about your daughter here, just give her a fucking account, they're free!
Or she could just actually bother parenting without the help of the interbutt? And I think her daughter is GothicChristian.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:41 AM   #9
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Geez ask an opinion about a style and everyone gets a hard on. Neither of them dress this style but they think it's cute.
They are into anime heavy and when asked about this style at the conventions and anime rooms it's not seen as sexual like you guys see it. They see it as cute, artsy and representative of the Japan 's rock culture and based on the research we did that's what it is suppose to be.
I just wanted to see how clothing like this seen in the rest of America. I guess it's just not ready for Japanese fashion . At one time gothic styles were considered a fettish , I remember those times well.
By the way asking for advide in a forum where your teenager can get see it from other people is never wrong. Have you ever met a teenager that believes every thing thier parents have to say? Sometimes they have to hear and see it from other people, So when you guys have teenagers of your own remember sometimes they have to see and hear things from other people even when they are saying the same thing.
With some of the language and stuff on here NO WAY do my kids need an account but since one of there friends has an account here and swears by it I decided to check it out and ask the questions they think you guys know more about than I do because your supposedly more worldly and open minded. Yes, I do let them read the answers. Sometimes there is more to parenting than you think, One of them is getting opinions from people you know nothing about because they should be nuetral,
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megansmom
Geez ask an opinion about a style and everyone gets a hard on. Neither of them dress this style but they think it's cute.
They are into anime heavy and when asked about this style at the conventions and anime rooms it's not seen as sexual like you guys see it. They see it as cute, artsy and representative of the Japan 's rock culture and based on the research we did that's what it is suppose to be.
Um, yeah, 'kay. I know this guy who goes to sci-fi cons just to drool all over the teens in anime. I guess he's not a sleaze then. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by badteccy
Yea um, the lo lita style is a fetish.
Don't even try to argue that it's not. Not to say I don't mind it, but sheesh, it so obviously is.
Then again, plenty of "gothy" dress items are based off of fetishes. Net shirts (and stockings), spike collars, leather pants, and tall boots can be found at sex shops (or at least, that's what I saw last time I went to one).
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:30 AM   #12
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Yes, Mr. Ed, but those clothing styles are not named "I'm an underage girl tailored to be a sexual object". I can walk around in a pirate hat without being a looter of maritime trade, but at the point where I'm dressed in a rubber ball-gag and assless chaps it's no longer a fashion trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megansmom
Geez ask an opinion about a style and everyone gets a hard on. Neither of them dress this style but they think it's cute.
Noone, to my knowledge, is "getting a hard on". The point of my and some other answers, however, is that the entire point of the IoIita style is to give people hard ons. Whether or not it can be worn or percieved innocently is entirely irrelevant to the fact that it is not innocent.

Quote:
They are into anime heavy and when asked about this style at the conventions and anime rooms it's not seen as sexual like you guys see it. They see it as cute, artsy and representative of the Japan 's rock culture and based on the research we did that's what it is suppose to be.
This clothing style is intended to be about as innocent as panty vending machines, also a staple of Japan. Just because Japan has different cultural views on sex and sexuality than the US (which is a whole different can of worms) doesn't mean that this is any less innocent there, and certainly not considered appropriate for little girls.

When your girlfriend dresses up in her old cheerleader uniform it's sexy. When it actually is a highschool cheerleader it's more than a little creepy and borderline illiegal.

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I just wanted to see how clothing like this seen in the rest of America. I guess it's just not ready for Japanese fashion . At one time gothic styles were considered a fettish , I remember those times well.
And many of it still is fetish. Again, one does not walk around in a ball-gag and assless chaps and legitimately expect to call it a "fashion trend". There's a time and a place for the stuff, much like the cosplay fashions at these conventions. Go up to your average girl dressed as Rei Ayanami in a plug-suit and you're not going to get the response that this is daily-wear clothing.

Quote:
By the way asking for advide in a forum where your teenager can get see it from other people is never wrong. Have you ever met a teenager that believes every thing thier parents have to say? Sometimes they have to hear and see it from other people, So when you guys have teenagers of your own remember sometimes they have to see and hear things from other people even when they are saying the same thing.
But see, you're not saying the same thing. You seem genuinely convinced that IoIita clothing can be ok for a 12-year-old girl. It's not. There is a large distinction between Edwardian clothing and a pedo-bait costume.

Quote:
With some of the language and stuff on here NO WAY do my kids need an account but since one of there friends has an account here and swears by it I decided to check it out and ask the questions they think you guys know more about than I do because your supposedly more worldly and open minded. Yes, I do let them read the answers. Sometimes there is more to parenting than you think, One of them is getting opinions from people you know nothing about because they should be nuetral,
And with this you leave me speechless. Dressing up in clothing designed to be oogled is ok, but as soon as someone says "fuck" the deal is off. That's nonsensical. If you cannot trust your child around a moderate amount of harsh language without being emotionally damaged, then you're really going to love the effects of being a "IoIita" will be.

And you never answered the very specific, and very relevant question: Have you ever actually read "LoIita"?
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badteccy
Yea um, the lo lita style is a fetish.
Don't even try to argue that it's not. Not to say I don't mind it, but sheesh, it so obviously is.
It's not. Stop being a retard and stop reading too far into things. Just because a lot of people have a fetish FOR it doesn't mean it's a fetish thing. That's like red hair being "fetish".

Gothic lolita is just an exaggeration of the frilly Victorian things a lot of western goth girls wear(though the "scene" doesn't have a lot to do with the western goth scene). It's a fashion, not some weird pedo fetish. You're probably thinking of Lolicon or something.

Also what shithead decided it'd be great to filter the word lolita on a goth board? Some snobbery against the style I suppose?
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:01 AM   #14
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Okay, I was going to link to the Wiki article on Goth Loli, but even that was filtered. How incredibly immature.

So instead, this links to it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...i&redirect=yes

Where does it mention it being a fetish here? It's NOT. There are kids cartoons with Goth Loli characters in it, for crap's sake. Where are you getting your information from? I don't think I've ever heard this rubbish anywhere outside of this forum. It's just a twisted, arrogant misinformed view of japanese culture from watching too many documentaries about vending machines that give out panties.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeEyesOni
No, a mix of Edwardian and Victorian styles is a mix of Edwardian and Victorian styles. "Lo lita" is named that way because it is clothing often of an over-stylized, "costume ish" and definatively "young girl" style that is used in a way to present a sexually attractive image. In short, it's fancy young-girl's clothing that is designed to be very sexy. This is all fine and good (arguably, at at least in certain cases) when it is a adult female wearing it, but certainly not so when it is a child.

To be frank, thinking otherwise you might as well say "hey, why don't you put on your IoIita clothing and go help out the ice-cream man in the back of his truck."

Have you ever read "******"?
It has nothing to do with that book. Why on earth would it? It is derived from the original meaning of ******, "attractive young girl", but in the context of the japanese fashion, it is not intended to be fetish. The japanese often use terms out of context like that. Just look up some japanese stores for their English translations some time.

Quote:
This clothing style is intended to be about as innocent as panty vending machines, also a staple of Japan.
Hah, I hadn't even read that far when I wrote the earlier piece. Called it. You have no clue what you're talking about, please back your shit up in future.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:17 AM   #16
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Panty Vending Machines. Read.

That's on the ussumption that you were calling shenanigans on that part of my comment.

Again, "IoIita" clothing is meant to be "sexy little girl" clothing. By "sexy", the phrase "someone I would really like to bone" could be substituted. It's something that's fine and dandy for adults, but with a kid wearing it you then literally have a child wearing sexualized child clothing.

The fashion is OK. It can be hot. It is most definately intertwined with a sexual mindset, and to think otherwise is terribly naive.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:32 AM   #17
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Again, "IoIita" clothing is meant to be "sexy little girl" clothing.
No, it's not. That's a common misunderstanding. Please back this up instead of commenting on things you don't understand. ****** is not a fetish fashion, it is not stated as so on any notable resources you can find out there. "It so obviously is" is not an acceptable argument.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Rosie
It's not.
It's fun being delusional, isn't it?
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by badteccy
It's fun being delusional, isn't it?
Given there's absolutely nothing to back up your point of view, I think you'd be a better person to ask.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:39 AM   #20
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Since apparently I didn't use enough references in my original post or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir Nabokov, "LoIita"
Now I wish to introduce the following idea. Between the age limits of nine and fourteen there occur maidens who, to certain travelers, twice or many times older than they, reveal their true nature which is not human, but nymphic (that is, demoniac); and these chosen creatures I propose to designate as "nymphets."
It will be marked that I substitute time terms for spatial ones. In fact, I would have the reader see "nine" and "fourteen" as the boundaries - the mirrory beaches and rosy rocks - of an enchanted island haunted by those nymphets of mine and surrounded by a vast, misty sea.
The term "LoIita" is a term for a seductive, sexually attractive, or sexually precocious young girl. Specifically those just at or under the age of consent. In the specific use of fashion it can refer to anything from simply and literally being "dolled up", dressed in a childlike fashion but also in an "idealized" sence. While it is true that a good many of the wearers of some forms of LoIita fashion consider it not as sexual as originally presented ("cute" rather than "sexy", and the like), it also depends on style to style.

The term was indeed used by Nabokov first, in the 50s as opposed to the clothing trend of the 70s. Regardless, the cultural views from country to country have to be taken into account, and in the US there is a definate existing view to both the term and much of the style.

Especially with the original mention of unwanted romantic/sexual attention, I don't see why this is such a hard pill to swallow.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:47 AM   #21
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The term "LoIita" is a term for a seductive, sexually attractive,
Yes, it is. In western culture. And apparently you're not reading my posts. Come back when you do.

Quote:
It has nothing to do with that book. Why on earth would it? It is derived from the original meaning of ******, "attractive young girl", but in the context of the japanese fashion, it is not intended to be fetish. The japanese often use terms out of context like that. Just look up some japanese stores for their English translations some time.
Gothic ****** has little to do with the concept of western "******", it's not even like the "gothic" part which at least has a lot of notable influence from western goth culture even if it's different and sets itself apart.

Since you're mostly likely only aware of mainstream anime, do the Evangelion Units go around literally Evangelising? No, they don't. It just sounds kind of cool and creepy. ****** sounds cute and has some vague significance to "attractive young girl" but means it in a different way.

****** is all about looking pretty, not sexually attractive. It is nothing more than a more elaborate and colorful form of western gothic fashion, with a subculture attached to it that has little to do with the original gothic subculture(but more so than Mansonites, of course). This is something which IS immediately obvious - they over dress and wear pretty, frilly things. If it was meant to be arousing they'd probably mix this with sudden exposed areas; there would be more open back dresses, more belly showing, and less tights/long socks.

If you're relying on "You're very naive", then you're making presumptions you need to back up.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:59 AM   #22
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Wait wait wait. I reference one anime, based on it being the first character that came to mind, and you make a point to make some kind of "otaku cred" comment? And for that matter, since you're apparently having to bring it up, considering the big god-awful monstrosities are angels then I'd say that they used the phrase in a pretty literal sense. It's also "Evangelion" not "Evangelist"; it's "Evangelist" that "go around literally Evangelising", to turn a phrase.

And considering that uses and variations on the phrase lo lita go back to the time freaking Lord Byron, all referencing sexuality of pre-sexual or slighty later ages (and often also in reference to a "siren" effect of the on some older guy) then I think there's more than enough precedent as to what the meaning is. It's not exactly a phrase that's going to be used out of context in the same generation as the book which re-afirmed it's meaning worldwide.

Also, what part of the "unwanted sexual advances" part of this whole situation are you missing? But no, there's nothing at all sexual about the clothing style (especialy as how it's worn in the US, let alone referred to as "lo lita") so that couldn't at all be linked.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:01 PM   #23
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Also, if you want to refer to the wording as being a mistaken japanese word usage, then you need some reason other than the fact that it's convenient to your point of view.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
And considering that uses and variations on the phrase lo lita go back to the time freaking Lord Byron, all referencing sexuality of pre-sexual or slighty later ages (and often also in reference to a "siren" effect of the on some older guy) then I think there's more than enough precedent as to what the meaning is. It's not exactly a phrase that's going to be used out of context in the same generation as the book which re-afirmed it's meaning worldwide.

Also, what part of the "unwanted sexual advances" part of this whole situation are you missing? But no, there's nothing at all sexual about the clothing style (especialy as how it's worn in the US, let alone referred to as "lo lita") so that couldn't at all be linked.
None of this matters. It's not what Gothic Lolita is.

Not completely different from how modern "Goths" have nothing to do with visigoths.

Quote:
Also, if you want to refer to the wording as being a mistaken japanese word usage, then you need some reason other than the fact that it's convenient to your point of view.
You cheeky bitch, you haven't backed up a single one of your points and neither the wiki article no other major articles on Gothic ****** mentions it being sexual. The burden of proof is on YOU.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=...e+Search&meta=

And you're going to have a tough time proving it (substitute for ******).
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:32 PM   #25
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Riiight. Well, so far all of the relevant information is irrelevant for... well, apaprently just because you say it is. I say this because apparently the obvious (and well know at the time it was originaly chose) usage of the word "lo lita" is completely irrelevant.

Nope, nothing sexual here. Totally innocent. Completely appropriate attire for an underage girl.

Nope, you've convinced me. Megansmom, you go right ahead. I wish your daughter the best of luck, as she obviously will need it.
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