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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 02-21-2006, 11:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by WolfMoon
Can I be the first Lady?


Wolfie, you can be anything you wanna be
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Binkie
You're being contradictory? Oh contrare.

But yeah, let's observe America's stance on these issues that won him the presidency by... what's that, Cheney? A mandate? Wanna go dig up the statistics on how many Americans in each state disapprove of gay marriage? Go ahead and google that, Sternn. I know you won't, cause you know I'm right. The Democratic candidate, o'l John Kerry, wouldn't run on a pro-gay marriage platform either. Why is that?

How about looking up how important most voters view the President's religious affiliation and conviction in relation to his candidacy? How about how many voters support the ambitions to spread freedoms and democracy?
Hey, we agree on something completely. He did run a majority of his campaign on the gay marriage issue. And your also right about most voters not caring about the religious affiliation and the fact they care less about spreading democracy.

Of course what your saying is that gw used the idea of gays being normalised in society as a tool to win. He didn't support someone as much as he once again demonised a group (this time the gays) and told the people who he made afraid of them that he would protect them from this percieved 'threat'. Portraying gays in a negative light, rising to power by not only making them out to be monsters, but also vowing to fight against their right to be happy, well, is that something to be proud of?

Whats even worse, people ate it up, and people were willing to once again trample the rights of a group of people, in the name of america.
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by CptSternn
My post of the most recent polling stastistics were in response to the notion that somehow 49 states were carried by gw in the last election, and that those states still somehow support him.

Plus I've been wanting to post that link since I got it a few days ago.
No. You read me wrong. Most voters support those platforms. As in, most voters are against gay marriage, support a presidential candidate that's Christian, and advocates democracy. That's just a common platform. Both candidates campaigned on it, not just Bush. However, Bush was just alot more flamboyant about the some of the issues though. But no, I'm not saying Bush carried all other 49 states (in which case a red vs. blue state diagram would have sufficed and been more relavant than recent opinion polls).
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CptSternn
Hey, we agree on something completely. He did run a majority of his campaign on the gay marriage issue. And your also right about most voters not caring about the religious affiliation and the fact they care less about spreading democracy.

Of course what your saying is that gw used the idea of gays being normalised in society as a tool to win. He didn't support someone as much as he once again demonised a group (this time the gays) and told the people who he made afraid of them that he would protect them from this percieved 'threat'. Portraying gays in a negative light, rising to power by not only making them out to be monsters, but also vowing to fight against their right to be happy, well, is that something to be proud of?

Whats even worse, people ate it up, and people were willing to once again trample the rights of a group of people, in the name of america.
Mmmm... I beg to differ. Religion is a big issue, as it reflects on all others. Evangelicals and devout Christians tend to run the usual far right Republican platform, which is to say, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, anti-stem cell research, yadda,yadda,yadda. Most people who are against gay marriage, which was an overwhelming amount of voters this past election, could give a shit less about the political reasons for opposing it. It's 95% a religious issue.

And no, that's not what I'm saying. That's apparently what you're saying, which neglects the fact that Bush has defiantly resisted pressure to critcize homosexuals, most notably when James Robison, a prominent Evangelical minister, tried to get him to. Bush's response? ""I think he wants me to attack homosexuals... Look, James, I got to tell you two things right off the bat. One, I'm not going to kick gays, because I'm a sinner. How can I differentiate sin?"

Further Bush comments: "This is an issue I have been trying to downplay... I think it is bad for Republicans to be kicking gays."
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:55 PM   #30
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Oh damn. No one got my joke about George Bush.
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Old 02-21-2006, 01:00 PM   #31
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Yay! Haha, I tend to pull George's Bush all the time. I'm so immature...I'll be laughing at my own joke for hours.
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Old 02-21-2006, 02:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Binkie
And no, that's not what I'm saying. That's apparently what you're saying, which neglects the fact that Bush has defiantly resisted pressure to critcize homosexuals
Oh, ok. So what your saying is seperate, but equal - thats ok for gays. Don't put them down, but don't give them the same rights as everyone else either? I mean, at the end of the day, thats exactly what he is saying.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:10 PM   #33
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Okay, so I ignored it a few times thinking it just a typo, but Sternn...

Your = possessive

You're = to be

I KNOW IT'S COMPLICATED. I KNOW. JUST TRY.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:38 PM   #34
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I found this in my pictures and thought it proved quite a point.
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:19 PM   #35
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Actually I think this article lays it uot pretty well...

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006.../iran12535.htm

'(Washington, D.C., January 25, 2006) - In a reversal of policy, the United States on Monday backed an Iranian initiative to deny United Nations consultative status to organizations working to protect the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people. In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, a coalition of 40 organizations, led by the Human Rights Campaign, Human Rights Watch, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, called for an explanation of the vote which aligned the United States with governments that have long repressed the rights of sexual minorities.'


Thats right, Iran wants to keep gay friendly groups out of the UN, and put forth an inititive to do so. Who helped back it? The United States, Zimbabwe (Mugabe), and Sudan.

Still think that the current administration is gay friendly?

I think it's funny gw is all out trying to start war with Iran, but hey, takes time to back their initative to stamp out gays in the UN, because thats a worthwhile cause they can both get behind.
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