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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 09-24-2005, 09:19 PM   #1
Asurai
 
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Hamas vs Israel

Hamas has been shelling a few Israeli towns out of Gaza. Israel responded a few hours ago with airstrikes, and the IDF is massing troops on the border for a ground incursion. The Israeli Defence Minister said that they're going to "make the ground in Gaza shake."

Put yourself into the mind of a Hamas terrorist at this moment. You've succeeded in pissing off the most powerful nation without five thousand miles of your little shithole corner of the world. You have a very, very long history of getting your ass kicked, repeatedly, by the IDF -- every time that you or your ancestors have ever fought them, actually, you've had your ass handed to you. Your leaders have been being assassinated pretty much non-stop for the last few years, and your two chief field commanders went to meet Allah a few hours ago, leaving you mostly without any guidance. You're currently in the Gaza Strip, where there were Jewish settlements a few weeks ago -- but no more. Nearly all of the buildings have been demolished or moved, leaving you, in effect, in the middle of nowhere, with the ocean on one side and a wall on the other, as the Jews descend from the North with the intention of beating the living shit out of you and flaying the flesh from your bones to make their matzah. Every time that your people have EVER stood against the Israelis, you've been ***** with a spiked dildo; and it's about to happen again, and there's nothing that you can do about it.

You have one, and exactly ONE, option: go beg before your fellow Jew-haters at the EU, which tonight released statements urging Israel to use "restraint" as its civilians are murdered.

The IDF is going to fuck you up, but no worries: the EU and UN are on your side.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:32 PM   #2
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I am still as yet, undecided about how I feel about the above conflict..

My knowledge base on the subject, simply is not sufficient..

I do know that many innocent children have been gunned down by the Israeli Army, without retribution, because these kids were simply too close to a check point..

I think I even wrote about one girl in particular in one of these threads last year.

I did a presentation on her murder for my Sociology class at Uni.

Ahh here it is, I found it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
I wanted to give a face and a name to the 13 year old Palestinian girl shot by the Israeli Commander on 10/12.

Her name is Iyman al Hams.

Wearing her school uniform and carrying her book bag, Iyman and her two classmates took a route past the Zionist command post, the route they have taken many times before. Only about 400 meters from the school and relative safety, Israel Defense Forces, fearing that the 13-year old was carrying explosives in her book bag, fired warning shots in the air.


"When the soldiers fired in the air, the girl threw her bag and tried to flee," said H., a mechanic of Tel Sultan who witnessed the shooting. "The bullets hit the bag and then the girl." He said the child was about 50 meters from the Zionist military posts when the soldiers started shooting in the air. "She started running and the soldiers started firing hails of bullets at her. She was hit in the arm and fell on the ground, but they went on shooting," he said.

An Israeli commander shot her twice more as his subordinates yelled at him " No don't, it's a little girl! " The Israeli commander then walked up to her broken and dying body and emptied his clip into her. She was shot a total of FIFTEEN TIMES by this sorry souless piece of shit.

Two of the men under his command came forward and spoke out against his act:

“We saw her from a distance of 70 metres. She was fired at… from the outpost. She fled and was wounded. I understood that she was dead. The platoon commander neared her, shot two bullets at her, returned toward the force, turned back to her, put the weapon on automatic—and emptied his entire clip. He sprayed her. We were in shock. We held our heads. We couldn’t believe what he had done. Our hearts ached for her. Just a 13-year-old girl. How do you spray a girl from close range? He was hot for a long time to take out terrorists and shot the girl to relieve pressure.”

It took guts for these soldiers to come forward, although it appears the Israeli government is not going to punish the Commander for his actions. No big shock there.

One of the saddest things was how fucking hard I had to dig to get the FULL STORY on this.

I have to give a presentation for my Social Problems class tommorrow, and I thought Iymam deserved to be remembered. Another interesting fact was that NONE of the American newpapers, or on-line news media reported her name. She was just an anonymous little dead Palestinian girl in every article I read. It was only on Jewish news webpages that she finally had a name, and a face.

I give you, Iymam al Hams..

May she know peace and safety for time everlasting..









Her face, and her pointless murder will stay with me for the rest of my life...

So feel free to increase my sparse knowledge of the conflict..

It's good to see you As.

Hook me up with your email address, because I couldn't find it anywhere..

There are those of us who miss your boundless chasms of intellect around here..

Plus NO ONE looks better in PINK than you do!!

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Old 10-08-2005, 11:31 PM   #3
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Asurai-Here's my problem with your attitudes in regards to this situation (and a number of others)-you have this tendancy to bring up the horrors/faults/etc of one side (the one you oppose), and whitewash all said discretions of the other. Oh well, after years of the Coulter/Limbaugh types, I guess I should be used to it by now.

And just to quell any "Palestine supporter/jew-hater" comments....sorry insinuations. You were never very good with direct comments......you might have flying my way soon, let me just say this in as clear language as possible. Nether the Isralis nor the Palestinians can claim any kind of moral superiority. Both sides have fucked up too much over the years for that.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:50 AM   #4
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Christians and jews have through the ages been able to seek shelter in muslim-countries. Not anymore.
In the beginning of last century Israel did not exist. Zionists were looking for a place to create the new Israel, Argentina was a place they considered, along with Palestina and I think Bulgaria. In WWII jews were haunted all over europe and a lot of them fled to Palestina where they were left in peace, the Zionists then decided it should be Palestina. Palestina then belonged to the UK, who said "no, you Zionists can not own Palestina". After the war the UK left and USA took over. USA said "sure Zionists can have at least half the country". Israel was then founded in I think 1945. Thousands of both jews and muslims who happened to live on the wrong side of the new border lost their home and belongings and the wars between Israel and Palestina began.
Of course there have been wars and battles in those areas for thousands of years and Israel and Palestina are just new sides to an old proplem. The horrors that have happened over there, as disgusting as they are, can not be blamed entirely on one side since the people there are falling to pieces from despair caused by a lifetime of terror. Can you imagine that? Growing up with guns and bombs and your loved ones exploding in front of, nothing is safe, not even your home whitch might not exist tomorrow? How sane would you be?
It's even my fault that it's still going on, my apathy and yours.

This is missing a lot of details, I know
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:37 PM   #5
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I must correct myself (since nobody else has).

The new Israel was founded in 1948, not 1945.
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:43 AM   #6
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Regarding EPS's 1st post on this thread, the IDF (that Asurai so unfortunately admires) just acquitted today the OFFICER who after gunning down the girl emptied his clip (15 fucking bullets) into her body "to make sure she was dead".

Said officer (read again: officer) reportedly said at the time that anyone coming within no-man's land (which is subject to everyday change) must die, even if they are a 3 year-old girl.

Israel has a lot to be proud of today, and so does the Israel Defence Forces (defence? I sthat some kind of sick joke, when coming from an occupying nation?).




As for historical arse-kickings, Asurai should reflect that the Arabian empire completely wipped their arse and rid the whole of north Africa of jews (why do you think they came to Europe in the 1st place?)

And how come eveyone remembers the holocaust, but on one wonders about the effects of the dogmas of hebrew faith on jewish people?
Here's one: the hebrews are God's ONLY chosen people.

What do you think that kind of mindset does to someone who truely believes it?

No different than christian or muslim faith, you might wonder. correction, no different from muslim faith, seen as we all know that most christian fundamentalists usually stick to abortion clinic bombings (are they not terrorists?).

Hate flows on both sides. Neither side is absolutely right or wrong in this affair, but one of the sides totally has the upper hand and suffocates the other in terms of economy, drinking water and military capacity. Guess which one?


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Old 11-21-2005, 11:08 AM   #7
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I am still amazed by the fact that though israely soldiers die every day, and i do mean EVERY DAY, protecting my country, and though kids exploude in our buses on their ways to school, though we live in constant fear of what may happen to our families the next time they'll go outside THE HOUE, we are still the bad guys!
Innocent israely people die every day, yet no one seems to notice that, but if a palestinian kid dies in a crossfire it hits the news, doesn't it?
Poor palestinian people, terrorised by the israely goverment! What the fuck was that kid doing there in the first place? Why did his mother let him go outside n through rocks on our soldiers? What the fuck was she thinking?
And do they show how that same kid throws a bottle of cerousine on our soldiers while his father stands a few meters away and guides him through it?
No, the same mother will walk proudly through the streets of Gaza telling everyone who wants to hear, and especialy the foreign press, how her little boy and husband were killed by the big bad israely army!
Do they show you our little children, our little boys and girls with no heads, no arms, their brains all over the half burnt buses?
Do they show their mother crying? Can you even imagine the smell of burnt flesh and the sight of little bodies with no life in them?
Just a while ago a young woman died in her house after a Kassam was lunched on her house! They wont stop!
We have to do something to protect ourselfs, and yet we get blaimed when we respond to this! what would you suggest? just ignore them shooting at us?
I have friends who's family died in bombings, there was a bombing in my own town, 15 min from my house!
Why dont they ever show our little kids, empty purple star?
Im trying so hard to feel sympathy for them but than i get reminded of the thousands that were killed with no reason, and i just can't.
That girl- we didn't shoot at her because we were bored, ok?
And no one has the right to judge us untill he actualy sees with his own eyes what's going on!
Im so upset that im not sure how much sense im makin plus my english is horrible, but i hope u'll get my point
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:15 AM   #8
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now look at our side:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/mfaarchive...ovember%202000

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/mfaarchive...2001-%20photos

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/terrorism-...rrorism%20sinc
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:51 AM   #9
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It's very likely that you might have not noticed, seen as you probably just got here, but, in the time that I've been at G.net, most of the general opinion here supports Israel and the aid/help/backing that the US administration gives to Israel.

Points have been argued and made here concerning the ongoing conflict for both sides, but I still believe that the general opinion here is still one that supports both Israel and the US administrations positions regarding it.

That being said, seen as I, for one, do not agree with Israeli policies nor do I agree with the US administrations' stance, I take my time to expose another side of the conflict not usually seen by people discussing politics in the US (where most of the members are from).

In case you also didn't notice, I did not defend or support palestinian attacks on women, children and the elderly. How kind of me, huh? I didn't go as far as to say "civilian" population, seen as the only civilian population in Israel are the people who are too young or too old to be part of an army, seen as service in the Israeli Armed forces is compulsory for both men and women.

I also said (and will repeat it as often as I feel like it) that I support the palestinian side because they are the ones being OCCUPIED: does the term "occupied territories" ring a bell?

No? Then it's probably because they call it something else in Israel.

Israel has control of the water palestinians drink. It still keeps cutting it back and removing palestinians from their farms.

Are palestinians generally intolerant and extreme in their religious views, especially when concerning the hebrew people? Yes, they are.

As far back as I can remember, neither side gave the other a chance. Palestinians didn't want Israel, and Israelis didn't want palestinians either. Result: war, occupation and repression (resulting in the furthering of positions already extreme to start with by the palestinian side).


You came here accusing me of being one-sided when mentioning massacres.
Like I said, maybe I didn't do it because there's always someone here to show the other side (you are perfect proof of what I'm saying).

How about you give an opinion on the political side? What do you think about it?

Because all we've done is show how barbaric both sides can be.
And by the way, the girl was coming home from school in the middle of dirt and rocks because urban development like paved streets and roads is still a million miles from the palestinians.
And also because Israeli Army doesn't usually announce to the palestinians where they are going to be (sounds logical, no?).

Palestinians are brought up to hate Israel, israelis and anything hebrew. It's a sad state of affairs.

But I guess that the good folks in Israel don't teach their children to fear and hate muslims.... Especially the ones voting for the Likud party.

And I seem to remember that it's about 10 years since Isaac Rabin (Nobel Peace Prize)was murdered.
I seem to remember that he wasn't killed by a palestinian.
It seems to show that there are also people in Israel who aren't willing to resolve anything peacefully with anyone else.
I guess being the chosen people is something both sides are still obsessed with.

Care to comment?
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:57 AM   #10
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Thanks for the links.

Here's one for you.
It's the Jenin massacre that never happened (so say Israel and Colin Powell).

Here's a picture of Jenin Main Square after the attack:

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gall...ocus_jenin.htm

Talk about landscaping, huh? But I guess all the people who lived in that square were terrorists...

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IMAGES ARE RATHER GRAPHIC AND WILL MAKE PEOPLE SICK.

WHATEVER HAPPENS AFTER CLICKING ON THE LINK IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, NOT MINE OR GOTHIC.NET's:

http://poetry.rotten.com/jenin/


I'm not saying with this that "my" side is right. If you notice, I came here to respond to a rather naive statement that started this thread (maybe you agree with his point of view).

I'm saying that "your" side has been shown again and again. I'm not racist or anti-semitic. I'm just playing devil's advocate, here, but by all means, continue...
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:28 PM   #11
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Yeh, i didnt realy hav enough time 2 c what's the general opinion here, n im actualy surpsrised by how much and at the same time how little you know.
We gave the palestinians more than one chance- in 1947 the UN sent the UNSCOP commety 2 find a way to resolve the palestinian- israely conflict and they suggested to divide the land and build 2 independant countries- an israely one and an palestinian one. We agreed, hell, we were so happy we would take anything they give us, even the desert though u cant realy do shit there. The palestinians didn't agree, they said their part was to small, than they said there wasn't enough natural resources there, n blah blah blah.
They weren't satasfied by whatever they were given unless it was the whole of israel n we were thrown to the ocean or sumetin.
"..does the term "occupied territories" ring a bell?..".
Hell yeh it does- they atacked us with no fucking reason and we've won.
They were the ones to start the war so they should be able to deal with the consiquences! And didnt even do it by themselves, they got other arabic countries to help em, so trust me- we deserve this teretory.
And yet, we are willing to give it up for a little pease and quiet.
N now we left gaza and evacuated ppl from israely setlments in Gush Katif (im not sure what's your name for it) all around gaza.
How many chances should we give them?
And in the meanwhile they train a new generation of suicide bombers on our teretory, they atack our soldiers and civilians, shoot ppl for nothing on our roads. They are not willing to cooperate and we are doing our best to resolve this issue.
And yeh, it's been 10 years since Isaac Rabin was murdered, and maybe that shows how hard it is for us to come to an agreement, and how strongly many ppl object to being so tolerant with palestinians.
A lot of israely ppl didn't want 2 leave Gush Katif, and yet we did it, because we are willing to make sacrifices, when was the last time the palestinians made a sacrifice? It seems that all we've been doing is giving in to them, and they do nothing in return. The terror never stops, n it doesn't matter what we do!
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:40 AM   #12
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Considering that Israel is a real state, and palestine a bunch of people trying to agree on what they disagree, it's a lot easier for Israel to act as one than it will ever be for the palestinians.

The actions of Israel are carried out by it's official armed forces and secret service.
Both represent officially the Israeli nation, no matter how many israeli citizens do not agree with those actions or policies.

The palestinian authority is hardly recognized by such extremist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah or Al-Aqsa (Sharon is also partly responsible for this).

It is therfore a lot harder to have a concerted action by palestinians.
(this is no attempt to forgive or excuse the palestinian side) It's just an example on how the actions of a few are not automatically legitimized by its whole people.
Abbas has criticized again and again the attacks made by palestinian insurgents.

It's the little things, like mixed Israeli and Palestinian patrols that I find that hold the key to a better understanding.

Legal or Illegal, the actions you described Lebanon war, Yom Kippur (I might know a bit more than you think) and other such military actions completely threw a whole ethnic group (palestinians) into refugee status (hence REFUGEE camps).

Israel took on the war and won. They didn't stay because they "deserved" it. They stayed because there was water around.

Do a little research on the water issue, and you'll find that a lot of military actions have absolutely nothing to do with reprisals for terrorist attacks, but as a further taking away of palestinian hydric resources.

On another note, the man responsible for the christian massacre of lebanese palestinians (Ariel Sharon) decided to turn coats again today and start (another) political party (he is a co-founder of Likud).

It's a way for him to hold his place down in history, in the steps of Ben Gurion (his former mentor). He wants to be the one to draw Israel’s definite borders.

Good luck to him, I say.

And the wall keeps getting built...
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:34 AM   #13
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Israely- Palestinian patrols? I have less than two years till i join the army and i pray god that i won't hav to serve near gaza or the border, so i doubt that many soldiers will actualy agree to it. There's no way in hell some 1 will actualy do it, i'd rather go to prison!
Look, we do the best to help them- we supply work places for over 10 000 palestinians though 10 precent of israely citizans dont have a work place. We help them to build their country, supply them with gas, electricity, water, food..
Just a while ago russian authorities promised to sell the palestinian police weapons, and they are currently training their police together with other countries and us.
We give them all their authorities all the means to build a country and now it's up to them.
There aren't that many countries that gave back terretories they occupied in a war like we did just now, what else is there to be done?
I do believe that most palestinian ppl want pease, but they are being controled by the terrosit organizations such as Hamass and Hezbolah and so we can't do much to help them exept of what we're doing now!
They initiated the war, they fled, how the fuck is it our fault that they're refugees?
We are not the ones that have a problem to compromise, we're making sacrifices all the time.
It doesn't matter why we stayed, what does matter is the fact that we've won and this land belongs to us. If we would have lost no one would lift a finger to help us!
And though it IS our land we are ready to give it up for pease, but it's never enough.
Abbas doesn't do shit to prevent atacks on israel, yet he always ready to condemn those actions. Oh how nice of him...
We are surounded by countries that pay A LOT of money to support terrorist organizations, terrorists infortrate israel every day, and the palestinian goverment knows all about it, but doesn't do anything. It's to convinient...
I dont remember Abass actualy doing sumetin 2 stop the terror exept of talking... a lot... pointlesly...
Under the cercumstances i think we're being pretty nice 2 em.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:21 AM   #14
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helena first off welcome, and please know that many of us Americans pray for you and your country.

You are a small piece of land surrounded by many countries that hate you which bears a striking resemblance to another country many years ago. It's disgusting.

Your military is a strong and impressive one, and I have read of their tactics and victories since I was a youngster.

Since you'd know better than anyone here, please tell me if my timeline and view of history is correct (I am asking helena):


Egypt owned the land the Palestinians resided on and treated them like gypsies and did not care for them.

Egypt acts on that region's hatred for Israel and does a sucker-punch of an attack.

Israel not only repels the invasion, they HAND THEM THEIR FUCKING ASSES in a MATTER OF HOURS and PUSH THEM BACK FURTHER than when they started.

As it has always been with the spoils of war, the Gaza Strip now becomes Israel’s to do with as they please.


helena, does that sound right? Every time I think of that war I get hard, such badasses!
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
Israely- Palestinian patrols? I have less than two years till i join the army and i pray god that i won't hav to serve near gaza or the border, so i doubt that many soldiers will actualy agree to it. There's no way in hell some 1 will actualy do it, i'd rather go to prison!
Wow. It’s lovely to see the positive attitude you have towards co-operation and peace-building. I’m really amazed. By God, if all Israelis thought like you, there would be no conflict....

Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
Look, we do the best to help them- we supply work places for over 10 000 palestinians though 10 precent of israely citizans dont have a work place. We help them to build their country, supply them with gas, electricity, water, food..

One could argue that you took it away from them and now sell it back at a lot more than price/cost. Water was just na example, but I’m glad you brought up the other ways besides military attacks as na opression of a people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
Just a while ago russian authorities promised to sell the palestinian police weapons, and they are currently training their police together with other countries and us.
We give them all their authorities all the means to build a country and now it's up to them.
There aren't that many countries that gave back terretories they occupied in a war like we did just now, what else is there to be done?
I dunno. Not targeting whole buildings to ruble to take out one terrorist would be a start, I think, but I’m sure I can come up with more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
They initiated the war, they fled, how the fuck is it our fault that they're refugees?
So, you have absolutely no problem bunching together the WHOLE of the palestinian people into a single bucket? Sounds like the thread title, where Israel is put up against Hamas (a terrorist organization) and confusing Hamas with THE WHOLE of the palestinian population.
Well done. You must really be proud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
We are not the ones that have a problem to compromise, we're making sacrifices all the time.
Yeah. I know. Sharon just turned left-wing so he could with all his heart give land to the Palestinians. His heart is so big, I can’t hold my tears. I’m just gonna forget all he did ‘till now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
It doesn't matter why we stayed, what does matter is the fact that we've won and this land belongs to us. If we would have lost no one would lift a finger to help us!
Funny, because the “giving” of the land was done by the US. So, it can be argued that a SHITLOAD of people lifted their fingers to help you. Israel has nuclear weapons. I suspect you didn’t make them yourselves.

Maybe there was a little helping finger there? So if all of the arab nations completely reduced Israel to rubble and make refugees out of the israelis (like they did before), I guess it would legitimately be their land now, huh? Funny, because that’s exactly what terrorists think. Hummmm....




Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
And though it IS our land we are ready to give it up for pease,


IS your land? I believe you were just the one justifying territorial annexation by a winning side in a war.
I read the Old Testament. I believe Moses guided the hebrew people through the desert because God’s people DID NOT HAVE THEIR OWN NATION. The territory and state of Israel must have grown in the desert just like Manah was sent to stop the starvation.
Miracles, ain’t they cool?

You either use history consistently, or support your historical views by todays standards, otherwise, this “conversation” will never end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
Abbas doesn't do shit to prevent atacks on israel, yet he always ready to condemn those actions. Oh how nice of him...
We are surounded by countries that pay A LOT of money to support terrorist organizations, terrorists infortrate israel every day, and the palestinian goverment knows all about it, but doesn't do anything. It's to convinient...
I dont remember Abass actualy doing sumetin 2 stop the terror exept of talking... a lot... pointlesly...
Under the cercumstances i think we're being pretty nice 2 em.

Funny, Israel spends years trying to downplay the palestinian authority and undermine them, but when they are finally given “authority”, Israelis are surprised that it was made too weak to uphold itself versus terrorist groups.

Maybe if they hadn’t undermined the palestinian authority for years (besides bombing its headquarters), they just might have enough “authority” to uphold peace amongst palestinians. How ironic...

I love open-minded discussions, please continue....

I haven’t brought up United Nations resolutions completely ignored and trampled by Israel all the way back to the 60’s, but I suggest you look them up. You might be surprised.
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlKilyu
You are a small piece of land surrounded by many countries that hate you which bears a striking resemblance to another country many years ago. It's disgusting.
I know. Liechtenstein, yeah? er....no? I mean, they are little and no one cares about them, or did you mean Luxemburg? Vatican?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlKilyu
Your military is a strong and impressive one
Of course it is. It was made in the US of A.

Now the Mossad ARE impressive and still the worlds best special operations force (no matter how much SEALS bragg about themselves)!

Number 2: the british SAS (but hey've had decades of practice 'cause of the IRA.

Number three: Rambo (he should count as number one, but what the hell, he's just ONE guy). Actually, 15 years ago, it was the aussies (who don't have much of a military capacity, but their special forces kick major arse.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:52 PM   #17
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I know. Liechtenstein, yeah? er....no? I mean, they are little and no one cares about them, or did you mean Luxemburg? Vatican?
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Ecuador.

You are so goddamn Euro-centric, Mael.
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:14 PM   #18
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Al-when you speak of "the spoils of war", you're reffering to the Gaza Strip, right? Just wanted to make sure, since "spoils of war" also includes not just territory, but populations (to be used/abused at will), ideological domination, ethnic cleansing, etc, etc.

Helena-I love how people on the Pro-Israel side always use the "we've given them plenty of chances" excuse for their blind hatred. In reality, those "chances for building a country" are pretty laughable to anybody who knows how to read and think logically. I remember the terms Israel put forward a few years ago. Now they said "we're allowing them to be an independant country", but if one read the terms, the only thing the Palestinians would be allowed to do was call themselves a "country", but the Isralis would still keep control of the roads, the airspace, the import/exporting of goods....in other words, it'd be the military occupation with a friendlier name. Sorry, but I'm calling "bullshit" on you.

And before you jump on my case with your "you don't understand because you live all the way over there", I'd like to point out how many of my friends are actually from Israel and going to school here (post-military term, not pre, as I have a feeling you're about to toss out). I hear all sides of this whole debacle you guys keeping digging yourselves deeper into from people who are very much part of that culture. In other words, fuck you and fuck your shrillness. Have a nice day.
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:22 PM   #19
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Loy, your posts are always thrilling to read.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:10 PM   #20
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Loy you just reminded me why I avoid this section anymore.

I don't think your anger was aimed at me, but part of me does, so I am waiting my response until I know for sure.

Speaking of violating UN laws, when did the UN sanction suicide bombers? If they are truely in an oppressive state, they might look towards a great man who got a foriegn occuppation out of his country not through violence, but peace.

Or does Ghandi not being a Muslim negate his works?
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:33 AM   #21
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No dude, it's the simple fact that by numbers alone India could drown completely any white peole in their country no matter how well armed they would be. During the last days of british occupation, the british had a lot more to deal with than pacifists (and they numbered in the tens to hunderds of thousands every gathering. It was sheer numbers alone that put the fear of God into the british.
Afetr all, it was obvious that if they didn't hadover the power to a pacifist, they'd eventually would have to do it to someone not so pacifist, which would be a lot of a worse deal for the British.
Funny, as we portuguese were the ones who put them there in the 1st place, when we gave the English a little bit of India as a wedding present when one of our pricesses married into the english crown (princess catherine, who is also responsible for the introductioon of tea in England).
We portuguese are that good at putting others in the middle of trouble and completely disapear when it hits the fan.

And remember that when India split into India and Pakistan, it was due to people who struggled alongside Ghandi and that weren't all that much into the peace thing (the muslims).

I also feel that Loy lashed out harshly (as have I), but anyone can tell what side of the fence the post that started this thread stands on (the israeli side), but this little schoolgirl chose to bitch about how we're all attacking and criticizing Israel and defending palestinians, when that simply isn't so. We've butted heads on this issue before and probably will again, but we've done it often enough for no newb to be able to come here and call this website biased.

So let me clear things for any outsiders reading this: we hate you, no matter who you pray to, who you don't pray to, and whether you listen to Marylin Manson or not.


I hope that clears things up a bit.

And no, Loy wasn't lashing out at you at all. don't be so selfish
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Old 11-23-2005, 10:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
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We portuguese are that good at putting others in the middle of trouble and completely disapear when it hits the fan.
yeah, you squirrely bastards.
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Old 11-25-2005, 03:23 PM   #23
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yeah, you squirrely bastards.

Squirrels are cute, little furry creatures with huge schlongs as Alkilyu showed once, so I don't see any prob with that!
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Old 11-25-2005, 03:45 PM   #24
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this is so pointless! u kno what? it is true- u can't judge us until u actualy lived here, and don't act all condecending and scynical and tell me that that's bullshit.
I kno very little about politics but i kno a lot about the reality in which i live, and it's easy 2 be so fucking smart when you live a thousand miles away.
I promise you that all your views will change after you'll see a little girl explode in front of you...
And it's so great to make plans about co- patrols, but when u're the one that has to actualy go three every day n serve in the occupied terretories you won't be so thrilled.
I dont want to die when im only 16!
We're doing so much effort to be fair to the palestinian ppl, and we dont want revenge- we just want pease, we're tired of al this killing..
What ever, it wont matter what i say there's always sumetin bad that we've done to the palestinians, or didn't, that u'll bring up, just n/m.....
this is pointless...
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Old 11-25-2005, 04:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
this is so pointless! u kno what? it is true- u can't judge us until u actualy lived here, and don't act all condecending and scynical and tell me that that's bullshit.
I kno very little about politics but i kno a lot about the reality in which i live, and it's easy 2 be so fucking smart when you live a thousand miles away.
Sorry Loy (and Mael) she's absolutely right.

Just as I say with another visitor to the Politics thread, just because you know someone from every single country on earth, that does not make you an expert. Bang and befriend all the forigeners you want, you cannot convince me that you're opinion is more valid because you "know this guy from that land", etc.
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