Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Whining

Whining This forum is for general whining. Please post all suicide threats, complaints about significant others, and statements about how unfair school is to this board.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-28-2011, 07:59 PM   #1
Pineapple_Juice
 
Pineapple_Juice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gallifrey
Posts: 2,817
My dad's been Born Again

It's not that I'm not happy for him, I am. Going to church and the whole believing in God thing has made a huge positive change in his personality and his outlook on life. I try to be supportive and I've never said anything bad about Christianity or anything like that. When he asks me to go to church I go and I smile and I sing the songs and I bow my head when necessary.

However, I'm seeing this slow shift in his mentality that's kind of sickening. Whenever someone asks him a question that might cause him to think about his religion in a negative way, he brushes it off and says "I don't have the answers, only God has the answers"-that sort of thing. This Sunday he told me that he refuses to try to understand, hear, see, or otherwise deal with anything in life that doesn't praise God in the way that his bible tells him to. He has NEVER been that way. He has always been open-minded and respectful of other peoples' wishes and it makes me really sad that this freaky cult mentality is already growing on him.

Even my nail polish color is under scrutiny by him now. He's never had any problems with my fashion choices or the color of my hair, but now he sees blue nail polish and smiles a knowing smile and asks me why I hate myself so much that I need "freaky" blue polish to cover up what God's given me.

We went to my uncle's church yesterday and the pastor said, verbatim "If you are gay, lesbian, a 'whoremonger', an adulterer, or a sex-before-marriager, you are going to burn in hell for eternity and that's that."

Honestly, I was surprised. This is a Calvary Chapel and I've been to several for friends and family and I've never heard ANYONE say that kind of stuff before. All through the sermon my grandmother sat there with tears in her eyes looking at my dad because she was so happy to see HIM finally happy, and when they said that BS about sex before marriage she just sat there and said nothing while my father nodded his head eagerly. My grandfather was sitting right next to my dad as well.

I thought about screaming "Fuck you" and walking out, but I shut my mouth because I didn't want to make waves with my family.

When I asked him later whether he agreed with the stuff the preacher had said, he just shook it off by saying the preacher "doesn't sugarcoat anything to make people feel better about themselves".

I don't know what to do. It's his choice and I'm not his mother and I have no right to tell him what to do with his life. This thing makes him feel like he has purpose and helps him sleep at night. But how can I sit there and condone this ugly transformation?

The preacher told a crowd of at least 300 people, while being recorded for TV, that black holes in space are portals to Hell. I'm not fucking joking. He also said that if anyone every broke into his house, he'd feel sorry for him because he has a ninja sword by his bed and would chop their heads off-and then break out his guns.

Should I continue to support these hateful, bigoted ideas that my dad keeps spewing in increasingly large amounts or should I say something and risk our relationship? Aside from his brothers, I am the only one he knows who has supported him in this decision. Even his wife (who is a massive cunt I might add) has flat-out refused to attend church and didn't even go to his baptism.
__________________
Now poop on them, Oliver.
Pineapple_Juice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 08:09 PM   #2
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
Often when people find a new path for their lives hey get so caught up in the excitement of it all that it becomes hard to really listen critically to what is going on. It doesn't mean that this will always be the case for him. Perhaps the reason that he is coming out with comments about not having the answers (and only God having the answers) is because on an unconscious level he is really struggling with what the minister is teaching and he does realise that sort of message isn't a good or loving thing to be teaching the congregation? A lot of the time when this sort of thing happens the person just needs time to process what is going on before being able to negotiate a path that will fulfill what they need.

Have you thought about telling him that you support him even though you don't agree with the things that the minister is saying? That way you get to show him that you are enjoying that he is happy, but you also are taking a stance and not compromising your own standpoint. It also models to your father that being happy and his new spiritual beliefs don't rely on blindly swallowing everything that the minister says.

But, at the end of the day - you can only be accountable for your own beliefs and life... and even though it might be a really painful thing to come to terms with, you can't be expected to teach your Dad or be his guide.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 08:28 PM   #3
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
I don't know if you can say anything, but you're not obligated to support him if he's going to start judging you. Its nice that he's finding something he's enjoying but that something shouldn't be dumped on you in a negative way.

I would say if he invites you to church again and you don't want to go, say it makes you uncomfortable and why. Don't make it necessarily about him, but you don't have to be dishonest about it.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 11:25 PM   #4
Acharis
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 729
Oh dear. It looks like he's got carried away, I'm hoping that it's an initial pendulum swing and he becomes more moderate... But the refusal to question his own/his churches attitude is a bit of a problem, that sort of denial allows very dodgy attitudes to go unchecked.


It's hard. This guy's your dad, you love him and want to see him happy...

But yeah. I think you do have every right to say something if that's what you wish to do.

There would be be waves; so if open fights aren't your thing, you could simply spare yourself by declining to go to church or leaving when something horrible is said. Maybe he'll take the hint... maybe


Oh yeah. And you seem to think it's you risking the relationship, but you actually seem quite loving and supportive. I think it's him causing the friction here by having attitudes of hate and expressing them in front of you.

Try saying "I love you but I don't feel okay with that" - and if he gets nasty/gets worse/keeps picking on you I'd give him a lot of space until he's willing to be respectful.
Acharis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 11:43 PM   #5
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Ask him to try other churches. Not other religions, just other churches.
Ask him again if he really believes what the preacher was saying, if he really thinks the pastor makes sense in saying black holes are portals to hell, and whether he would be open to looking for other pastors that don't say ridiculous shit like that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 12:15 AM   #6
Miss Absynthe
 
Miss Absynthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
There is a negotiation technique that might be useful to use with this sort of situation, because it is a way to help someone to start looking for resources to address a problem that exists without them having to admit that there is actually a problem. Once they see that there are other choices for them in that situation they then have space to admit that there was a problem there all along, but without the guilt and feelings of failure that is often associated with admitting there is a problem.

The basic framework of the technique is "Yes! No. Yes?"

The first point (Yes!) is to find a common ground for you both to agree on - "It's really exciting to see the changes that you have made in your life. I'm feeling really proud that you have stopped drinking/smoking/masturbating to donkey porn. Seeing the work that you have done in changing your habits is inspiring me to look at what I can do in my own life to be stronger as well."

Then the second point (No.) is able to be accepted by the mind in a softer way without the feeling of defensiveness that often is a knee-jerk reaction to a criticism - "I don't think that what the Minister was saying on Sunday about people going to hell is right, though. I mean, Uncle Bob is a really loving and good person and I not only don't I believe that he would go to hell just because he is gay, but you've been telling me that God is loving and I don't think that a loving god would send someone to hell, especially for loving someone else. In fact, I don't think a loving and forgiving god would send anyone to hell at all."

Then the third point (Yes?) is an invitation for a change in behaviour, even if that behaviour is just to re-examine what their thoughts were - "Don't you think that the Minister would be better to teach people about how powerful God's love is and how that love should inspire them to love other people unconditionally, the same way that God loves them?"

This way you aren't directly confronting your father, you aren't directly criticising his beliefs or his Minister.

It sets up a safe space in his mind for his unconscious to work on what you have said without him feeling defensive and without the situation escalating to the point where he just starts to shut out any call for him to critically think over things he is being taught.

It sets up a dialogue between you both that feels safe for him, so that you can really be open and talk to him - and a space where he can be open about any doubts about what his Minister is saying.

It also sets a space for you to be honest about how you are feeling about things, without being written off as acting out, not understanding or just being angry.
Miss Absynthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 01:07 AM   #7
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Ask him to try other churches. Not other religions, just other churches.
Ask him again if he really believes what the preacher was saying, if he really thinks the pastor makes sense in saying black holes are portals to hell, and whether he would be open to looking for other pastors that don't say ridiculous shit like that.
That might be a fantastic idea, maybe offer to go to a few different churches together and discuss each one?

Normally I'd be happy to suggest the Quakers or Unitarians, but that might be too hippie dippie just yet, so maybe an Evangelical Lutheran Church? Its the biggest Lutheran church in America and they're a pretty tolerant bunch. Even embracing depending on the specific church you go to.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 03:44 AM   #8
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Ask him to try other churches. Not other religions, just other churches.
Ask him again if he really believes what the preacher was saying, if he really thinks the pastor makes sense in saying black holes are portals to hell, and whether he would be open to looking for other pastors that don't say ridiculous shit like that.
This is exactly what I was going to suggest.
One minister at a church Mrs. Humane and I used to attend said "Vote yes on Proposition 8!". That was it, we left because we believe that if separation of church and state will work, it requires not only that government doesn't tell us how (and if) to worship, but church doesn't tell us how to vote.

You can also tell him that Jesus doesn't say anywhere in the New Testament anything about gays at all.
Apostle Paul, the Jew who was converted in middle age with his legacy traditions was the one who preached against gays.
You can tell him not to take your word for it but to read the New Testament for himself.
If he is receptive, you can also add that Jesus said there will be wolves in sheep's clothing who will claim to speak in His name, and could this pastor be one of them?

Miss Absynthe's "Oreo cookie" approach is also good strategy. Praise, offer the critical food for thought, and end with praise. It is easier to eat that way.

Good luck.
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 09:04 AM   #9
Saya
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanePain View Post
Apostle Paul, the Jew who was converted in middle age with his legacy traditions was the one who preached against gays.
And thanks to how Ancient Greek is very difficult to read, its really hard to know how he felt about consensual adult relationships. There are points where our modern Bibles translate to "homosexual men" where the word used meant unmanly men, and at the time it was practice for older men to sleep with young brothel eunuchs or servants who were really young, which must have been creepy at times.

There is also story of Jesus healing a Roman's servant where it is sometimes interpreted to mean that the servant was one such boy. And King David was so gay for Jonathan.
Saya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 01:37 PM   #10
Catch
 
Catch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bliss
Posts: 4,374
I feel sympathy. My Sister is like Born Again Ten's of Ones time now. I think it is a game plan to ensure getting into heaven. Wow, the self-righteousness died down a bit.... over the years. Yep, even when saying you believe in God, she's got a big speech about the importance of God in her life. ~ sigh
__________________
I Like Cheese!
Catch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 04:20 PM   #11
Pineapple_Juice
 
Pineapple_Juice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gallifrey
Posts: 2,817
thanks guys. i'mma take him to a different church and see if maybe that will help the situation.
__________________
Now poop on them, Oliver.
Pineapple_Juice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 06:38 PM   #12
AshleyO
 
AshleyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice View Post
It's not that I'm not happy for him, I am. Going to church and the whole believing in God thing has made a huge positive change in his personality and his outlook on life. I try to be supportive and I've never said anything bad about Christianity or anything like that. When he asks me to go to church I go and I smile and I sing the songs and I bow my head when necessary.
Isn't that cute?

Quote:
However, I'm seeing this slow shift in his mentality that's kind of sickening. Whenever someone asks him a question that might cause him to think about his religion in a negative way, he brushes it off and says "I don't have the answers, only God has the answers"-that sort of thing. This Sunday he told me that he refuses to try to understand, hear, see, or otherwise deal with anything in life that doesn't praise God in the way that his bible tells him to. He has NEVER been that way. He has always been open-minded and respectful of other peoples' wishes and it makes me really sad that this freaky cult mentality is already growing on him.
It matters to your dad. It makes him happy. Support it like a good daughter.

Quote:
Even my nail polish color is under scrutiny by him now. He's never had any problems with my fashion choices or the color of my hair, but now he sees blue nail polish and smiles a knowing smile and asks me why I hate myself so much that I need "freaky" blue polish to cover up what God's given me.
Blue nail polish? Maybe he has a good point.

Quote:
We went to my uncle's church yesterday and the pastor said, verbatim "If you are gay, lesbian, a 'whoremonger', an adulterer, or a sex-before-marriager, you are going to burn in hell for eternity and that's that."
Yeah. That's the gospel. You got a problem with that? Deal with it.

Quote:
Honestly, I was surprised. This is a Calvary Chapel and I've been to several for friends and family and I've never heard ANYONE say that kind of stuff before. All through the sermon my grandmother sat there with tears in her eyes looking at my dad because she was so happy to see HIM finally happy, and when they said that BS about sex before marriage she just sat there and said nothing while my father nodded his head eagerly. My grandfather was sitting right next to my dad as well.
This stuff is important! RESPECT IT! SERIOUSLY. I don't see what the problem is here. It's clearly right there in their texts... right? I mean. Do you have a guilty conscience? Been having sex before getting married?

Quote:
I thought about screaming "Fuck you" and walking out, but I shut my mouth because I didn't want to make waves with my family.
It's a church. You have to respect their rules. This isn't about you.

Quote:
When I asked him later whether he agreed with the stuff the preacher had said, he just shook it off by saying the preacher "doesn't sugarcoat anything to make people feel better about themselves".
Your dad should pray harder. Doubt like that will surely send him clear into the lake of fire. Be sure to remind him of this salient point.

Quote:
I don't know what to do. It's his choice and I'm not his mother and I have no right to tell him what to do with his life. This thing makes him feel like he has purpose and helps him sleep at night. But how can I sit there and condone this ugly transformation?
Because it's none of your business. Religion. It's PERSONAL. Again, deal with it.

Quote:
The preacher told a crowd of at least 300 people, while being recorded for TV, that black holes in space are portals to Hell. I'm not fucking joking. He also said that if anyone every broke into his house, he'd feel sorry for him because he has a ninja sword by his bed and would chop their heads off-and then break out his guns.
Makes sense. This shit is important. It works for them, Pineapple. That's what matters. They're happy. It has nothing to do with you.

Quote:
Should I continue to support these hateful, bigoted ideas that my dad keeps spewing in increasingly large amounts or should I say something and risk our relationship? Aside from his brothers, I am the only one he knows who has supported him in this decision. Even his wife (who is a massive cunt I might add) has flat-out refused to attend church and didn't even go to his baptism.

You should go to his baptism. Support him. Fact is, his beliefs bring him closer to the REAL TRUE GOD. That's what's important. I don't see what your problem is with this. It's personal and you're wrong for judging him.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao

"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.

Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
AshleyO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 06:57 PM   #13
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice View Post
I don't know what to do. It's his choice and I'm not his mother and I have no right to tell him what to do with his life. This thing makes him feel like he has purpose and helps him sleep at night. But how can I sit there and condone this ugly transformation?
You absolutely have the right to tell him what to do with his life. You're his daughter and you love him. Of course, if he really believes in Christianity, he loves Jesus more than you, so if the confrontation ruins your relationship, was anything really lost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus
Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it
According to Christianity your father's in the right here. You don't matter as much as eternity. Neither does your grandmother, grandfather, your brothers, your father's cunt of a wife, no one loves him like Jesus loves him and he can't love anyone more than he loves Jesus. If you can deal with this, join his congregation and believe what he believes, if you can't then you're in league with the devil and you and your blue nails will only pull him into hell with you. It's very simple.

Quote:
Should I continue to support these hateful, bigoted ideas that my dad keeps spewing in increasingly large amounts or should I say something and risk our relationship? Aside from his brothers, I am the only one he knows who has supported him in this decision. Even his wife (who is a massive cunt I might add) has flat-out refused to attend church and didn't even go to his baptism.
I think you've already made your decision, you just need to nut-up and let him know. Either you support his church and view of eternity, or you do not. Either he's wrong and you and the rest of the family matter more than Jesus, or you're all just stopping him from getting to heaven.

This is fire and brimstone forever. It's some serious REAL shit.

Good luck.

Edit: A different Church? One that says Jesus was sort of the son of God? Hell is real but you shouldn't make a big deal about it?

Good luck.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 07:07 PM   #14
AshleyO
 
AshleyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice View Post
thanks guys. i'mma take him to a different church and see if maybe that will help the situation.
Let me get this straight...

Instead of taking him to a church... that represents truly, the word of God...

You're taking him to a church... that reflects YOUR values. Not the bible's values.

Tell me, Pineapple... Is Hell actually real? Is Jesus just KIND OF the son of God or is he really the savior of all mankind? Which is it? How much of the bible (the word of God) is actually an elective and how much of it is actually fact?

Until every church in every society can stand up and say that Jesus was NOT DIVINE, you're going to have a problem with leading your father into the burning arms of Hell for going to a church that is LUKE WARM about the lord.

Christianity is not a faith that was meant to compromise. You've already lead him on the path of damnation. Mind if I have a little chat with him?

You are disrespecting his faith by taking him to a church that says "It's okay to be gay."
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao

"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.

Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
AshleyO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 11:16 PM   #15
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
I thought the concept of atheist extremists was bullshit, until I saw you assholes increasingly became caricatures of real people.
Wasn't there a time when you guys mocked me for my atheism as much as my politics, and now you're walking strawmen of both?
What
The
Shit
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 07:04 AM   #16
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
I don't think I ever mocked you for your atheism.

I may be giving PJ some tough l
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 07:23 AM   #17
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Crap, my phone posted before I was done.


I don't think I ever mocked you for your atheism, Alan. I've mocked you for a whole helluva lot and certainly challenged you on your atheism, but I don't remember mocking you.

I may be giving PJ some tough love, but honestly, what I just said is exactly what the bible says.

Most Chirstians allow culture to trump faith socially. They pick and choose from the scripture, they ignore harsh truths, and they perform all sorts of mental gymnastics so they can continue to believe in a god who demands not only total obedience, but the total ownership of your entire being before you're born, while you're alive, and after you're dead.

Quite frankly, I have more respect for PJ's father's bigoted anti-nailpolish and "beforemarriager" preacher, than whatever moderate preacher PJ is trying to get him to switch to. I'm sure I'd like the moderate preacher more personally, but in the context of eternity, in a world where god exists, my personal likes and dislikes are irrelevant.

Quite frankly, at least the fire and brimstone preacher is intellectually honest.

Now he's also evil, but at the end of the day, dishonest good people aren't much better than honest evil dipshits, especially when their dishonesty enables the evil dipshits to spread their message.

PJ said it herself: she supported her dad in this when no one else would this is partly her fault for giving deference (for what I assume are emotional reasons) to what is an intellectually broken and poisonous belief system.

Do I sympathize with her? Of course, but like her dad's preacher I'm not going to sugarcoat a harsh reality to save her feelings. What her Dad is getting involved in is dangerous, and if he ends up accepting it (and I mean really accepting it) it will ultimately destroy their relationship. That's what the bible demands.

You know what's fucked up? If God is real, and the bible is his book, then guess what? Her preacher is RIGHT. Her Dad needs to love Jesus more than her.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 07:47 AM   #18
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Note: I just realized you could have misinterpreted what I was saying: I'm not saying DON'T take him to the moderate preacher, That's actually a good tactic, he needs to be weaned off religion, and going cold-turkey won't have the right effect at this point.

However, I would like to point out the duplicity inherent in that action: in doing so, you're basically saying "What I find personally tasteful is more important than truth" God is meant to serve man, and not the other way around.

This very line of thought is an anathema to what is preached in the bible. You think Kontan and I are too extreme? I garauntee you the current preacher is just as extreme as Kontan and I have painted Christianity, if not moreso. Worse: Clearly, by her Dad's reaction to the preacher, he has an affection for this type of thinking.

What is happening to PJ's dad is serious, and dangerous. He is walking towards a mental abyss from which there is rarely a return, and I want to make sure she knows what she's really dealing with. Besides Kk and myself, who here has ever really dealt with fundamentalists in the family? Who here has dealt with REAL true believers?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #19
Alan
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
in doing so, you're basically saying "What I find personally tasteful is more important than truth" God is meant to serve man, and not the other way around.
That is something every single religious person does, regardless of how they rationalize otherwise. You as an atheist should know that.

The whole mentality of "I, an atheist, respect fundamentalists more because at least they're consistent in their religion" does not work because there's no such thing as consistency in religion.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #20
Spooky Spencer
 
Spooky Spencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "Historic" River City
Posts: 327
Blog Entries: 4
There's no one more devout than a born-again Atheist.
__________________
~ I prefer a head-on fight to all this sneaking around.

Zombie Protest:
"What do we want?" "Braaaaaaaaaaains...!"
"When do we want it?" "Braaaaaaaaaaains...!"
Spooky Spencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #21
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
That is something every single religious person does, regardless of how they rationalize otherwise. You as an atheist should know that.
I certainly do. That won't stop me from pointing it out. The very fact that people ignore this obvious logical flaw in religious thinking will probably cause religion to stick around for thousands of years past it's expiration date.

Quote:
The whole mentality of "I, an atheist, respect fundamentalists more because at least they're consistent in their religion" does not work because there's no such thing as consistency in religion.
Touche'.

However, it's not a dichotomy, I think overall fundamentalists are MORE consistent with the scripture than say, Unitarians, who don't believe in the doctrine of the ascention, or Quakers who believe that god is manifest through an "inner-light".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:51 PM   #22
AshleyO
 
AshleyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
Yeah, I'm not against PJ on this. Technically, I find it absolutely disgusting that her dad would embrace something so divisive that it makes him passively love his daughter less or at least think even less of her.

What's REALLY alarming is that if Alan's assertion is correct that Christianity supports all views on how to treat people, it says EVEN MORE about her dad that he'd go so far as to embrace the much much more ugly sides of the faith.

Actually, I'm very pissed for her. If I were talking to her dad, I would have shamed him for embracing such sickening thoughts.

Obviously, I would tell PJ to outright NOT condone this behavior and he needs to know the gravity of his decision by letting him know just how outraged and hurt his daughter is.

A lot of you are proposing a lighter touch in hopes that you can trick him into believing lighter. I'm simply proposing a very REAL shock to his system. I don't think the lighter approach is going to work if he's really this convinced and I'm proposing that he FEELS the alienation he's causing until he eventually comes around.

Pineapple, you do not ever have to condone this stuff and don't feel even slightest bit bad whichever tactics you choose to use. HE'S the one that's objectively wrong here. Not you.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao

"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.

Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
AshleyO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #23
Despanan
 
Despanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
It would seem to me, that if you're ready to take someone to a church which reflects your own values, you may as well do away with the whole religion thing entirely.

The whole point of God and religion is that he/it is a perfect totalitarian solution. It's not supposed to be a grey area, it's not debate, it's a solution, just like math is a solution. I'm not going to sit down and talk about what I FEEL 2+2 should equal, and even if I do, it won't change the answer. X+Y= God.

If you democratize religion, if you make it serve your own idea of God, and/or the community's idea of god, then what's the point? God doesn't give a shit what you THINK he should be like, he has an empirical nature and that nature does not change, ever, because if it changed it wouldn't be perfect.

Why believe in God if you're just going to use god to augment the ideas you already have? PJ knows how she feels socially, why does she need an invisible, flying, beared dictator to tell her it's okay?

Beyond senselessly over-romanticizing one's own life, or telling oneself/others sweet/coercive lies in order to feel better/manipulate them, what purpose does a democratized god serve?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
Despanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2011, 11:35 AM   #24
Grausamkeit
 
Grausamkeit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
PJ knows how she feels socially, why does she need an invisible, flying, bearded dictator to tell her it's okay?
Because people love Castro?
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen

...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone

Grausamkeit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 07:17 PM   #25
Catch
 
Catch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bliss
Posts: 4,374
Actually, thinking about it, do not willingly go to church. Then he will want you go all the time and you'll have to come up with an excuse that doesn't really make sense. Be distant, so if ever going to church, he is thankful.
__________________
I Like Cheese!
Catch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:17 PM.