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Old 03-04-2006, 07:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
Hey, you stole my line!

I said it last time someone did this!
Yes, I know. That's why I wrote it. This forum is filled with quotes from other members. Sorry I didn't cite your name.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:04 PM   #27
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You know why being goth cannot be defined as easily as other cultures?
Because great minds think alike; simple minds think the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:15 PM   #28
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Q1. Would you describe yourself as a Goth? No, right now I'm in a trial and error kind of phase in my life where I'm just trying to figure out who I am. I've become increasingly goth-like though.

Q2. Why? What does Goth mean to you? I think it means being more open minded to everything. Embracing the beaty in things others would find disgusting, but also in something they would consider beatiful too. Acepting people of every religion and race but keeping your own beliefs and culture.

Q3. How do you like to dress during the day and at night? Um I ussually just wear a pair of guys pants and a black shirt. I also wear a spiked colar and a duckie necklace alot

Q4. Are you trying to convey a message with the way you dress? If yes, what is it? No, I just wear what I like and don't care what people think

Q5. Has your view of what a Goth is changed over the time you’ve been involved in the subculture? Yeah a few times.

Q6. What sort of music do you listen to and what do you like about it? I listen to alot of differen't music. Punk, metal, goth, a select few pop and hip-hop songs, and posuer punk, which is aparently known as "pop-punk" but I think the name I gave it suits the music better.

Q7. What do you like to do in your spare time? Listen to music, hang out with friends, read, write, draw, play video games, play piano, and there's probibly more I haven't thought of at the moment.

Q8. How interested are you in art and literature? I love reading and looking at art. I like to write and draw too, but I'm very bad at both.

Q9. What ideals do you think you share with other Goths, if any? I guess I find it important to try not to judge people you don't know well and alot of goths seem to feel the same way.

Q10. Would it bother you if Goth went mainstream and became a fashion trend? Why? Not really, if someone thinks something looks cool good for them. I'm not going to get upset over something that stupid.

Q11. Is there a difference between younger Goths (12 – 17) and older Goths (18+)? If yes, what is it? Yes, I think older goths are really goth, they aren't trying to be cool because adults don't feel the need to fit in as much as kids do, and if they're older it's less likely to just be a phase.

Q12. Which, if either, do you think is more important in your subculture and why: style (what you wear and how you look) or content (what you know and how you feel)? Content, anyone can put on some black clothes and fishnets, but if they're close-minded or try to be something they really aren't then they aren't really goth in my mind.
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela


1) What is the common aim of a gothic?


Personally, I aim for the head.
ME TOO!!!!



I have a list.

A long, long, long list.

You?
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:02 PM   #30
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How is goth not a subculture, Santarea?
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:06 PM   #31
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{Hoping I can still reply to this}
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Q1. Would you describe yourself as a Goth?

Yes,I subscribe to the:"Goth is a state of mind" philosophy. It's not what you wear on the outside,but rather what's going on upstairs that truly makes you one.

Q2. Why? What does Goth mean to you?

It's looking at the world and asking:"Why"? It's an endless search for answers,tying to find your own way and what works for you.

Q3. How do you like to dress during the day and at night?

I wear what appeals to me,usually found at a local thrift store. I prefer my clothes to be vintage,so you'll never find me in a Mall.

Q4. Are you trying to convey a message with the way you dress? If yes, what is it?

I'm not really sure how to answer this.But Yes, I just wear what makes me feel good,and if happens to appear "odd" to others;that's really not my concern.

Q5. Has your view of what a Goth is changed over the time you’ve been involved in the subculture?

I have to admit that way way back there I used to think that Goth was nothing more then evil and wanting to kill yourself all the time.But I quickly learned to see past all the merchandising and stereotypes. And today I can't imagine a more unique group of people.

Q6. What sort of music do you listen to and what do you like about it?

I enjoy all kinds of music,but I'm not at all into Country or "Gangsta Rap". But my top music pick would have to be the Beatles.I also enjoy classic '80's metal like: AC/DC,Metallica,Guns N'Roses,Def Leppard,Poison,etc. Also '70's Punk and some disco(Go figure) such as:The Sex Pistols,The Clash,or ABBA...just a mixed bag with fries.

Q7. What do you like to do in your spare time?

I have a cat,it's a full time job. When I'm not giving him attention,I can be found drawing cartoons,reading,shopping in thrift stores and selling on EBay.

Q8. How interested are you in art and literature?

Very much so;always have been. I also think it's a shame that schools these days are cutting back on music and preforming art classes. But I like to keep myself well informed of the goings on in the world.I devoure newspapers,and can't get enough of good interesting books. Stephan King is a favorite(You saw that coming),but I also enjoy books on Wicca,Animation,and World History..as well as 'classics' like:"Lord of the Flies".

Q9. What ideals do you think you share with other Goths, if any?

The endless quest for knowledge,always looking for a different way to approach a problem. And just recently,I'm learning tolerance and respect of others,even if their ideas and opinions differ from my own.

Q10. Would it bother you if Goth went mainstream and became a fashion trend? Why?

I guess it's how you define:"Fashion trend". Stores like HotTopic stay in business by feeding their merchandise to kids who want to wear a mask(So to speak)and appear "in" with a certain subculture.Even if the next fad was "Goth" and everyone started dressing this way,nothing about them would have changed. They'd still be the same boring,regular people;but now totally:"in-style" and broke.

Q11. Is there a difference between younger Goths (12 – 17) and older Goths (18+)? If yes, what is it?

Older Goths can drive themselves to HotTopic(Ha!). In my opinion,the younger ones seem to be the filled with too much angst/depression and hate for the world. So much so that it seems to be almost "cool" to be depressed and cut yourself.Then use enough swear words to make a sailor cringe talking about it.I think the older you get,the more you realize what's really important,and how to deal with the world.

Q12. Which, if either, do you think is more important in your subculture and why: style (what you wear and how you look) or content (what you know and how you feel)?

I'd have to say:"Content". Style is just too easy to pull off that anybody can do it. Throw on some clothes and *poof* you're dressing the part of what ever rebellion want to join. But it takes more then a black t-shirt to be Goth. They have more thoughts,feelings,emotions,and creativity going on that the clothes being worn just add to the allure. If you don't have the right mindset,it's just a costume.

-Closing comment:Thanks for reading this;hope it helps,and I'm glad to contribute.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
I also enjoy books on Wicca,Animation,and World History..as well as 'classics' like:"Lord of the Flies".
Have you read 'The Secret Sharer' or 'The Heart of Darkness'? Both are by the same author, which just escaped my mind.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:23 PM   #33
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The words Reject_Bunnies has just said make me think he deserves a second chance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
The words Reject_Bunnies has just said make me think he deserves a second chance
i would counter this by saying his words serve to outline a more in-depth personality than what might first have been perceived. sometimes, time does serve to soften the jagged edges of a first impression.

i dig his honesty, just as i dig anyone who opens themself in an honest way, whether or not i agree with their content.
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:11 AM   #35
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Chucklehead??! Actually it does give me something useful. I could read all the books i wanted entitled 'what is goth', but nothing's going to give me a better understanding or insight than talking to those involved. That's how i see it anyway.

And cheers again to everyone who's replied to this thread, i've been reading all comments not just those answering my questions.
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:20 AM   #36
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Yay!! Stupid questions!! I wanna answer..I wanna!!

Age: Not old enough care about your educational requirements, but old enough to be paying for funding schools receive, and so far I'm disappointed in my purchase.

Gender: Feminazi?

Q1. Would you describe yourself as a Goth?
- Sure, why the fuck not.. I swear enough to be one.

Q2. Why? What does Goth mean to you?
- Goth means loving every bit of Robert Smith unconditionally,
even though he got fat.

Q3. How do you like to dress during the day and at night?

-In enough clothing to cover my naughty bits, preferably in
shades darker then pastel.

Q4. Are you trying to convey a message with the way you dress? If yes, what is it?
-Well, assuming my clothing has print of a communitive nature
then 'Yes' I would be unvoluntarily conveying a message,
most recently..."Everyone is Entitled to My Opinion" seems
to have appeared at random in my wardrobe.

Q5. Has your view of what a Goth is changed over the time you’ve been involved in the subculture?

-Yes, the overall intellegence level has decreased with the
addition of new members...yet the level of materialism has
increased?! Perhaps I'm noting a pattern??

Q6. What sort of music do you listen to and what do you like about it?

-Good music...I like it because it's good. To give you atleast
one answer of possible use, I won't discount any genre of
music due to it's Goth appropriate nature... If I like it, I listen
to it.

Q7. What do you like to do in your spare time?

-Explain "Spare Time"

Q8. How interested are you in art and literature?

Very.

Q9. What ideals do you think you share with other Goths, if any?

-Don't care.

Q10. Would it bother you if Goth went mainstream and became a fashion trend? Why?

-It is mainstream & I could give a rats ass.

Q11. Is there a difference between younger Goths (12 – 17) and older Goths (18+)? If yes, what is it?

-Yes... unless the younger have studied the background of
the "culture" and can truely indentify with it, they're likely only
in it for the clothes and excuse for self loathing depression.

Q12. Which, if either, do you think is more important in your subculture and why: style (what you wear and how you look) or content (what you know and how you feel)?

Neither. What's important is that no matter what you choose
"identify" with you realize who you are first. I am what I
am...Fuck the Rules.
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:00 AM   #37
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Quote:
Frankly, I don't see how anything is not a sub-culture as there is no "At-large" culture per se. That being said, by what parameters is this chucklehead marginalizing? Wanting us to outline how "we" set ourselves apart? Slapping a questionnaire onto a demographic doesn't give you anything useful.
Gothism is widely just accepted to be a subculture because of its influences inside other cultures. It's just another type of people inside a type of people with it's own literature, music, and art. I agree with you about the questionaire, but I don't think he's on here just for us to do the research for him.

Quote:
subculture

n : a social group within a national culture that has distinctive patterns of behavior and beliefs
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metatron
Have you read 'The Secret Sharer' or 'The Heart of Darkness'? Both are by the same author, which just escaped my mind.
Joseph Conrad?
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edible_eye
i would counter this by saying his words serve to outline a more in-depth personality than what might first have been perceived. sometimes, time does serve to soften the jagged edges of a first impression.

i dig his honesty, just as i dig anyone who opens themself in an honest way, whether or not i agree with their content.
I've got to agree with e_e here. Reject, I'm glad I took you off ignore! I always enjoy meeting people who have the capacity to be flexible in their thinking.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:49 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Child
Joseph Conrad?
Yeah! That's the one.
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:37 AM   #41
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right, i'm 'it' 'chucklehead' and 'he' am i? I'm a female actually and thank you metatron, i'm not here to ask you to do my work for me. Like i've said before, i've been doing extensive research in many areas, this is just one area - reaching people worldwide via the internet. And no santarea, you don't owe me anything, you don't owe me an explanation for your existance, your beliefs or for anything else you do.

I was merely asking politely for your help. if you don't want to, and it appears you don't by the angry tone i'm sensing, then you don't have to. Simple as. But its kind of nice that this topic is evoking such a reaction out of you, it definitely shows you have passion.
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:50 AM   #42
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fair enough
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:32 AM   #43
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BAH!

Not more of this shit!

If you want insight into the culture, do your own damned resaerch, kid. But you won't 'get it' unless you feel it in your heart. Don't just use us as an interesting fucking school paper.

I'm so sick of this.
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:06 PM   #44
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Gender: Female

Q1. Would you describe yourself as a Goth? Yes

Q2. Why? What does Goth mean to you? To me Goth is a romantic notion that the world could be more than it is but with the bittersweet knowledge that it probably never will be.

Q3. How do you like to dress during the day and at night? Shrug. I'm lazy I put cloths on preferably cloths that fit.

Q4. Are you trying to convey a message with the way you dress? If yes, what is it? Not really. I do attempt to avoid misrepresenting myself. So I won't wear anything that I don't feel comfortable in. Like frilly shit.

Q5. Has your view of what a Goth is changed over the time you’ve been involved in the subculture? yes. I think when I was in high school we were referred to as the 'freaks' and I just kind of thought of freaks as different and not afraid to be so. But now I've learned through the loving tutorship of a good friend of mine that there is a lot more history and philosophy to it that that. And that of course we are a diverse bunch.

Q6. What sort of music do you listen to and what do you like about it? I like industrial synth-pop stuff. I like pretty voices and romantic visual lyrics. Imagery kind of lifts me up to another place.

Q7. What do you like to do in your spare time? Dance, fuck around on the internet. What spare time?

Q8. How interested are you in art and literature? I don't get much of a chance to read other than text books. But I love modern art. Film and dance in particular. But then I do have a bachelor’s in dance. :-p

Q9. What ideals do you think you share with other Goths, if any? Hope. That we're wrong and the world isn't really as fucked up as we know it is.

Q10. Would it bother you if Goth went mainstream and became a fashion trend? Why? Isn't already? The only thing that would bother me about it is if the history and ideals of the movement were lost beneath the pop-culture crap.

Q11. Is there a difference between younger Goths (12 – 17) and older Goths (18+)? If yes, what is it? Yes, Age. Haha j/k. Maturity. Younger Goths haven’t had time to really define their philosophy and their identity. Things are still in flux, but that’s true with any young member of any culture or subculture.

Q12. Which, if either, do you think is more important in your subculture and why: style (what you wear and how you look) or content (what you know and how you feel)? Content, because I like the symbolism of the cloths and make-up and such. But that’s not really what it's about. That’s fashion and it's fun and important in its own way but it's a product of Goth not what Goth is itself.
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:54 PM   #45
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thanks for answering, dragon
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Old 03-05-2006, 04:34 PM   #46
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I may get beaten up for saying this, but I don't see what's wrong with the fact that Student wants to know a little about goths.
At least they're not questions like "why can't you be normal?"
Plus, it's supposed to be a positive outlook unto the culture.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:05 PM   #47
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Laura, why exactly did you choose to write a paper about the Gothic subculture? Your answer may help dissolve some of the resistance that you're meeting-- on the other hand, it might make us hate you.

Age: 16

Gender: Male

Q1. Would you describe yourself as a Goth?
Sure. I don't like the word, though.

Q2. Why? What does Goth mean to you?
I share many interests with other members of the subculture, though I do loathe so very much about it.

Q3. How do you like to dress during the day and at night?
I tend to dress as elegantly as I can using as little money as possible. People have described how I dress as similar to that worn by jazz musicians. I try very hard to avoid the Gothic cliche-- I don't wear all black often, though I'm generally wearing at least one black article of clothing. I usually wear black Levis or dress pants, a solid-color t-shirt, and a collared button-down shirt under an earth-tone jacket. Most of my clothing is vintage Banana Republic or from department stores. I almost always wear a fedora-- I have a black one and a green plaid (?) one. This is the most stereotypical dress I will ever wear: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...WallHat005.jpg

Q4. Are you trying to convey a message with the way you dress? If yes, what is it?
You can take pride in your appearance without conforming to an image or compromising your individuality.

Q5. Has your view of what a Goth is changed over the time you’ve been involved in the subculture?
Yes. I'm only loosely involved with it, but I've begun to take a vastly more cynical view of it-- the pretentiousness, the artificial darkness. Both Goths and the rest of us take the whole thing much too seriously, and that's the greatest downfall of the entire culture. Once you lose your perspective and sense of humor, it all becomes rediculous.

Q6. What sort of music do you listen to and what do you like about it?
I listen to most types of music. I love music that has a strong or interesting rhythm, such as jazz, blues, and industrial music. I listen to many sub-genres of rock, including grunge, metal (modern and classic), and Texas rock (ZZ Top, Stevie Ray Vaughn.) I think that Vivaldi's Four Seasons is perhaps the greatest piece ever composed. My favorite artists not yet mentioned are Tom Waits (most of all), Aerosmith, Sting, Audioslave, Nine Inch Nails, and Tori Amos.

Q7. What do you like to do in your spare time?
I like to visit pages on the internet. I watch select TV shows, I read, I draw, I play soccer.

Q8. How interested are you in art and literature?
Art (including literature and music) is the greatest love of my life.

Q9. What ideals do you think you share with other Goths, if any?
We find beauty where others do not. The rest is just icing, and I adhere to none of it.

Q10. Would it bother you if Goth went mainstream and became a fashion trend? Why?
It would, since it goes against the ideals of the culture and demeans it as a fashion rather than a philosophy or lifestyle.

Q11. Is there a difference between younger Goths (12 – 17) and older Goths (18+)? If yes, what is it?
Often. Most younger Goths understand almost nothing about the true nature of the culture.

Q12. Which, if either, do you think is more important in your subculture and why: style (what you wear and how you look) or content (what you know and how you feel)?
I've answered this in Q9.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:59 AM   #48
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Thanks a lot for responding, it means a lot with all the negative responses i'm receiving on here.

The reason i'm writing about goth subculture, well, that's more difficult to answer than i thought it would be. I love music, and that's all sorts of music, rock, pop, indie, dance, classical, motown, even gangsta rap on occasion. Along with that, i've always been a bit of a people watcher, i'm fascinated by how people act, how they hold themselves, how they dress, how they react. These sort of merge to form my fascination with music subcultures i suppose.

I was going to study 3 or 4 different subcultures for my dissertation but as that would have stretched me a bit too far, i chose to concentrate on just one. I could have picked any, but i chose goth because i find it the most interesting. From what i've found out, it seems to be the sort of thing that you don't get into lightly, it requires passion and commitment and i admire that. It requires a deep knowledge of the subject and a love for music, i admire that too.

If i was part of a subculture that i felt strongly about i would want to give my all to it. This is why i chose to contentrate on authenticity. I want to see what those involved in the subculture feel about fakers/posers, and i want to investigate what members get out of being considered an authentic member and what they think is the most important part of the culture they are in - style or content, which in a way is vanity versus intellectuality.

I don't know if i've explained myself well or not, or if i've offended you again but thats all i've got really. I don't think i'm going to win here, some of you have already resigned yourself to flaming me, so what i say isn't going to make one iota of difference. I'm an outsider, some of you just aren't going to accept me, it seems.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:13 AM   #49
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it's not you specifically, student - it's the fact that questionnaires such as this appear here, for the same reason, every few months.

part of doing 'reasearch' means browsing an area for the information you seek. if one of us plunked down next to you at school some day and started asking questions about you, your life, your education, your reasearch projects, your this and your that - you'd likely answer those questions with a smile. however, if another person from this site did the same, and then another and then another and another and another and another... you get the point... you'd likely ask - "why the fuck don't you ask someone else from the site for this information? i've answered all these questions already."

that's the point.

these qustions have been answered, on several personal bases, ad nauseum. the frustration you're experiencing from some here has to do with just that - yet another nameless, faceless researcher plunking down to spit out a carbon copy list of questions with perhaps a tweak or two. after a while, it all starts to feel pretty guinea pig-ish.

good luck with your paper, or whatever it is you're doing with the info.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:47 AM   #50
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Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 38
I get that i honestly do, i've already seen a fair few of these questionnaires, some of them are rather insulting too so i can understand the hostility. What i don't understand though is why those people who don't want to answer questions, who think i'm just another idiot writing a 'school paper', don't just ignore the thread instead of unfairly abusing me when they don't even know me. I've been polite and friendly since i've signed on here, i haven't asked insulting questions, i haven't abused anyone, i haven't demanded answers.

I'm not some snotty nosed kid jotting down a bunch of stereotypes like
'i met some goths and they were good and they wore black and they like poems and vampires and stuff'. I'm 21. I'm in my final year of a degree. I'm writing a dissertation involving serious research. I can't just read books, i have to talk to people involved, to get their point of view, to get valid information. I might get the wrong impression just reading books some academic wrote. But i'm also getting a bad impression from some people on here. And it may be naive of me, but i didn't expect it.
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