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Old 12-15-2005, 08:25 AM   #1
Wise Child
 
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Some one suggested starting a thread for Christianity, and the Bible in particular, after a few of us got on the subject in a movie thread and hijacked it to fuck. Here's the gist:

I think the Bible condones sexism, racism and slavery. Creation story: woman sins and, if that wasn't enough, tempts man to sin with her. Woman is told that henceforth she will defer to her husband, and is punished with painful childbirth. I think that this story is a pretty clear attempt to convince readers that woman is weak and sinful and not to be trusted. Blushing Heliophobe considers my reading to be a great injustice.

I also think that making the only - as I mistakenly put it - good woman in the Bible, good mainly by virtue of being a virgin, coupled with the idea of Eve's "forbidden fruit" as a metaphor for sex, belies a distaste towards female sexuality that underlies many major religions. Blushing Heliophobe points out that Mary is far from the "only" good woman in the Bible, and s/he is right - I made a sweeping generalisation there. *hangs head in shame* My point, though, was that Mary is the only good woman that most people can name off the top of their heads. Ask ten people to name one and I guarantee nine of them will answer Mary. She is the most glorified, and - how conveniant! - apparently pure as the driven snow.

I'll give you the story of Sarah and Hagar, BH - I confess I read it years ago and my memory may belie me. I thought Hagar ran away and was ordered by God to return to her mistress. Apologies if I got that wrong.

Salome may not have actually wanted John the Baptist's head herself, but since my point was that it was a woman who had him killed, it doesn't really matter much to what I was saying that her mother told her to.

And yes, BH, Mary Magdalene IS mentioned in the Bible, but if the Da Vinci Code theories are right - and I never said they were, I just drew attention to them - then her frequent mentions as a prostitute are really not the kinda mentions I meant.

I do believe, as I said, that most organised religion is akin to cultism - both dictate to their members, and demand to come first over all else in their life. But note, I did not say that believing in God makes you a fool, as you seem to have taken it. As I said, I just don't understand why people need to attach rules with more than a little in common with fascism, to their belief. I believe what I actually said is something like "why can't people just believe in god / whatever created them, without ripping each other to pieces over details?" It is not RELIGION that I am against. It is the fact that so many people use religion to validate their own intolerance.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to say that Christians are a bunch of morons. I have no problem with Christians. I have problems with the fact that the Bible was written by a tiny handful of (male) people, at a time when women, gay people, foreigners etc. were seen as little better than the donkeys they rode, and is still viewed as relevant in an age where we're supposed to accept others as they are. Yes, I have issues with racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery, and more. And if that makes ME intolerant, I can only apologise. It's a very particular kind of religious folk that I take issue with. Y'all know the ones I mean - the kind of people who in their immense self-righteousness feel justified in telling gay people that they're gonna burn, "'cause the Scripture says so".

Last edited by Empty_Purple_Stars; 12-15-2005 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:33 AM   #2
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Yeah, I guess it does a little. Okay. I will stop offering my back for the whip of gnet.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:36 AM   #3
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Discussions about religion usually have a tendancy of ending in massacre.

Not good.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:38 AM   #4
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This is true. But I'm sure people can be reasonable. If not, may their blood be upon my hands. As long as people show at least a passing respect for the viewpoints of others, it shouldn't take too long to clean up the carnage.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:39 AM   #5
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Hey Wise child if you really want o be insulted i can do that, consider that a love tap. I don't really care about your stupid debate, I'm tired of arguing over religion, it's been done before and the same stupid arguements come up everytime. It's just fucking old!! Sorry thats just my opinion.
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:46 AM   #6
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Which you are of course entitled to. I just don't understand why I had to "suck". And no, I don't especially want to be insulted, I posted here for a discussion, not the find of row I could go to the local youth club for.
Apologies if it's has been done, I'm relatively new compared to yourself but I have looked through the forums and I didn't find one with this particular discussion on it. Possibly it's there and I missed it. If that's the case, people don't have to post on here. Including you.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:08 AM   #7
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I searched for a thread about Christianity, too and couldn't find one, so I'm thankful that this one has been made. And seriously, let's have a mature, adult conversation, here. Let's not be posting "you suck" messages like five-year-olds, ok? No offense intended.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:10 AM   #8
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Yeah no having fun dammit this is a serious discussion!
I was just fucking around no need to get your panties in a wad!
WTF
NO OFFENSE
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:15 AM   #9
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Now for my viewpoint:
I think that faith is one of the biggest loads of crap ever. I mean, if something good happens, it is all part of god's plan, but if something bad happens, it is still for the better? How can it possibly be for the better? That's what I call being gullible. Remember, opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, so don't take things too seriously.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:25 AM   #10
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Assuming that you are going to get flamed is most likely going to get you flamed.

On to the topic. I have nothing against Christians. In fact my boyfriend is Christian. What I don't like are close minded religious idiots who are hypocrits, and have no idea about what their religion really represents. Those kind of people can be Muslim,Jewish,or Christian.They twist their religion into something full of hate.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Child
Okay, now crucify me for my beliefs, peoples. Flame me and cuss me and make me a martyr.
I'll do worse: Put you on Ignore.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:35 AM   #12
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Bleh! Enough with the martyr act! The original post I agree with almost entirely, why should woman be blamed for sin? People do, indeed, become almost maniacal about whatever religion they're involved in. I knew an annoying Wiccan who used to tell every else she knew what was wrong with their religions, rather than feeling secure in her own. Eh.......
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMoon
Bleh! Enough with the martyr act! The original post I agree with almost entirely, why should woman be blamed for sin? People do, indeed, become almost maniacal about whatever religion they're involved in. I knew an annoying Wiccan who used to tell every else she knew what was wrong with their religions, rather than feeling secure in her own. Eh.......
*Poke Poke*
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlKilyu




I'll do worse: Put you on Ignore.
Okay would just like to make it clear that the martyr thing was a JOKE. Religion>Bible>Jesus>crucify>martyr.

Hey, I never said it had to be funny.

Horrorgirl, my boyfriend is also a Christian. It's never been a problem though, as we respect each other's beliefs and we jog along just fine. He forsees a problem some vague "one day" in the future - he wants to get married one day. Not on your life, mate. And that's not even a religious thing - I just refuse to spend x-thousand of my hard-earned quids on something that is completely unnecessary nowadays, and that doesn't really mean anything to me. Honeymoon, yes. Wedding, no.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:46 AM   #15
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I like to believe we all go to the same place in the end. All these "religious" wars are so ... moronic. Stuff like the cruicades (I know I'm spelling that wrong. ;-; ), and fanatical Christians really give praising Jesus a bad name. I'll admit, I'm a devout Christian, but I'm not going to tell a Wiccan she is going to Hell for not accepting Christ into her life. That's bull shit.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:47 AM   #16
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Exactly, Danag. And that is why YOU are the kind of Christain I have no quarrel with.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
On the subject of religion, I wish I had one. It would make living easier if I had something to live for. However, it's just not something I can do, but I have the utmost respect for those who do have the personal conviction to have faith.
Yay. :3

Rotfl.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
"D" means 1TOOMANY... Perhaps I didn't make myself clear? Sorry. He understands, though.
No, no, I know. I was commenting on your second paragraph. *fixes his post*
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
D, this is a new person. This person doesn't have any idea what's happened here yet, so is therefore not sick of the discussion. If you're sick of religious discussions, please feel free not to post.

On the subject of religion, I wish I had one. It would make living easier if I had something to live for. However, it's just not something I can do, but I have the utmost respect for those who do have the personal conviction to have faith.
Me too. I was raised a Christian and I really miss that conviction that you'll go somewhere nice when you pop off, that you'll see all the people you love who've died again one day and that there's always someone on your side
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:01 AM   #20
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I used to be all huffy when it came to Christianity as well, but its just tiring. If faith in Christ makes you a better person, then good for you. I still get upset at narrow-minded Christians, but its their loss, not mine. Trampling over their faith will only make them mad and hate you. Listening to them patiently, however, does wonders. Or just dropping the subject.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
*Poke Poke*
Hey BABY!!

Where ya been?

*HUGGZORRZ*

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Old 12-15-2005, 10:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
I used to be all huffy when it came to Christianity as well, but its just tiring. If faith in Christ makes you a better person, then good for you. I still get upset at narrow-minded Christians, but its their loss, not mine. Trampling over their faith will only make them mad and hate you. Listening to them patiently, however, does wonders. Or just dropping the subject.
Well said. I agree.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:13 AM   #23
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Sorry Xng didn't know Gnet had such a new found compassion for newbies, since when? And really I was only was just stating my opinion. I'm just sick, grumpy and jumping a newbie in. I said i was just fucking around. And i was just stating my opinion, the religion debates are just old in my book, and nothing good comes out of them but bloodbaths. I do like a good bloodbath but can't we start one on a new debate.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
Last night I was making Christian jokes, not because I'm anti-Christian but because what I was saying was funny, & I didn't realize the head of "Campus Crusades" heard every word... I'm pretty sure he's pissed now.
My RE teacher once gave me a detention for scribbling my ball point in the front of my bible to get it to work. And then another one for asking if God wouldn't be happier knowing that I could finish what I was writing. Seriously, two detentions for that. People who take their faith - be it in God or in the wonderbra - so seriously they can't stand to hear a joke, deserve to be mocked. I'm a redhead, but I laugh as loud as anyone at ginger jokes, and I expect others to do the same, if it's funny it's funny and getting all red-faced will only make it funnier for the person cracking it.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:21 AM   #25
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OK I'll respect your wishes cause I like you Xng.
I never had anything really against this newb anyway, really.
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