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Music Finally, an entire forum devoted to talking about Doktor Avalanche, the drum machine for the Sisters of Mercy. You can talk about other bands, or other members of that band, too, if you want to be UNCOOL.

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Old 07-13-2008, 10:57 PM   #26
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I think he once said that when he dies he wants a bomb put in his casket so he can take all of his friends with him. A friend of mine who was a HUGE Mansonite told me that. I don't know if he really did say it though. But it's a truly fucked up though.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:05 AM   #27
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Manson says a lot of things as propaganda to make himself appear more alternative and controversial.

what I never understood was, just because people don't like him, they bash him and his work to death with no justification other than: his music isn't really goth or this or that, or it's "shit".

who really gives a fuck what label his music has, it sounds like what it sounds like and music labels are flexible and if not in your world they should, though not to the extent of Blondie being called metal (as an extreme example).

Could someone explain why the vast community seem to hate him? I don't like him all that much, but why so much (as I see it) unneeded negativity?
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:17 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Canvas Corpsey
Manson says a lot of things as propaganda to make himself appear more alternative and controversial.

what I never understood was, just because people don't like him, they bash him and his work to death with no justification other than: his music isn't really goth or this or that, or it's "shit".

who really gives a fuck what label his music has, it sounds like what it sounds like and music labels are flexible and if not in your world they should, though not to the extent of Blondie being called metal (as an extreme example).

Could someone explain why the vast community seem to hate him? I don't like him all that much, but why so much (as I see it) unneeded negativity?
Because he was labeled goth, and goths disapprove, since only they are allow to bestow that title to people. He isn't goth, musically or otherwise. On a personal note, I love Manson.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:47 AM   #29
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Well these goth folk seem like a bunch of stuck up prats to me, and need to get over these stupid things. It's when people get like this that i see them as no different from the folk who listen to a certain band just because it's the popular thing.

Two things I can't stand in people;

1. Having no personality or opinion of their own, basically being a pack rat and someone who lives on trends.

2. Tearing something down for no apparent reason other than it doesn't sit with you. I don't like George Bush, doesn't mean I fly to America and assassinate him or find any excuse where he is involved to slaughter him ( as fun as it is)

'Course that's just me

and a belated "AMEN!" to Gothicus' post.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:12 AM   #30
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by dre bin laden
well, if anyone hasn't listened to the new album ill save you the embarassment and tell you right now: unless you want to be depressed for days don't buy it. i mean, the golden age of grotesque sounded a lot different than past albums (and mOBSCENE and the new shit were so fucking annoying not to mention EVERYWHERE), but it had some good tracks (vodevil, slut garden, paranoir, etc.) even if they didnt sound like regular manson. so when my friend baught the new album, i was prepared for the worst (heart shaped glasses? what?), and i must say, i wasn't nearly prepared for what i heard. we both sat next to eachother with our mouths gaping open trying to give the garbage that was coming out of the stereo a chance. every single song was the emoest thing ive ever heard. i am not exaggerating nor lying when i say we took the cd into the backyard and burnt it while mourning a dead marilyn manson.
on a lighter note, let's all pay our respects and name our favorite manson song(s) :o)
ill start (i have a lot, please don't mind me im in mourning..): the speed of pain, cyclops, coma white, lamb of god, great big white world, rock is dead, coma black, sweet tooth.

RIP REVEREND MARILYN MANSON
Doesn't anyone realize that Manson's always did what he could just to make money!? Maybe the reason he sounds emo in his newer shit is because he is just another idiot who changes his sound to go along with what's "in" at the time(A7X maybe?) It's all about money dear, no one gives half a shit about anything else in music these days. Why do you think i stick to the 70's and 80's?
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanePain
I liked The Beautiful People video.
That's about the only song i can really stand of him. It makes a lot of sense.


Manson's just as goth as Hot Topic.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:28 AM   #32
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It is a concept album, you have to look further than what is in your ears. Manson is not trying to reinvent himself or anthing, its conceptual.

Quote:
There are several references in the album to Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, with ties to Manson's parallel work in Phantasmagoria: The Visions of Lewis Carroll. In the album's title Eat Me, Drink Me, "Eat Me" comes from the cake that Alice eats to grow in size, and "Drink Me" comes from the potion which makes her shrink.

The song "Evidence"could be a reference to Chapter 12: "Alice's Evidence", and in "Are You The Rabbit?" there is a clear reference to the White Rabbit ("I'm late, I'm late!"). "Are You The Rabbit?" also brings up Doppelherz, Manson's short movie released with the Golden Age of Grotesque album, with some lyrics taken from the movie ("I'm a kick stand in your mouth" and "I know the insurance won't cover this").

In the title track the lyrics also contain references to the Red Queen ("In the wasteland / on the way to the Red Queen...") and beheadings ("I was invited to a beheading today"). The beheading reference can be seen also as a nod to Vladmir Nabokov's Invitation to a Beheading.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_Me%2C_Drink_Me
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:17 AM   #33
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The thing that most annoys me about his is his open willingness to bastardize anything that Lewis Carroll ever wrote.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:10 PM   #34
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I was hoping Marilyn Manson had died...
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Metabolik
I was hoping Marilyn Manson had died...
Wow, aren't you the goffik non-conformist. I am in awe of your trend avoidance.

Oh yeah, I forgot it's popular to hate Manson.

Your music taste sucks, you can't insult any artist. Seriously.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:13 PM   #36
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what I never understood was, just because people don't like him, they bash him and his work to death with no justification other than: his music isn't really goth or this or that, or it's "shit".
i second that, but think i may have some insight. manson has described his music as "designed to speak to the people who understand it and to scare the people who don’t"
i'm not saying all these people are actually afraid of marilyn manson, but just that they don't understand what he has tried to say, and we know how people get defensive when they don't understand things.......


Quote:
and a belated "AMEN!" to Gothicus' post.
id like to second this, except i think dita's a lot hotter than the new bitch, and if you've seen her she's completely trying to be dita.

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Doesn't anyone realize that Manson's always did what he could just to make money!? Maybe the reason he sounds emo in his newer shit is because he is just another idiot who changes his sound to go along with what's "in" at the time(A7X maybe?) It's all about money dear, no one gives half a shit about anything else in music these days.
since ive started listening to manson people have been telling me this and i always just refused to accept it. now i think it is becoming an inevitable truth... or he could just be getting old? although i really don't think this was the case in past albums. i genuinely think manson was doing his own thing when he was with the spooky kids, and portrait of an american family was very original. first i hated twiggy for leaving the band, now i see he was onto something...

Quote:
It is a concept album, you have to look further than what is in your ears. Manson is not trying to reinvent himself or anthing, its conceptual.
wow. i don't know why i didn't look into this. your post makes me wonder if manson is just maturing as an artist. i do however think that even if all these great things were incorporated into "eat me drink me", he could have made it a little less repetitive sound-wise.

this thread wasn't intended to raise controversy as to whether manson is goth or not. i just figured that with such a variety of individuals on this board, people would have an eclectic taste in music, and not limit themselves or their discussions to just one or two genres. some of you have proved me wrong, but others have given me evidence that there are still individuals who identify with this subculture but also can enjoy a heterogeneous selection of music. still others have respectfully stated that manson's music just does not go well with them, which is a perfect example of expressing a personal opinion based on experience. i'd like to thank the two latter groups i mentioned for being able to manifest their views in a rational, open-minded manner.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:09 PM   #37
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He never appealed to me in the slightest.

Orgy on the other hand... now that was a different story. Too bad they sucked after Vapor Transmission.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:06 AM   #38
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I didn't really care for EAT ME DRINK ME that much either. Putting Holes in Happiness was pretty much the only song on it I'd bother to really listen to more then once. For me Mechanical Animals was his best album.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Manson sucks, and always has.

It has been said in thread after thread, but since the poster is new I'll say it again - he is not goth and is a cheap industry rip off of our scene.

He is to goth what Winger is to metal.
So?

I love manson, I think his music is very creative and pleasant to listen to. (Apart from Eat Me, Drink Me)

No, he isn't goth...but should we refrain from posting about Nina Simone or Patrick Wolf? Both intelligent and amazing musicians, they aren't goth. Doesn't make them less credible.

People talk about doom, noise, ambient, classical, black metal etc on this site, that isn't goth...

You're just pissed because of the name "Marilyn Manson". That is it, end of.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:37 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JCC
Oh yeah, I forgot it's popular to hate Manson.
Awesome. Then I've been doing the popular thing since the early 90s! Woo Hoo!
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:45 PM   #41
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I suppose then that I've been doing the UNpopular thing. Not that it bugs me.

Anyway, I didn't know that Marilyn had been called goth. I've seen his music described as "industrial metal." I think that label/genre fits. Anyway, I do like Marilyn Manson a lot, but the one thing that bothers me is that he does "borrow" a lot from Alice Cooper. Fer sure, Marilyn isn't the first to be "influenced" by artists who came before him. It's just irritating when it's obvious.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:46 AM   #42
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I thought Alice Cooper did more of the quirky horror thing as opposed to Manson, which seems a tad more serious.

I would look into it more...but...I don't actually care that much.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:59 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimm
Manson's just as goth as Hot Topic.
Odd thing that the same can be stated about you, eh? xD
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:30 PM   #44
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Who gives a fuck whether Manson is Goth? Seriously? Tom Waits isn't Goth, he's got a following on here. The Dresden Dolls aren't Goth. All of the Punk mentioned on Gnet isn't Goth. Goth isn't some fucking badge of honour, it's a classification, it's what you are, it doesn't make them any better since it's just pigeon-holing based on prevalent properties.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Who gives a fuck whether Manson is Goth? Seriously? Tom Waits isn't Goth, he's got a following on here. The Dresden Dolls aren't Goth. All of the Punk mentioned on Gnet isn't Goth. Goth isn't some fucking badge of honour, it's a classification, it's what you are, it doesn't make them any better since it's just pigeon-holing based on prevalent properties.
I agree with you totally man, but people feel the need to organize everything they come to, guess it's one of the fleaws of human nature eh?
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Who gives a fuck whether Manson is Goth? Seriously? Tom Waits isn't Goth, he's got a following on here. The Dresden Dolls aren't Goth. All of the Punk mentioned on Gnet isn't Goth. Goth isn't some fucking badge of honour, it's a classification, it's what you are, it doesn't make them any better since it's just pigeon-holing based on prevalent properties.
How come people listen to you when you say it? XD! lol
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:10 AM   #47
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Guys, i think you've defeated yourselves. It's popular and "Goff" to like Manson, but it's popular and "Goth" to hate him.

Personally I like him. Not as much as I used to. Thanks to Gothic.net I've found out heaps better "Gothic" bands. I used to love Manson for his wierdness, the way he would act, his music etc. I'm growing less fond of him (especially after Eat Me, Drink Me). He certainly did have a unique sound compared to a lot of the mainstream band's I've heard. Though I only listen to a few hundred bands, so I'm not really an expert in many area's of music aside from the phases I've been through that a lot of kids go through (Slipknot, Manson, Killswitch Engage (and other Metalcore) etc.)
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:19 AM   #48
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I've never classified Marilyn as "Goth", i've always classified him as "Rock" and nothing more.
I love Marilyn, but to me, he is more of a philosopher then he is a musician.
I listen to his songs not because they are "catchy", but because a lot of them are deep and meaningful, and I think that many of us could relate to atleast some of his lyrics.
Ill just throw an example out here from the song 'The Beautiful People' for the shits and giggles;

"You can't see the forest for the trees,
and you can't smell your own shit on your knees".

He is talking about close-minded people, the "beautiful" people, materialistic people, they can't see each tree in the forest as an individual tree, instead they just see it as a forest. And they have their head so far up their ass, they can't even smell their own shit on their knees.

He's against the stereotypical labels that society has casted onto each and every single one of us, so while your preaching about "he's a cheap industry rip off of us!", he was with you all along, and if anything, your only contributing to the problem.

I'm not saying you have to like him, but hes cheap and ripping us off for the industry? Pshh. You sold yourself out if you honestly think that.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:26 PM   #49
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Exclamation controversy

I'm not into MM, but I think that he has made a mark by blending genre and styles into his own sound/look. The mass media who thrives on controversy fans the flames and tosses labels around and folks eat it up.
I have to agree on the failure/success comment in regards to wealth, respect and the ability to obtain top grade f*ck toys.
It seems funny to me that some here seem personally insulted that anyone would consider MM goth. Mainstream culture is full of morons and snakes. Learn to live with it, its not worth the energy spent getting uppity about it. IMO.
Feel free to start a band, manage to keep a bunch of drug addled emotional cripples together through tours, get famous (without ODing) and show the world what GOTH really is! LOL
Just saw Jesus and Mary chain, kinda sad, but ok. Saw Peter Murphy a month ago, WOW, that guy is a performer! super great show. Never seen MM perform....
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:13 AM   #50
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I think it was Tim Sköld that fucked up another album. Twiggy's coming back now, and I think they'll get better again, even though I liked Eat Me, Drink Me almost as much as their other albums.

btw, do anyone here know if Manson said he is goth?

>I love Marilyn, but to me, he is more of a philosopher then he is a musician

I've always got the impression that Brian isn't such a big part of the music, that he's generally been focusing on, as you said, his philosophies.
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