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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 02-25-2006, 04:42 PM   #26
rockandrose
 
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I can't even bring myself to eat a piece of steak.

Whilst those around me enoy their meaty lunch/dinner, I prefer my meal without meat, with the exception of certain seafood.

I still have certain images of animals being slaughtered in the slaughter house, painted at the back of my mind, in which originated from an American documentary I had watched. However, even before when I had seen such imagery of animals being killed, I began to slowly step away from cosuming meat.

A lot of my friends say I'm crazy or that I'm missing out, but I honestly don't miss consuming meat and the sight/smell doesn't strike my cravings for meat consumption.

I am not an animal rights activitist, but I certainly do generally love animals. I've chosen not to eat meat, and what others eat isn't a big deal to me.
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:09 PM   #27
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I became vegetarian primarily because I'm a Buddhist, and eating meat, personally, feels kind of selfish. I can lead a perfectly healthy life as a vegetarian, so why continue eating meat? If I miss the taste, I eat a soy version of what I miss. I don't think people are superior to animals at all, I have had many pets who expressed emotions, intelligence and personality.

I don't, however, have a problem with other people eating meat because I know they do not share my views. I just hate it when people get mean about it. Like when people say "I'm going to eat enough meat for the both of us."
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
The Bible states that God put animals there for man to use, and Adam ate animals.

So if your going at it from a religious stand point, most all religions tell that men were made to eat animals. Some religions are more specific on which animals, but most all say its a good thing (with the exception of some Buddahists).

If you believe animals shouldn't be killed for meat, then you go against a majority of the population worldwides' religious beliefs.
If you're going to argue that the Bible permits us to eat meat, then you have to be perfectly prepared to argue the validity of the Bible in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Aside from that, people take away animal habitats for land use. Your sitting in a house built on some animals home, I'm sure the animals living there were displace and/or killed. Your also probably wearing trainers/athletic shoes or boots of somesort, also made from animals. If you are wearing something 'natural', then you can bet the facotry that made them, unless they were hand woven from reeds by hippies living in a nature preserve, then animals in someway were killed and displaced as well.
What's your point? Are you saying more animals should be bred only to lead full lives of torture...because I'm living on land that horses used to run on? Is that really a good justification? I'm not wearing shoes made from animals, I have more sense than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
I could go on for hours about how people who complain about animal rights are quite happily violating a million different animals in different ways they never thought of, but you get the idea.
So you're judging us all on the behavior of some? That's fair. Obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
My point being is if you saved all those trout that PeTA complains about during fishing tourneys, they will still die horrible deaths being eaten by bears, or some other predator. It happens. Man is just another link in the food chain.
Many species of fish are becoming extinct because of our eating fish. NOT because bears eat them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
OF course if your arguement is more about keeping pets, well, I know many people who have pets, who love them, but treat them like crap. Not on purpose, but because they are just not equipt to deal with them. Like people in apartments with big dogs. Or people in apartments with 5 cats. Or people who buy fish, and don't know how to properly maintain the tank so the fish die in a year.

Doesn't mean we need to ban all pet stores. People are people, and do their best, but shit happens. Life goes on.
...what the fuck are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
And in the end, the animals will probably be just as good, if not better, than they would have been without human interference.
That is totally untrue. There are more pigs and cows, etc, than ever would have been born without factory farming. Is that good? Let's take into consideration that they will more than likely suffer from the day they're born until the day they die (probably at about 2/5 of their natural lifespan at best). Can you justify a lifetime of suffering by the gift of forcing something into existance in the first place.

Look for more facts next time.
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunction
Debatable; for instance, 9 kg of feed per 1 kg of beef.

The land used for feed could be used for other crops that could sustain necessary protein. Not suggesting vegetarian diet so much as less meat-based diet.
I think you misinterpreted my statement. I meant that there's no way to factory farm without causing a great deal of suffering, not that meat is the only way to feed the public.

I've read about how the world's third world countries would no longer have a single issue with hunger if the space used to raise farm animals were used to harvest crops. It's pretty well scientifically backed up. No denying it really anymore.
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TStone
There are animals in the wide world which do farm food, we are not so individual, so if any of you feel guilt for following your instinctual duty?

More meat for me.
By George, you're right. Let's follow our instincts! Everyone who wants to **** people, do so, despite the suffering it causes! Anyone who feels like flinging their poo (like some monkeys), do so! Everyone who wants to kill the children of their new wife, do so (this is something seen in the wild with non-human animals, and is a logical method of making one's own seed the dominant one)!

Thank you for changing my life.

P.S. Homo sapiens are better suited to be herbivores, and that is a fact. Are you really that much more like a shark than the herbivorous Gorilla? Don't flatter yourself.
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
I drink lots of soy milk actually. I think probably since I'm lactose intolerant...
It's a good source of protein when I work out...
But meat is the mainstay of building muscle.
Plus nothing beats a burger...
The protein you recieve from meat is not only in too high a quantity for the human body to process properly, but it is also too acidic and less healthy for you than the protein you could get from eating plants. So, yeah, a lot of things beat burgers.
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Old 02-25-2006, 05:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
I drink lots of soy milk actually. I think probably since I'm lactose intolerant...
It's a good source of protein when I work out...
But meat is the mainstay of building muscle.
Plus nothing beats a burger...
Really? Because I can cook one mean tofu burger ^_^
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
Plus spinach and broccoli aren't readily metabolized...and they taste horrible. *shudders*
You may have health issues that hold back your ability to convert to a vegetarian or vegan diet, but they'd probably be well addressed and solved if the world were more open to addressing these issues. Taste is not a valid argument ever. There are more vegetarian foods in this world that taste better than a veggie burger. Plus, haven't you ever eaten a shitty tasting slice of cow?
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:04 PM   #34
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It depends on the brand you get, some should be called "I Can't Believe Its Not Meat!" and some should be called "Rabbit Feed". That I can think of, Yves has the best brand of soy burgers.
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:21 PM   #35
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What are you talking about? And I love broccoli and especially spinach. Ever had spinach pizza? Good stuff.
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder
But anyway, there wouldn't be so many problems with it if the entire animal was used in a possitive way, and not abused durring the process. Hide for clothing, bone for tools, instruments, etc. Internal organs can be used for food (for those who like chitlins. nasty shit), or to feed other animals, etc.
Based on your argument here, I assume you are also a follower of the belief that the same should be done with dead or terminally ill humans?
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:44 PM   #37
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I'm talking about individuals too. Individuals less able than us who suffer every day of their entire lives because of your taste buds, mate. It's not about you, it's about them. Think pretty highly of yourself, eh?

So you are wrong in a way. But you know, we could all but abolish the suffering if the GROUP became vegetarian or vegan.

As for your argument about [eating] other animals playing a significant part of our evolution...

The oppression of the Jews had an important part in the reforming of Isreal. Does that mean we should continue to oppress people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santarea
I'm anti-cruelty, yet pro-steak.
You're also a dumb-arse.
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Old 02-25-2006, 07:06 PM   #38
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This is why I won't join PETA. People get overheated.
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Old 02-25-2006, 07:17 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santarea
What a FANTASTIC argument. You won me over.
Good. I though it'd be a lot harder given your brilliant argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
You know what. Go fuck yourself. And choke on that spinach on the way...Popeye.
If you're going to break out with the ad hominems at least do it in a more intellectually indirect way...

How am I contributing to the general HUMAN population's suffering btw? Oh, indirectly of course, just like you "mate"(no pun) with the HUMAN population in the ME currently, correct?
And also, the Jews aren't subhuman last time I checked. They just need to become more
Orthodox...
It's pretty cool that you can take intelligent discussion as insult. (You know the 'dumb-arse' comment wasn't meant for you, right?)

Ah, so you're speaking of the HUMAN suffering. OK, well, did you know that factory farming stands in the way of curing WORLD HUNGER? That includes humans, right? It's a well established fact that the amount of space and food used to rear farm animals would, if solely used for growing crops for human consumption, CURE WORLD HUNGER. I believe Einstein was the first person to present this theory, though it has been discussed and studied over and over again. So there you go. Also an omnivorous diet isn't as healthy for humans as it is for some other animals. Remember how we evolved from herbivorous primates? Yeah, it's all that. We're not well adapted to meat consumption. Y'know, like how we can't eat it raw?

Do you need me to go on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
This is why I won't join PETA. People get overheated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santarea
I gotta admire their ad-campaigns. Love the audacity. I just don't share their views.
Just so it's established, I fucking hate PETA.
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Old 02-25-2006, 07:32 PM   #40
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Are you suggesting that "Good. I though it'd be a lot harder given your brilliant argument" wasn't sarcasm? I love your rebuttals.
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Old 02-25-2006, 08:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
Here's something I actually dug up from my online "food forever" class...



We don't need more food, we need LESS people. And less animals that those same people OVERBREED.
Especially with the technology we have, manual labor is becoming more mechanized...
Do you see THIS?
Are you aware of why people overbreed?

Because if you were, you'd realize that it's directly related to the distribution of wealth in the world. With wealth comes a greater availability of food. With more members in a family, you have the opportunity to create substantially larger income for you and your family. Not to mention that with lack of food there is no guarantee of your family surviving on UNLESS you overbreed. I'm not going to get into politics, but I will say purely that given their current situation the solution, if things are to remain, economically, as they are, is more food.
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Old 02-25-2006, 09:44 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
Well then, kill me and every meat-eater in your way. That's the only way your utopia will be fulfilled. Dumb ass.
I think your feeling threatened, aren't you? Because what I'm saying is, let's give up a small amount of something extra special for our taste buds so that starving children can live.
You, on the other hand, believe it's far more logical that we kill the children and, of course, their parents...just because. Your justification is flawed, mate.

But what you really believe is that we should ignore it all, don't you? Because you don't want all those people to die, and you don't want to give up hamburgers for the sake of those starving children.

But it's OK, I'm obviously a 'dumb ass'. You're the reasonable one.

You're almost as cool as Santarea, who, instead of arguing his preferences, makes fun of people who have intelligent arguments that oppose them.
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Old 02-25-2006, 10:41 PM   #43
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It's cute because
a) you think a person can tell anothers gender by there words (that's called sexism!)
b) I actually pissed you off this much
c) You think that because you think 'organic' means shit, and you still think that 'free range' means anything in America! (There's not legal requirement for putting 'free range' on shit in most of this side of the world, and in most cases, it probably means nothing at all.)

You're cute.

I just looked at you profile and realised who you are! I didn't like you before either! I like your arguments like "Well the Dalai Lama does this and he's vegetarian..." So? Did you actually have a point? Come on, I know you almost have half a brain, I'd love to argue properly with you.

You're so closed minded it's cute.
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Old 02-25-2006, 10:52 PM   #44
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What in Hades are you talking about???
Have you never met Santarea before?
Talking to her in such a way should be a capital sin in this site!!
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Old 02-25-2006, 10:58 PM   #45
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Talking to her in such a way should be a capital sin in this site!!
That explains a lot.
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:00 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThwanCondu
It's cute because

You're cute.

I just looked at you profile and realised who you are! I didn't like you before either!

You're so closed minded it's cute.
So now that you know she has breasts, you have to take the Macho Low Road, with "You're Cute"?

Those words would never have left your mouth before you realized she was female.

For someone that actually is quite intelligent, you sure have a serious inability to debate cleanly.

You started this thread, and asked for input.

It stands to reason, that some measure of the opinions posted would differ from yours.

So what is served by ridiculing everyone that doesn't share your opinion?

I've watched you since you joined, and this is pretty much your pattern everytime someone disagrees with you. See; The Satanist Teens Thread

Is it really that painful to accept that people will not always share your views and beliefs?

You could try being a little less Misogynistic, and a little more Tolerant.
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:17 PM   #47
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Haha, that's great. Not only did you ignore that I've argued properly with everyone but the person who decided to make a joke out of the subject, but you've also accused me of sexism with no genuine basis!

You've watched me since I joined and that's the best you could come up with? I'd seen her before and I recognised that she was pretty defensive of the bible and generally pretty pretentious, so I got defensive. That was a good one.

I would've called her cute if she was a boy too, kiddo! I only started then because she finally started to make an effort out of apparent irritation...and it was cute! That was a pretty sexist accusation you made right there. I wonder if you'd've made it if I was a girl! If you'd like evidence that I'm not sexist, please, look up everything on the internet that has anything to do with me. Haha, I love that so much.
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:20 PM   #48
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Why do you keep arguing?
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:27 PM   #49
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You're so sweet (not just because you're apparently female)!
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:31 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThwanCondu
Haha, that's great. Not only did you ignore that I've argued properly with everyone but the person who decided to make a joke out of the subject, but you've also accused me of sexism with no genuine basis!

You've watched me since I joined and that's the best you could come up with? I'd seen her before and I recognised that she was pretty defensive of the bible and generally pretty pretentious, so I got defensive. That was a good one.

I would've called her cute if she was a boy too, kiddo! I only started then because she finally started to make an effort out of apparent irritation...and it was cute! That was a pretty sexist accusation you made right there. I wonder if you'd've made it if I was a girl! If you'd like evidence that I'm not sexist, please, look up everything on the internet that has anything to do with me. Haha, I love that so much.
First of all, I am not your "Kiddo", I am 34.

And you didn't start calling her cute, until she corrected you on her Gender. Argue the point all you wish, that's still what happened.

And you do have a massive chip on your shoulder, that rears it's ugly head when anyone attempts to offer an opinion that doesn't flow well with your own. You even apologized for your repetitive harshness in the other thread.

All I am saying, you should make an attempt to debate without being ugly to the people you are attempting to open a discourse with here.

It's pretty simple.
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