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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 06-14-2012, 10:05 AM   #76
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Dude. You're being a dick like DAMN.

So you didn't support the war. Great. So that gives you permission to give people who went to the wars a hard time? So you don't have to give a shit because you didn't support it anyway? You're a fucking bastard.
WHOA! Chill out, battle! It's not HIS fault that we chose to join the military when we knew exactly what the fuck we were getting into. That 900 dollars a month was looking so fucking sweet compared to facing the consequences of our poor decisions in life, and now he's suffering for it. He shouldn't have to sit there and listen to us demand for handouts. He's a VICTIM and he doesn't need to take it ANYMORE.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:11 AM   #77
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And I would like to point out that not everyone simply chooses to join the military.

I didn't want to join when I went into the Navy. And I knew that shit wasn't for me, but I had to do it anyway. Why? Because joining the military is the least path of resistance when you live in a town devoid of jobs, lacking of support from family, and not being wealthy enough to own a car.

Some people didn't choose to join the military. It was just the only option they had.

And that's fucking telling when you think about it. And people wonder why I want to reach across a table when they say that doing without is a meaningful or workable solution to a problem. That's not a choice, that's fucking coercion.

Fuck. And you know what else? Maybe I'm off base. Maybe my experience was very different. But I can tell you that from what I saw, there was what appeared to be a disproportionate amount of people of color in the service. And you know what? That makes me think real good and hard about what's going on here at home that something like that would even happen.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:19 AM   #78
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It's not like I fucking ASKED to be saddled with an irrational fear of paper work.

That all boils back down to officials or authority though. Authoritarianism is fucking terrifying especially when you experience it with underhanded shit set up to dick you over.

I can't tell you HOW many times I got the vibe that my superiors were just thinking of ways of fucking me and the lower ranking people over EVERY DAY in one way or another. It was like being in a pit of fucking vipers.

But yet this asshole is going to sit there and fucking clam up and bitch about his tax dollars being used by the government and blaming people like Versus for the shit he's gone through? Fuck this. I'm reaching across the goddamned table.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:31 AM   #79
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Must be fucking nice to be able to walk away.

Battle: Rage is subsiding, and I'm going almost two days without sleep. I totally know what you're talking about, though, and I'll comment when I wake up.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:00 PM   #80
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So you didn't support the war. Great. So that gives you permission to give people who went to the wars a hard time? So you don't have to give a shit because you didn't support it anyway? You're a fucking bastard.
No, and I never said it did. I did say that because he went to war does not give him the excuse to be a dick to me, and that he can't just end all of his arguments with "I've been to war so I'm better than you".

Like I said, I respect(ed) the guy for what he did, but that wasn't good enough for him. In another thread he was arguing with me against gun ownership, then in this thread he contradicted himself by saying that he wanted a gun for conceal carry, then gave me this huge list of reasons why shouldn't own one.

All I've gotten from him so far is that nobody should be allowed to own guns, but he's going to own one anyway because we was in the military. I tried being respectful, and he threw it back in my face, so I retaliated.

I'll say again - I have the utmost respect for veterans because I understand they have done, and gone through, shit that would probably make me put a bullet in my head, but that that ends there and that if you want me to respect you as a person (not just as a veteran), you have to earn it. The fact that he is a veteran does not give him an "I'm right about everything because I SAW SOME SHIT" card. Life doesn't work that way.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #81
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WHOA! Chill out, battle! It's not HIS fault that we chose to join the military when we knew exactly what the fuck we were getting into. That 900 dollars a month was looking so fucking sweet compared to facing the consequences of our poor decisions in life, and now he's suffering for it. He shouldn't have to sit there and listen to us demand for handouts. He's a VICTIM and he doesn't need to take it ANYMORE.
Hey man, relax. I think you might be about to have a heart attack.

I never once claimed to be a victim. You did. All I said is that I don't have to shower you with praise and glory because of your choices that don't affect me in the slightest.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:11 PM   #82
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But yet this asshole is going to sit there and fucking clam up and bitch about his tax dollars being used by the government and blaming people like Versus for the shit he's gone through? Fuck this. I'm reaching across the goddamned table.
No. Fuck you for doing what you are trying to do.

I mentioned the tax dollars thing as a small aside, while 'thanking' Versus, and now you're trying to make it out like I've been bitching about it the entire time. You're trying to divert attention away from the whole argument by pointing out that one, tiny little thing.

No, I don't like the fact that my tax dollars are being used to fund this war. I'm not taking that back. I'm saying that is just a single piece of corn on the shit that is this argument, and you're blowing it out of the water.

Did you take debate classes from Bill O'Reilley or something?
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:30 PM   #83
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No. Fuck you for doing what you are trying to do.
What? See where you're coming from?

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I mentioned the tax dollars thing as a small aside, while 'thanking' Versus, and now you're trying to make it out like I've been bitching about it the entire time. You're trying to divert attention away from the whole argument by pointing out that one, tiny little thing.
When you bring shit like that up, you're talking about other things. This is the part where you started acting like you were a victim of these wars because you pay your taxes and then you actively try to misunderstand Versus, but then again, it'd be hard for you to actually get it since you haven't experienced war or even had to put on the uniform for that matter. The fact is; YOU DON'T KNOW what it means to be in the service and then when you hear complaints, you think it's an affront on you and then you brush it all off as "Well you didn't HAVE to join. No body made you join." while conveniently ignoring the fact that the way our societal structure is built, it's geared towards making the people of color and the poor fight in shit that you yourself admit you've never done or are incapable of doing so. That's not Versus projecting superiority over you, that's you feeling guilty for some shit.

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No, I don't like the fact that my tax dollars are being used to fund this war. I'm not taking that back. I'm saying that is just a single piece of corn on the shit that is this argument, and you're blowing it out of the water.
No I'm NOT blowing it out of the water. You're bitching about taxes as if you paying for this war is somehow a TRAVESTY in comparison to what Versus has been through. You're bitching about how tax money is spent where Versus most likely had very little actual choice in the matter of where his life has gone and then you get butthurt over veteran outrage. You don't even know what to respect.

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Did you take debate classes from Bill O'Reilley or something?
You're the one complaining about taxes and putting words in Versus' mouth. Sounds pretty Bill O'Reiley legit.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:40 PM   #84
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My whole point was that taxes isn't that big of a deal.

I've also admitted, several times actually, that I could never handle war and that I don't know what it's like out there.

You talk about poor and colored people being forced to join the military? I've lived my entire life in Elizabethton, Tennessee. Look it up. We have a dinky little population, and very few businesses. My family has no money, and I spent a shit load of my life in government houses because the best job my mom could find was mcdonalds. I managed to not join the military.

But I'm not going to get in to that with you. You are convinced that I am the bad guy, and that I owe you and Versus something. You claim I'm putting words in his mouth, but you're putting words in mine.

I'm not some rich Republican politician here, you dolt. I'm a 21 year old community college drop out who lives in a trailer in the deep south. Don't talk to me like I'm some priviledged kid who's parents left them a million dollar trust fund.

It was your choice to join the military. No matter how you spin it, that was your choice. Don't blame anybody for it.

Stop saying that I think it's a travesty that I have to pay taxes to fund your war. I think that the war shouldn't even be happening. When I said what I said, I was reminding Versus of the fact that I don't owe him shit but I'm giving it to him any way. You fucking people are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything. The thing is, nobody owes either groups anything at all.

By the way, before you even start, no, I don't think all veterans are pieces of shit, just the ones who come back who cause huge scenes screaming at coffee shop waitresses who fucked your order up because you FOUGHT FOR THEIR FREEDOM! The ones I despise are the ones who rub it in everybody's faces that they went to war, and expect super special treatment and rolling out the red fucking carpet every time they walk down the street.

Get over yourselves. The veterans who get my respect, who make me proud to know that they are representing us in other countries, are the ones who treat non-military people with a hint of fucking decency.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #85
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I tried to go back and delete that post, but apparently it's too late.

Here's the thing, we've completely lost track of the original argument, and now all we're doing is picking apart each little thing we are saying, and grasping at straws. I am as guilty in this as you are.

So I'm done. I'm not going to change my views, and you're adamant that I'm some super rich entitled teenager, and nothing of value is going to come to this.

I want you both to know I have no problem with you personally, but I think your point of view/way of thinking is seriously fucked up, but, you can say the same for me. C'est la vie.

So, cease fire?
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:54 PM   #86
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Yeah. Cease fire is easy for you. I shouldn't be saying this, but Versus isn't here and right now, I'm the only veteran online right now.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:56 PM   #87
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Yeah. Cease fire is easy for you. I shouldn't be saying this, but Versus isn't here and right now, I'm the only veteran online right now.
Whatever, man. I'm done with this thread either way.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:08 PM   #88
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My whole point was that taxes isn't that big of a deal.
So you brought it up, why?

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I've also admitted, several times actually, that I could never handle war and that I don't know what it's like out there.
So then why are you not getting what Versus said? He's not entirely pro-gun. Obviously because of his experiences in war, he now feels differently without a weapon. You shoot your gun for a hobby. Obviously he doesn't feel "right" without a gun now and you should realize why that's so fucked up. People bitching about gun rights don't even understand why their points don't measure up with a veteran. There's a difference between needing a gun because you've been through some psychological shit that apparently you admit would break you and someone wanting gun rights so they can shoot their guns at cans and act like they're big billy badass if some person comes on their property looking to poach. You argue from a point of safety and privilege. Versus makes points from the reality of actual violence, not imagined possible violence.

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You talk about poor and colored people being forced to join the military? I've lived my entire life in Elizabethton, Tennessee. Look it up. We have a dinky little population, and very few businesses. My family has no money, and I spent a shit load of my life in government houses because the best job my mom could find was mcdonalds. I managed to not join the military.
That's not the god damned point. SHOULD joining the military be the least path of resistance for the poor? Think about this shit, man. Stop apologizing for the way the world is and start thinking about what it means that it's actually TRUE that this is the quickest and easiest path(a bit ironic as it's obviously not easy) to getting a pay check.

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But I'm not going to get in to that with you. You are convinced that I am the bad guy, and that I owe you and Versus something. You claim I'm putting words in his mouth, but you're putting words in mine.
You're not a bad guy, you just don't know what you're talking about. And your willingness to ignore the social structure after people are trying to explain it to you is dickish. You're dismissing the voice of a veteran because you don't like what he's got to say. It bothers you.

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I'm not some rich Republican politician here, you dolt. I'm a 21 year old community college drop out who lives in a trailer in the deep south. Don't talk to me like I'm some priviledged kid who's parents left them a million dollar trust fund.
And there's a difference between a relatively safe trailer in the middle of no where and a fucking war where bombs are blowing up around you at all hours of the day. Dude. This isn't about to get into realms of race, but you're a poor white guy. You STILL have privileges that you're not even aware of. For example, people would rush to defend your honor for going out and trying to improve your lot but dropping out (cause you're a victim) but a black college dropout is usually judged as being lazy.

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It was your choice to join the military. No matter how you spin it, that was your choice. Don't blame anybody for it.
Having no fucking alternative is NOT a fucking choice. Coercion fucking exists you blind fuck.

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Stop saying that I think it's a travesty that I have to pay taxes to fund your war. I think that the war shouldn't even be happening. When I said what I said, I was reminding Versus of the fact that I don't owe him shit but I'm giving it to him any way. You fucking people are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything. The thing is, nobody owes either groups anything at all.
It's not my fucking war! You know what? Fuck you. Fuck you so fucking hard.

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By the way, before you even start, no, I don't think all veterans are pieces of shit, just the ones who come back who cause huge scenes screaming at coffee shop waitresses who fucked your order up because you FOUGHT FOR THEIR FREEDOM! The ones I despise are the ones who rub it in everybody's faces that they went to war, and expect super special treatment and rolling out the red fucking carpet every time they walk down the street.
Don't you tell us to shut the fuck up because it emotionally bothers you that you have to witness the damage to veterans because of war.

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Get over yourselves. The veterans who get my respect, who make me proud to know that they are representing us in other countries, are the ones who treat non-military people with a hint of fucking decency.
Fuck you. Seriously.
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Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #89
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Wow, KissMeDeadly is a real dipshit.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:07 PM   #90
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"Other than the fact that war veterans have to go to war, have seen and committed horrible acts I can't bear to think about, suffer PTSD, are worked 60+ hours for what amounts to minimum wage, and are left with little job security when they return to civilian life, you're EXACTLY like rich entitled kids!"


I think someone doesn't understand how logic works.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #91
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It'd be hilarious if it weren't so disappointing.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #92
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I feel a little out of my depth trying to add to this. But, KMD, its ok to admit that you don't know what something is like and leave it at that. I find myself having to do that a lot in conversations.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:42 PM   #93
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I feel a little out of my depth trying to add to this. But, KMD, its ok to admit that you don't know what something is like and leave it at that. I find myself having to do that a lot in conversations.
Yeah, I probably should have. Oh well.

Is it bad though that I'm kinda proud that two people have my quote as a signature now? I've always wanted that kind of recognition here. Feels good, man.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:44 PM   #94
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Yeah, I probably should have. Oh well.

Is it bad though that I'm kinda proud that two people have my quote as a signature now? I've always wanted that kind of recognition here. Feels good, man.
Holy shit. You really don't know when to quit, do you?
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:46 PM   #95
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Not really. What's going to happen now?
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:52 PM   #96
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Everyone learns how much of a dipshit you are.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:54 PM   #97
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I thought everybody knew that already?

Seriously, three years, guys. You're only figuring this out now?
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:55 PM   #98
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The only time I was ever actually offended was when somebody thought I was a sockpuppet for deadman.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:59 PM   #99
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I can see how people aren't ready to rule it out.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:13 PM   #100
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No, and I never said it did. I did say that because he went to war does not give him the excuse to be a dick to me, and that he can't just end all of his arguments with "I've been to war so I'm better than you".
No. You were a dick to me and I responded to it with anger. My anger is valid. And my argument for gun control is completely unrelated to my experience as a veteran. I used that experience to explain to you why I personally should not have a gun because you asked me - though, let's be honest; You already had me painted in your mind as a hypocrite once I said I wanted a gun and were jumping at the opportunity to call me out on it - but I explained that my personal reasons were just that. Personal. I didn't need to answer you so honestly. I've never once in my entire time on this forum, or privately with any of it's members, so thoroughly described my special snowflake anger/emotional issues, but I felt that you deserved an honest answer. Oh fuck, were you not worth it.

My argument for gun control is not based on those experiences. I don't know where the fuck you got the idea that I said, implied, whatever, that my argument was any more valid because I am a veteran. I suspect it's a prejudice in which veterans feel entitled to the world's oyster that you harbor.

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Like I said, I respect(ed) the guy for what he did, but that wasn't good enough for him.
No, you did not respect anything about my experience because you do not know anything about it and you still try to presume that you understand - this is extremely offensive because it dismisses my reality and replaces it with your narrative. My initial anger was because of your marginalization of my personal reasons to not own a gun, and then when Saya called you out on it, your expressions of respect were empty sentiments and token responses that are not welcome. An adult apology or a request for clarification would have ended that right then and there, but you continued to be disrespectful.

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In another thread he was arguing with me against gun ownership, then in this thread he contradicted himself by saying that he wanted a gun for conceal carry, then gave me this huge list of reasons why shouldn't own one.
I did contradict myself. I struggle with things I intellectually know is wrong but viscerally feel is right everyday. I even explained this. Every other member that's responded has understood it, or at least tried to the best of their ability to understand it. But the person who I was speaking to didn't even listen.

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All I've gotten from him so far is that nobody should be allowed to own guns, but he's going to own one anyway because we was in the military.
Probably because that's all you want to see. That's not what I said at all.

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I tried being respectful,
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You still didn't explain why you think it's ok for you to own a gun, but not for anybody else, other than you're a special snowflake with anger/emotional issues.
Yeah. Respectful. And then when Saya very plainly explained to you what I meant, the only thing you got from it was something you could argue with.

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and he threw it back in my face, so I retaliated.
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And die in a fucking fire. I don't want your god damn fake ass fucking sympathy. You marginalized my frustration and rage when you don't even fucking know what it is or what the fuck you're supposed to feel sorry for.
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Which seems more mature, to you?

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I'll say again - I have the utmost respect for veterans because I understand they have done, and gone through, shit that would probably make me put a bullet in my head, but that that ends there and that if you want me to respect you as a person (not just as a veteran), you have to earn it. The fact that he is a veteran does not give him an "I'm right about everything because I SAW SOME SHIT" card. Life doesn't work that way.
You obviously don't have any respect for veterans. In that statement alone you:

1) Asserted that when I humanly described my experience to explain why I personally do something, I was really just trying to hold you emotionally hostage to win an argument.

2) Gave empty lip service to veterans and then immediately asserted that experiencing war is some kind of power and privilege instead of recognizing that it is debilitating for millions of people.

3) Marginalized outrage toward societal injustice by summing it up as "I SAW SOME SHIT."

Yeah. You're a peach.

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Hey man, relax. I think you might be about to have a heart attack.
No.

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I never once claimed to be a victim.
Yes, you did. I'll bold every instance of it for you.
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Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


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