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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 11-28-2007, 04:11 AM   #26
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I meant America in general.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:16 AM   #27
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I'm going to agree with the person above me and also say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by badteccy
Immediate withdrawl of the troops would be the worst thing we could do at this point. We are already in far to deep.
They told us that in Vietnam, that when we left it's going to be chaos, and all the other countries in the area would fall to the 'evil Communist'.

They were wrong. We left, IN DEFEAT and now, Vietnam is a prosper nation state and far more capitalistic that most nations in the area. And our 68,000 dead accomplished nothing.

They were wrong then, why should we believe them now?
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:26 AM   #28
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I think obama is to young. He is way to inexperienced to be the president. I vote Gravel thus far.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:42 AM   #29
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I don't know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach Twin
Who do you like? I'm fond of Obama.
I am a little worried that he could be influenced and or persuaded if he is ever in office. And I mean by people of his background. I don't want to seem prude but in anyones background it can happen.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:56 AM   #30
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I'm hoping to get definitive answers at the debates, but so far my support is swinging between Hilary and Ron Paul
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon!
I'm hoping to get definitive answers at the debates, but so far my support is swinging between Hilary and Ron Paul
I would dare to say that is a far swing between the upper and lower ends of the political map.

Socialist Authoritarian
vs.
Capitalist Libertarian

But hey, you're thinking about the choice rather than just pulling the R or D lever. Kudos to you for that!
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:58 PM   #32
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I say Henry Rollins should run for president! I'd vote multiple times under different names and disguises!
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #33
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Al Jourgenson(sp?) FOR PRESIDENT! That'd fuck up our nation almost as much as Henry Rollins would, but would still be sooo sweet. I'm going to say Hillary Clinton, because she knows her way around the White House, and already has international political contacts. She's already seen firsthand how the game of politics is played from both a congressional and a presidential point of view. She hasn't fallen to nearly as many corporate buyouts as SOME of her male counterparts, and has made initial attempts at socialized medicine (hot-button issue after Sicko...). The media is kind of playing her though... I think the corporations who have bought out some of the candidates who have media control have modified the public view slightly so that their candidates look good. Just answering teh question, and giving basic rationale for it.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badteccy
Immediate withdrawl of the troops would be the worst thing we could do at this point. We are already in far to deep.
Yeah, as soon as we pulled out, the Iraqis would shoot us with those weapons of mass destruction like they were planning to do all along.

No seriously, I don't understand the "when one is in too deep, one is wise to dig oneself deeper" mentality which seems evident in that statement, badteccy.
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:36 AM   #35
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Perhaps badteccy meant that to it would be much wiser to make sure some of the infrastructure has been repaired before pulling out, because immediate total withdrawal would leave Iraq without resources and still suffering several international trade embargoes which would prevent it from effecting any meaningful self-repair. This is bad for the USA in that it gives a very, very poor international image (does even more damage than has already been done to the USA's image, anyway). It would also be difficult to extract troops from some areas where they are acting as genuine law enforcement instead of aggressive occupation.
I dunno, I'm not vouching for badteccy's response- just offering my take on it.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delkaetre
Perhaps badteccy meant that to it would be much wiser to make sure some of the infrastructure has been repaired before pulling out, because immediate total withdrawal would leave Iraq without resources and still suffering several international trade embargoes which would prevent it from effecting any meaningful self-repair. This is bad for the USA in that it gives a very, very poor international image (does even more damage than has already been done to the USA's image, anyway). It would also be difficult to extract troops from some areas where they are acting as genuine law enforcement instead of aggressive occupation.
I dunno, I'm not vouching for badteccy's response- just offering my take on it.
Oh, yeah. Staying in Iraq might be a good idea if the US occupation of the country suddenly became productive, but if that happened we might have some bigger problems on our hands, what with all the pigs flying and hell freezing over.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:43 PM   #37
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We need a little humor here!

*plays "Fuck the Middle East" by Stormtroopers Of Death*
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:43 AM   #38
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I've been researching a little more about Ron Paul. He seems like a cool guy. It would be fun to see him win just to see the conservative label become a little more liberal (he does claim, after all, to be a conservative, while his laissez faire policies are truly liberal in the real sense of the word)

There are some very big issues I don't like about his, though:
He places businesses before the environment, which is not good for my city.
He voted for the building of a fence in the Mexican-American border, not thinking of the repercussions of arbitrarily splitting in half an ecosystem.
He is not a fan of federal regulation on education, which means that he would get rid of public schools, but hey, he's also against universal healthcare, so at least there's consistency, not like those bullshit politicians that slander universal healthcare saying it would be a socialist institution and yet keep talking about public schools and education and how important they are for the future of our children.
He is very pro-life

Many of his policies are just open doors for the elite to feed on the mass, but yet he's very determined in not being swayed by large corporations. Bottom line is that he would be a good president, but if his policies are implemented and the next president is weak or idiotic, or both, it will all plummet.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:48 AM   #39
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Dennis Kucinich is AWESOME! He is absolutely the only candidate I agree with 100%, and he is true to his beliefs (never wavers and isn't wishy-washy). I honestly wish people would pay more attention to him, because he could turn this country around. I would LOVE for him to be President, but the mainstream media practically ignores him.

Just read this http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

^None of the other candidates have voting records that so closely align to what they SAY they believe as he does.

P.S. If you say you're not going to vote for him JUST because you think he won't get enough votes - you are adding to the problem!
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Old 12-10-2007, 08:50 AM   #40
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I like the way someone set it up above. Ron Paul if you're a little toward that end of the spectrum; Kucinich if you're toward the other. These are the only two candidates I have seen who appear to be even vaguely serious.

Naturally, neither of them are running too hot in the polls.

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Old 12-10-2007, 11:20 AM   #41
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Actually Ron Paul has quite a following, and he always owns the republican conferences.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:24 PM   #42
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Yeah, I meet people almost everyday who see my Ron Paul buttons/stickers and tell me how much they support him.

The polls are set-up I'm convinced.

Besides, most only count that party's voters who have been registered with the party and voted at least twice. That rules out most people under 26, all the independants, and those who have switched parties.


BTW, who the hell is this theocratic Huckabee whose raised no money hardly and is suddenly oh-so-popular with the mainstream media? ^_-
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:59 PM   #43
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hmm. Obama looks like a winner to me. i hope he wins.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:12 PM   #44
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I hope he doesn't.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:56 AM   #45
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I sure as hell don't want Obama to win either (and I don't think he will), nor any Republicans. Most of the other Dems I think *meh* they've got some good stances, and other things I don't agree with.

Unfortunately the ONLY person (ahem... I mentioned him above) I think would make a GREAT President is the one who is probably least likely to win.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:06 PM   #46
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWWBwf2wHE
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:18 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opteron_Man
hmm. Obama looks like a winner to me. i hope he wins.
Oh great -.-
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:27 PM   #48
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I forgot who said this, but I love this quote:

"We've set it up so that nobody with a useful job or an interesting avocation will run for office." How very true.

I don't know ANYONE who likes Hilary. My Republican friends consider her too Democratic and my Dem friends consider her too Republican. It would almost be poetic justice to see the Dems pick her and have her lose the election, just so they understand HOW EFFING USELESS the polls are!

The way I've heard it broken down, out of the 45% or so of the people who vote, 25% always vote Republican -- even if, say, Donald Duck were the candidate. Another 25% for Democrats, ditto the Donald Duck analogy. Out of the people who remain, 30% are split between the smaller parties. The critical vote goes to the moderates -- some 20% of the total -- who will vote for the person they see as the best possible candidate. The only way a third party candidate could win is if they swept ALL the moderates, and took all of their own party plus most of the other third-party voters. And even then, that's the popular vote. I have no idea what would happen when that situation went to the Electoral College.

By the way, does anyone else find it amusin how you can play Eeny-meeny-miney-mo with the Rep candidates and come up with the same thing? They're all kind of....interchangeable.

I'm an independent, and I'm still waiting to hear more info on some actual policy, if you know what I mean. Kucinich and Paul are the only ones I find remotely interesting so far.

Maybe we could revamp the system and put the two most INTERESTING candidates in a mud ring, and have them wrestle! Charge for it on Pay-per-view! Way more fun than our current voting mess and honestly, about as accurate of a method to pick a President.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:56 PM   #49
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Why can't Chris Rock, Robin Williams, or Warren Beatty run for president? They won in the movies! How close would THAT election be, eh? Rock v Williams v Beatty 2012!!!

Or better yet, Chris Rock v Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson v Rocky Balboa!!!!
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:19 PM   #50
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It'd be a throwaway vote, but I wish Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jesse "The Body" Ventura were running.
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