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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 03-04-2005, 09:00 AM   #1
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Sinn Fein's Approval Rating Way Down

Murder cast long shadow over Sinn Fein party conference

"An opinion poll in the Irish Times newspaper found that support for Sinn Fein has fallen by a quarter since last October to nine percent, and that Adams' approval rating was down to 30 percent -- its lowest since his performance was first measured three years ago...

reland's justice minister Michael McDowell said Friday the gathering was an opportunity for the party to signal the demise of the IRA.

"With the glare of publicity on them a lot of people will be looking to see whether it is the end for the IRA, whether it is the end to armed violence in our society," McDowell said.

"It is a good opportunity for those who are in the Provisional movement to do what the government asked them to do and that is to reflect on whether they can end paramilitarism, criminality, the regime of fear, the thuggery that has gone on so long.

"This is an opportunity for them to face up to that," he told RTE radio.
"


My goodness, that's another surprise! You mean to tell me people don't approve of the IRA and Sinn Fein robbing banks and killing Catholics? That it's not just politicians who've had it with their shit? Looks like a bleak road ahead for these boys. :lol:
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:35 AM   #2
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Your poll here is from the ROI, not NI, where the support poll has increased.

Once again, different country - different electorate, and different politics.

Slán
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:53 AM   #3
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I had a hard time finding any legitamate sites or sources that said approval ratings for either had increased recently. Maybe you can help me out with a link.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:21 AM   #4
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Old 03-07-2005, 09:24 AM   #5
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Binkie - I'll have one for ye tomorrow.

EE - You actually included a post from the Ulters PRodestants Movement For Justice - a known terrorist organisaion renoun for burning down churches in NI. Your artucally going to take cues from a group that burns churches because they are of a different sect?

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Old 03-07-2005, 04:22 PM   #6
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tit for tat... tit for tat... they're all throwing sand in the sandbox

put on your hoods... pick up your guns... they're all throwing sand in the sandbox...

you're a terrorist.
no, you are.
no, you are.
no, you are.
no, you are...
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Old 03-08-2005, 09:05 AM   #7
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Actually the diffence is SF is a politican party. People always say they have ties to the IRA, and they do, but bottom line is a majority of the people here vote for them, a larger majority percentagewise than has ever voted for gw bush, so if they are terrorists, then the people here must love terrorists.

Look at this page for more info on the pIRA to being with (listed under IRA). Also notice the different groups NOT associated with SF, which many in the states lump together.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...03_31759pf.htm

That is the US State Dept. website. Things to note:

The IRA itself has several vhundred thousand suporters in Ireland and Northern Ireland. If you look at it percentagewise, being a country of 4 million, Ireland has more IRA members and supporters (supporters being those who hide weapons and help out any way they cant without having to actually shoot anyone) than the united states has afro-americans.

So trying to marginalise these people and their beliefs is like trying to marginalise all blacks in the us. Can't be done - that many people with beliefs, who are willing to stand up fight and die for their beliefs, means they have to be dealt with politically. Thatcher tried to kill all members (as I mentioned in a previous post), but for every one she killed, a dozen took their place, swelling the ranks to sizes the original founders of 1916 could have only dreamed of.

Also check out this - the official northern police website with more information on the groups.

http://usite.army.mod.uk/HQNI/Terror...%20Ireland.htm

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Old 03-08-2005, 02:54 PM   #8
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yeah. that's some political party, all right.
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:51 AM   #9
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Binkie - A link to the most recent elections. I'll have new stats as soon as this years finish.

http://www.ifes.org/eguide/resultsum/NIreland_par03.htm

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...bly_electi.htm

EE - once again IRA is not Sinn Fein. Tis an IRA poster (and a good one at that, I have it on my wall at home).

But remember Sinn Fein is a political party, who people vote for, and look at the stats on those link you will see MANY vote for. Also note they raise 80% off all funds in the united states.

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Old 03-10-2005, 10:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Also note they raise 80% off all funds in the united states.

Slán

A good portion of al qaeda's funding comes from people in the U.S. as well. Doesn't negate the fact that they are a bunch of cold-blooded terrorists.

And Sinn Fein trying to distance itself from the IRA, would be akin to your left nut trying to distance itself from your right nut.

Right down the block from friggin impossible.

Valiant effort though..

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Old 03-10-2005, 10:11 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
And Sinn Fein trying to distance itself from the IRA, would be akin to your left nut trying to distance itself from your right nut.
That is one of the best analogies I've ever heard!

:mrgreen:
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Old 03-10-2005, 01:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Also note they raise 80% off all funds in the united states.

Slán

A good portion of al qaeda's funding comes from people in the U.S. as well. Doesn't negate the fact that they are a bunch of cold-blooded terrorists.

Thant's only because we're so rich, ignorant and close minded that we'll buy anything

"Would you like to buy some IRA... err... I mean girl scout cookies?"

"Say, are those chocolate chip?"

"Yes sir. Baked in the blood of Protistants even."

"Ooooh goodie! I love Chocolate chips! I'll take three boxes."
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:41 PM   #13
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Sternn,
you're showing me election results from 2003. I'm sure polls were done that showed approval ratings that reflected those results back in 2003 too, but I'm looking for a poll of some sort done in Northern Ireland that reflects voters' approval ratings of Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams as of recently (i.e. after this whole deal with the McCarthys and the bank heist publicity).
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:36 AM   #14
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Hows this?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=618621



What Ulster thinks now

11 March 2005

From the Northern Bank raid to the murder of Robert McCartney, the political process in Northern Ireland has been rocked by a series of crises. An exclusive Belfast Telegraph/BBC Newsnight poll reveals what people here really think

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Old 03-15-2005, 08:49 AM   #15
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Sisters dismiss Sinn Fein warning
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 Posted: 9:08 AM EST (1408 GMT)

BELFAST, Northern Ireland -- The sisters of a man killed by the IRA have shrugged off a warning by a Sinn Fein leader to stay out of party politics in Northern Ireland.

The comments from Sinn Fein deputy leader Martin McGuinness came as Robert McCartney's five sisters prepared for an unprecedented public welcome in Washington, including a meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush.*

The sisters' campaign to bring their brother's killers to justice has focused attention on the outlawed IRA's continued grip on hard-line Catholic parts of Belfast, where informing police about Irish Republican Army activities can mean a death sentence.

In Sinn Fein's first publicly critical comments of the family, McGuinness told The Associated Press: "The McCartneys need to be very careful. To step over that line, which is a very important line, into the world of party-political politics can do a huge disservice to their campaign."

He said if they continued to make direct challenges to Sinn Fein, which is the largest Catholic-backed party in Northern Ireland, they would "dismay and disillusion an awful lot of people, tens of thousands of people who support them in their just demands."

On Tuesday, the McCartney sisters shrugged off the suggestion their campaign was being manipulated for political ends.

"We are women who can speak for ourselves and we know that lots of people want to use us, including people who profess to be friends," Paula McCartney told Reuters from London's Heathrow Airport before she and her sisters headed to Washington.

"We are not in party politics anyway, because if we do stand we will be standing as independents."

Asked if she saw McGuinness's comments as a threat, she said: "I don't know what his worry is. I think he should be more concerned with his party and that the sooner the better the murderers of Robert are caught and this issue resolved."

Another of the sisters, Catherine McCartney, said the family plans to give Bush a dossier on the killing.

"Basically it details everything that has happened since January 30, the events leading to Robert's murder, the people involved and events since," she told UK's Press Association as the family left Dublin Tuesday.

"We are very focused on what we are trying to achieve. We want justice for our brother."

On Monday, Catherine McCartney accused Sinn Fein of continually trying to conceal and downplay its members' role in the attack.

"I find it hard to believe that we've been campaigning for six weeks and still not a single person has been charged with Robert's murder," she told AP.

Candidates at the bar

The IRA-linked Sinn Fein, which has suspended seven members linked to McCartney's death in January but has identified none of them, admitted that a Sinn Fein candidate for May's election to Belfast City Council was in the bar at the time of the killing.

The candidate, 23-year-old Deirdre Hargey, issued a statement Monday. "I did not witness the fracas in the bar, or the incident outside the bar," she said.

On Saturday, Sinn Fein said a candidate in Northern Ireland's 2003 legislative elections, Cora Groogan, 23, was also in the bar. Groogan issued a statement claiming she heard "commotion" but saw nothing.

The IRA has admitted that two of its members slashed McCartney's neck and stomach after he intervened in a dispute at the pub January 30. The 33-year-old man died hours later.

Paula McCartney stressed that the family included longtime supporters of Sinn Fein and the IRA and did not have an anti-Sinn Fein agenda.

"Our family did not hatch a plan to harm Sinn Fein," she said. "We're a republican family."

All five McCartney sisters and their brother's fiancee are scheduled to meet Bush at the traditional St. Patrick's Day reception at the White House on Thursday.

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams, who has been part of the White House celebration for years, has been barred from official U.S. government functions this year.][color=#40ffff*[/color]

Adams blasts 'rogue' republicans

On Monday Adams condemned the killing of McCartney and blasted "rogue" members of the Irish Republican Army blamed for the man's death.

McCartney's death has sparked widespread criticism and calls from both sides of the Atlantic for the IRA to disband.

Adams said the perpetrators have tarnished the Irish republican movement and should be "man enough" to turn themselves in.

"The people -- apart from Robert McCartney's immediate family -- who've been most angry, frustrated by this man's death, are people like myself," Adams told the Council on Foreign Relations on Monday.

"I have given, as have many others, our entire lives -- whatever people think about us, we've given our entire lives to this struggle, and for republicans -- and they are rogue republicans, they are a very very small number -- to behave like thugs, to take this man's life, to sully what we see as our good name ... I can tell you that hundreds of thousands of Irish republicans feel exactly the same as I do."

Adams is in the United States this week in an attempt to soften the blow caused by the killing and a $50 million bank robbery in December that British authorities blame on IRA members.

He was not invited to meet Bush or Irish-American U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy -- with whom he has celebrated St. Patrick's Day since the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement.]*

Adams said he was disappointed by the public snub but did not feel it indicated U.S. support for the Northern Ireland peace process was waning.

He said he will meet this week with Mitchell Reiss, Bush's special envoy for Northern Ireland.

Both Reiss and New York Republican Representative Peter King -- one of Sinn Fein's top supporters in the U.S. Congress -- have called on the IRA to disband.

King said the IRA had made a series of poor decisions that had sparked anger in Irish-American circles, and that Americans were finding it "hard to see what the justification is for the continued existence of the IRA."

During their trip to the United States, McCartney's sisters may bump into Adams at some social functions.

Adams met the McCartneys last month and reassured them he would press for witnesses to come forward, but Catherine McCartney said she probably would not shake his hand.

"He seemed genuine when he met us, when we thought the problem was just a matter of IRA intimidation," she said. "Now we know better. It's clear that Sinn Fein is heavily into the cover-up."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...eys/index.html






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Old 03-16-2005, 12:38 PM   #16
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Senators condemn Northern Ireland killing

Meeting with man's family, Kennedy urges IRA disbandment
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 Posted: 2:21 PM EST (1921 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A bipartisan group of U.S. senators condemned the killing of a Northern Ireland man after meeting Wednesday with his sisters and fiancee.

The Bush administration invited the women to Washington to discuss the January 30 stabbing death of Robert McCartney, 33, a Roman Catholic forklift operator, outside a Belfast bar. Members of the Irish Republican Army are suspected in the slaying.

The IRA booted three of its members over the killing and conducted an investigation, offering to shoot those it had found responsible. That offer sparked outrage across the globe, and McCartney's sisters rejected it, saying they wanted those responsible brought to justice.

"We came here to tell our story," Catherine McCartney said Wednesday. "And we knew that before we came we would have the support of the senators. We hope this does produce results on the ground for this family."

She said the family "cannot rebuild our lives until this is resolved."

Sens. Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts; John McCain, R-Arizona; Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York; and Christopher Dodd, D-Connecticut, spoke to reporters after the meeting.

"We indicated to each and all of them that we stand with them; we want to learn more from them," Kennedy said. "Today isn't just one meeting but is going to be a continuum, until we are able to see justice and those who were a part of this cruel and murderous act are brought to justice."

Sinn Fein, a political party linked to the IRA, also suspended seven members over the killing.

Kennedy said he believes Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams "wants to see the IRA disbanded" for the good of the stalled Northern Ireland peace process.

"There is a time to hold 'em and a time to fold 'em," the senator said. "And we're overdue in terms of the disbandment of the IRA."

Barring this breakup, he said, Sinn Fein must step away from the militant republican group.

"A democratic party, a part of a democratic West, does not, should not and cannot have private armies and cannot be involved in criminality and violence," Kennedy said, "and this is, I think as the sisters have pointed out, the golden opportunity for them to indicate once and for all and finally that they are going to separate themselves from that type of support."

McCartney said she and her sisters agreed on that point.

"We don't believe that peace and violence can co-exist in Ireland," she said.

To date, no one has come forward with evidence in the slaying, prompting some people in Northern Ireland to suspect the IRA intimidated witnesses into keeping quiet.




McCartney's five sisters and fiancee are scheduled to visit the White House on Thursday for St. Patrick's Day.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, another sister, Paula McCartney, said she would urge President Bush to keep her brother's killing high on his agenda -- because the peace process in Northern Ireland cannot progress until the case is resolved.

"We know that the IRA did not sanction Robert's murder," she said. "But it cannot be denied that members of the IRA carried Robert's murder out. We believe then that the IRA is responsible for bringing Robert's murderers to justice."


Public snub for Adams in U.S.

Adams also is visiting the United States this week in an attempt to soften the damage to Sinn Fein's reputation caused by the killing and a $50 million bank robbery in December that British authorities blame on IRA members.

Adams is a member of the suspended Northern Ireland Assembly, the parliament created under the Good Friday Peace Accords in 1998. In February, the Irish government identified Adams as an IRA commander, an accusation that he has long denied.

Adams was not invited to meet Bush or Kennedy. The senator often has seen the Sinn Fein leader during previous St. Patrick's Day visits to the United States.

Kennedy said he does not believe Adams was involved in protecting the identity of McCartney's killers. But he called on Adams and Sinn Fein to "free themselves from the albatross of the IRA."

Adams said the public snub disappointed him but that he didn't feel it indicated U.S. support for the Northern Ireland peace process was waning.


Sinn Fein has said that two of its election candidates were in the bar at the time of the killing, but both said they didn't see anything, according to The Associated Press.








http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...eys/index.html
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Old 03-16-2005, 12:56 PM   #17
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Hugh Grant got oWn3d!!111eleventy
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:41 AM   #18
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And the first set of election results are in...

Sinn Fein took EVERY seat in EVERY election that came up in Meath, and Donegal! For the first time, they now are on the Gaeltacht authority!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/w...bBP-2fa91M.asp

And coming up this week, on May 5th, they are posed to be the biggest party in both Ireland and N. Ireland...

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/9414

Stay tuned for election results. Goes to show you shouldn't believe all the 'hype' on the news. The people have spoken, screw what the mass media tries to have you believe!

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Old 05-02-2005, 07:47 AM   #19
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:17 PM   #20
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It's a good thing Adams listened to Bush when the US President told him to cut the shit and slammed the door on his ass when Patty's Day rolled around. If Adams hadn't said "uncle" and relayed the message when Blair and Bush were breathing down his neck, boy, who knows what would have happened come election time.

Hell, if Adams buckles that easy, that'll work if he's around again. Great way for the US to easily influence Northern Ireland's politics through the middle men.
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Old 05-07-2005, 07:20 AM   #21
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http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=636347

The election results say it all - SF taking not only all their old seats, but new seats as well, making it the biggest nationalist party for the first time ever.

So, like I said before, your misinofrmaiton which you posted when you started this thread turns out to be once again 100% wrong.

SF took the election, guess all that 'public outrage' wasn't shown at the polls...

And then you are trying to tell me SF won because of george bush? How is that? Bush kept them from visiting the whitehouse, so SF won the elections? Wow, we should be snubbed by bush more often. In fact, some of the news shows here say thats what helped push the votes in FOR SF, since people here loath bush so much.

Once again, SF prevails, and I find it hard to see a win for bush in there anywhere.

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Old 05-07-2005, 07:30 AM   #22
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Right, it was dead wrong. I totally doctored those polls on an Irish website. :roll:

And yes, Bush did keep them from the White House and turned up the pressure on Adam's to start obeying. Adams, of crouse, crumbled under the word of Bush and Blair and turned the focus of reform back onto the IRA. Same shit that happens in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Bush says, that country does. You live in a puppet nation, Sternn. One that gets it's strings pulled by the Bush administration, and your party saved alot of face because of that. You should be thankful of Mr. Bush.
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"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
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Old 05-07-2005, 09:13 AM   #23
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I'm not saying that I know *anything* about this thread- or that I keep up on Irish politics. I'm really sorry about that- I try to, but being a full-time student, feeding my thirst for knowledge about Russia and Chechnya and the U.S. Government, as well as getting wicked drunk on the weekends, I just don't have time.

But I did have time to do a little bit of research on this:
Gerry Adams's approval rating is at 43%, as of Saturday.
President Bush's approcal rating is at 44%.

*However*, it is interesting to note that each of these websites also list the *dis*approval ratings of these figures:
Gerry Adams's DIS approval rating is only 38% where Bush's disapproval rating is 50%.


I think it's kind of stupid to argue numbers, but if you're going to do it, make sure you look at *your* guy's numbers, too..
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie
Right, it was dead wrong. I totally doctored those polls on an Irish website. :roll:

And yes, Bush did keep them from the White House and turned up the pressure on Adam's to start obeying. Adams, of crouse, crumbled under the word of Bush and Blair and turned the focus of reform back onto the IRA. Same shit that happens in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Bush says, that country does. You live in a puppet nation, Sternn. One that gets it's strings pulled by the Bush administration, and your party saved alot of face because of that. You should be thankful of Mr. Bush.
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Old 05-07-2005, 04:16 PM   #25
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Here's how much I care about the current Bush approval rating:


...


Elections are over - approval rating doesn't really matter now, especially since he's a lame duck President. Approval rating could be 99% in disfavor of him, and it wouldn't change much about the future.
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