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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 08-13-2011, 01:27 AM   #1
CptSternn
 
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Fear The Police?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...r-2847544.html

Quote:
YOUNG thugs and gang members should be made to "fear" the police and the prospect of serious punishment for acts like looting, David Cameron's new crime adviser has claimed.

In a newspaper interview, Bill Bratton, the former New York police chief, said that many young people, especially gang members, had been "emboldened" by over-cautious policing tactics and lenient sentencing policies.

Losing public confidence in its ability to provide security -- through force if necessary -- creates "incredible difficulty" for a police force, Mr Bratton said.

Mr Cameron is an admirer of Mr Bratton's approach to policing and has asked the American to advise him on gangs and urban violence in the wake of this week's riots in English cities.

Those riots have sparked criticism of British police forces for their initial response. Mr Cameron has said the police initially used the wrong tactics and failed to treat rioting and looting as proper crimes.

Gang

Speaking in New York, Mr Bratton said that police forces should be more assertive in their dealings with offenders, leaving no doubt that crime will always meet a firm response.

"In my personal experience, these days unfortunately the younger criminal element -- many in the gang community in particular -- don't fear the police and have been emboldened to challenge the police and effectively take them on," he said.

More than 1,600 people have now been arrested in connection with this week's events, and 796 have been charged.

In other developments yesterday:

?A serving British army soldier appeared in court in Manchester accused of taking part in riots in the city on Tuesday.

?The mother of a 12-year-old boy convicted of looting wine from a Manchester shop faced eviction from her council house after the local authority moved to end her tenancy agreement.

?Mr Cameron faced an angry backlash from police officers of all ranks over political criticism of their tactics, forcing the prime minister to back down.

?Some critics believe that British forces have been cowed into timidity by threats of legal action and a lack of political support for robust policing.

Mr Bratton said that officers should leave no doubt that they were ready and willing to use force when required.

"What needs to be understood is that police are empowered to do certain things -- to stop, to talk, to frisk on certain occasions, to arrest if necessary, to use force," he said.

In particular, he said, gangs must "understand that provocation will be met with appropriate response".

Security

He added: "It is absolutely critical that we are seen capable of providing security."

To be effective, a police should have "a lot of arrows in the quiver," he said, advocating a doctrine of "escalating force" where weapons including rubber bullets, tasers, pepper spray and water cannons were all available to commanders.

Mr Bratton's comments may fuel the debate about how British forces responded to the riots, a debate that has angered some police chiefs.

Mr Bratton insisted he was not criticising the Metropolitan Police or other British forces, saying he made a point of "not critiquing other agencies" until he had intimate details of how they worked.

The American also backed Mr Cameron's pledge to hold the parents of young criminals responsible for their children's actions.

"There are also actions you can take against parents. The principal responsibility for controlling children is not the police or government. Parents bear the ultimate responsibility," he said.

However, he warned, some parents were "so disengaged that they're of no value".
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:31 AM   #2
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Um..just wow.

The New York cop advising the UK post riot has some pretty fecked ideas if you ask me.

First off his whole idea of making young people FEAR THE POLICE. Seriously? Is that what a modern nation needs today is a police force which is feared by society?

Then he goes on to say parents should be punished for their childs actions. Really?

And then make the nice comment that some parents 'are of no value'. Yes, parents don't care so thats why the government needs to punish them and deploy a militarised police gestapo force which strikes fear into the people.

It amazes me he would say this stuff at all, much less in front of cameras.

What does it say about the police in America, especially those under his former command in NYC?
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:13 AM   #3
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What's laughable about this?

Crime, as I understand it, is usually contextual. There was once this article I read about NYC's crime and why it was on the rise and the shit they did to lessen the severity of their crime rates.

Here's the delicious part:

They cleaned up the subways removing graffiti, installing more lights, kept it clean, and busted and punished light crimes. They cleaned up the streets. Instead if walking through trashed up graffiti ridden alley ways, you now walked through places that resembled things that looked more like neighborhoods.

What causes a lot of crime? That article said it had a LOT to do with where you lived, the context of why you did what you did, and the wealth disparity of an area. Basically, if you live in a hood that looks like a warzone or looks like a shanty town, then exactly who's going to give a damn if a few more windows are broken? If someone is mugged in that area? If someone is killed or if someone skips out on their public transport fare?

And it makes a lot of sense. The more important something looks, the less inclined people generally feel for causing trivial crime which also lessens the severity of serious crime.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:12 AM   #4
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What you posted sounds reasonable, but that is not what they are advocating. They are saying they plan on introducing draconian measures in efforts to make the public fear the police. Cleaning up estates doesn't seem to be on their agenda.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:30 AM   #5
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You say draconian measures as if that is a bad thing.

*snickers*
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:23 AM   #6
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The UK are using this time to enact legislation attacking the poor and implementing measures on par with those America did when it put in place the patriot act.

They want to be able to monitor all phones and electronic communication without warrants, want the power to invade homes, and most disturbing is the power to cut off families from government funding if their child gets into trouble.

Can you imagine this? Kicking a family out of their home that the government has provided and cutting off social welfare funding for them because their child got arrested?

Two problems with this.

First off, where exactly do you think they will go and what exactly do you think they will do? People who are abandoned by society in this manner will inevitable be involved in even more serious crime, not to mention their friends, families, and associates might be somewhat apprehensive, but will definitely resent the government and their communities even more.

Lets also not gloss over the fact that legislation is directed at the poorest group in society, those who are without jobs and dependent on the government. The rich have nothing to fear, they are enacting legislation that will target those who have found themselves out of work or in other harsh financial times. The rich kids will still be able to get away with murder.
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