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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 08-12-2011, 03:10 PM   #26
AshleyO
 
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Nah. Just bitter.
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:48 AM   #27
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I posted a response in the London Riot thread but the theme is very similar to our thread here.

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...low economic rank — being poorer than others in the same geographic region — rather than actual poverty, which is defined as not being able to afford things you need, elicits misery.
It's exactly what many said above. It's not being poor per-se, it's being poorer than those who are around you in society which causes strife and turmoil.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:48 AM   #28
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I posted a response in the London Riot thread but the theme is very similar to our thread here.



It's exactly what many said above. It's not being poor per-se, it's being poorer than those who are around you in society which causes strife and turmoil.
This is true up to the point where opportunistic thugs and hooligans turn a revolt into looting and rioting from people who are not causing their problems. If they want to be more effective why didn't they march on Parliment? Or take down one of the government buildings?
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:33 PM   #29
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Because they're not an enclave of Trotskyists trying to create a new society.
They're people. Angry people.
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:37 PM   #30
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Anger isn't a justification for senseless violence against innocent people.
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:31 PM   #31
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Because they're not an enclave of Trotskyists trying to create a new society.
They're people. Angry people.
Sorry, hun. I'm not trying to bait you into a pointless argument. I know that people are pissed and they have every right to be. I'm just tired of all the pointless aggression and the people who are only in it to hurt others, just to do it. I'm not saying they shouldn't be pissed, they just shouldn't be taking it out on other people in their own communites or communities that are in the same boat.

Fuck, if someone told me that I'd no longer be able to go to school because I'm one of those suck-ass poor people and the government is doing away with grants that help people like me get a better education and a life where we can support ourselves, damn straight I'd be pissed. I don't think I would vandalize or loot other people's property, though.
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:39 PM   #32
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My two cents (if it's worth even that) is too many people aren't willing to fight for what they want or need. Those that do fight seem to target the wrong people with their anger and wonder why nothing changed. Plus, there's the whole going with the crowd thing.

People are smart; mobs are stupid.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:17 AM   #33
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If you look at any political uprising in the history of the world, or any revolution, even the American revolution, you will find many instances of riots.

During the French revoluion they rioted many times before they started cutting off peoples heads. In America they did the same before taking up arms against the british. What we are seeing now is no different than what has happened time and time again since the romans had their empire.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:43 AM   #34
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There are many, many penalties built into our system for being poor. If I overdraft my checking account, there's a $34.00 fee. If I'm 4 days late on rent, it's a $50 fee plus $10 more a day after that. There are late fees built into all of my utility bills and contract payments. I understand the reason those fees exist, but when you're living paycheck to paycheck and trying to get out of the hole, one or two fees can start a domino effect, causing a cycle of more fees. And If you happen to be desperate enough to start charging necessities to a credit card, don't be late in your payments on that, because not only do they charge late fees, they raise the interest rates.

I'm just saying that it's harder to get out of that cycle than some people think.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:04 AM   #35
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I'm doing good now, but the first few years outta high school sucked. A little background i'm in the computer industry and I do get paid well now. But at the time trying to find an IT job was horrible as all the entry level jobs wanted experience. So its a catch 22 for people coming outta school. Even college degrees don't help. A friend of mine has a management information systems degree and does crap call center work, because he doesn't have "years of experiences". So i did crap office supply work till I managed to break into the industry. Looking back I probably shoulda got creative with my resume but hey everybody's excessively idealistic when their young.

I really feel sorry for people who have to work at those crap jobs they're whole lives. They'll never get into management and make decent money as you usually have to have a degree for anything like that. IT's not like that yet but if that happens i'm definitely going to school and getting a degree in something.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:09 AM   #36
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So, are you saying you should try to start working as soon as possible to get experience and forget the degree, or work WHILE you go to college so you can have experience to go with it? I guess a better question is, when are you supposed to sleep?
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:42 AM   #37
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Not really offering any solutions but mentioning the bullshit catch 22. The only solution would be to force businesses to hire people straight outta college or trade schools but you know that would never happen. I'm sure situations like that contribute to the poor.
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky Spencer View Post
So, are you saying you should try to start working as soon as possible to get experience and forget the degree,
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Spooky Spencer View Post
or work WHILE you go to college so you can have experience to go with it?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Spooky Spencer View Post
I guess a better question is, when are you supposed to sleep?
A running 'joke' at the 4-yr college i went to, which ran on a 24/7 schedule, was "sleep is for lazy people". It came in liquid form. We had credit card operated vending machines all over campus that sold nothing but Red Bull and Full Throttle, and there was a full service Starbucks in one of the main lobbies. But I went to a specialized school, so that's not the case for everyone.

It is a catch-22. Education is fucking expensive. But without a degree, you pretty much don't have a shot. With a degree, you have more of a shot but there's no guarantee it will do you any good. In fact in a lot of cases it could make you worse off. There are many, many factors involved and student loans can often be a trap that you will never get out of.

A lot depends on the field you are trying to get into. All of it depends on how dedicated you are, and how much you're willing to sacrifice for it.

Most people, especially in this economy, don't have the money stashed away to pay for their degree so they have to rely on student loans (both federal and private) and grants. Private loans are based on credit, and there aren't a lot of people with very good credit these days. Federal loans are available for just about anyone out there. Problem is, Fed loans and grants don't cover very much, so you almost always have to rely on private loans to cover the difference, and that's where you really get screwed.

The best thing to do is get as many of your gen-ed credits as you can out of the way through a LOCAL college, if you don't have the marks to get accepted to a university. Even if you do, universities are almost always more expensive than a community college.

Work while you're in school, whenever you can. Even if you're waiting tables while you're studying to be a doctor, the more you can pay of your own tuition, and pay on the interest that will build while you're in school, the better off you'll be in the long run. If it means working 2 jobs and only attending college part time, then that's what you do. It can be done. It just takes dedication and creativity.

Whatever you do, AVOID for-profit schools whenever possible. They are not schools, they are a business, and the only thing they care about is money. Sometimes, however, (and more often than not, these days), depending on the field you're trying to get into, where you live, where you're able to move to, for-profits may be the only option. Some of them are good at what they teach, but most are not. Very few of them are transferrable, and all of them will charge you multiple times more what it would cost you at a community college. Unfortunately, community colleges, while much less expensive, don't offer everything. And the degrees they do offer are in fields that are already so over-saturated, you're really not getting anywhere but further in debt. You'll graduate to the unemployment line, with a fancy degree and a mountain of student loan debt that you will never escape, and a badge that says "over qualified" for a lot of the minimum wage jobs you try to apply for that have nothing to do with the degree you earned.

The student loan crisis in the US is the next bubble to burst. Millions of college grads are unemployed and over qualified for any other jobs, and are in massive debt. They're in default on their student loans, both federal and private. Student loans CAN NOT be discharged in bankruptcy. They are with you for life. If you can't make your minimum payments, there are programs that can help, but they only last for so long and they do nothing for the interest that continues to build. Meanwhile those programs designed to help you in the short term can wind up doubling and trippling your debt in the long run. Your pay can be garnished, up to 15 - 20%, by both federal and private lenders. Social Security and disability can also be garnished by both federal and private lenders. So think long and hard about the degree you want to pursue, make sure its something that you enjoy doing and can see yourself doing for the rest of your life because your loans will be with you the majority of that life. Make sure you only borrow what you absolutely need and pay it off as quickly as possible. A $2K loan can easily become $20K in just a few short years due to the insane interest rates that all student loans carry. Not to mention what it will do to your credit, and more and more employers are looking at credit scores, declining applicants based on just a few bad marks, regardless of how qualified you are for the position.
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