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Old 07-22-2012, 08:53 PM   #76
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I'm always in utter shock when somebody compliments me and I have this tendency to try to argue it. I need to work on just saying "thank you" and letting it be. So thanks!
Heh. You're totes welcome.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:07 PM   #77
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It has been quite a sad tragedy. My heart goes out to every one who's suffered from this.

I think for many of us, our minds race to figure out how we can prevent such events from happening in the future, some wish to assign blame. I don't think the answer lies in blaming media or guns.

Perhaps there is a more humanitarian way of making the world a little better and safer. In much of our culture, there is a stigma put upon those who suffer from mental illness, that stigma extends to those who seek help for it, that compounded with the costs of mental health services can be a deterrent for those who would benefit from therapies and medications that are currently unavailable to them.

I was thinking about this, because its not exactly common for people to run out and randomly hurt and kill other people, it rather indicates that there's a deeper issue which needs to be addressed.

Two things I think would help, and would be good to work toward either way:

1) Working to lessen and abolish the stigma surrounding people with mental issues or illness

2) Making therapies and medications more readily available to the average person.

Just my two cents.
Whoa. Totally didn't see this. I'll probably comment tomorrow morning, but I'm not ignoring you.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:15 PM   #78
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I'm just uncomfortable to say "poor boy must have been really ill", namely because if it was a man of colour, we'd be labeling him a thug, meanwhile you google James Holmes and one of the first links is "he's boyfriend material". And he was a PhD student. Students typically get really good health care through their school, and the University of Colorado provides mental health care to its students regardless if they opted in or out of the health care plan (and you can only opt out if you have other insurance.) This wasn't some poor guy who couldn't afford his meds or a diagnosis, this was a guy who had plenty of access to health care. Hell, this was a med school student.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #79
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So am I. I don't think we'll know the why regarding this person until he goes to trial. Even then, if he's found criminally insane he'll be studied for years before anything is brought to light.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:39 PM   #80
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No doubt it'll be years! From what we know now I'll be surprised if he's found criminally insane (you have to prove that you can't tell the difference between right or wrong), and people can be smart enough to lie about it, like David Berkowitz (Son Of Sam) later said he made up the whole demons thing, although now he claims it was all the work of a Satanic cult.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #81
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I like how none of the news sources imply it could have been terrorism.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:51 PM   #82
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Wow, didn't know that detail about Berkowitz. After what this guy pulled and the claims he made, I have a feeling he's gloating like John Doe in "Se7en" happy that his actions will be studied for years.

Versus, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet either. After all, he loaded up his apartment with homemade explosives and planted a dud at the theater.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:58 PM   #83
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It's because he's white. People assume he's a mentally unstable genius with a plan. I hate to say it, but come the fuck on. When a Muslim soldier did that mass shooting at Ft. Hood, everybody *knew* he was a "terrorist."
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:04 PM   #84
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Wow, didn't know that detail about Berkowitz. After what this guy pulled and the claims he made, I have a feeling he's gloating like John Doe in "Se7en" happy that his actions will be studied for years.
I think that's the goal of many serial and mass murderers in peace time countries. You go down in infamy, you gain admirers (think of Richard Ramirez, who despite being a serial rapist, gained many many female fans and eventually married one), people will be talking about you long after you're dead. Its a way to find acceptance in a society that you feel rejected from.

Mental illness can enable a person to go through with it, certainly, and may be responsible for feeling outcast, but its not a symptom of any one kind of illness, and its a cultural manifestation.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:12 PM   #85
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Wow, what a thread.

The world is inherently unsafe. There are some things you can do to mitigate some of that, but there is no way to completely prevent awful things from happening.

Searches before going into the movies isn't the answer. You have to go through that and more before getting on to an airplane, and all kinds of things end up getting through that shouldn't. I occasionally have to fly. I never have to watch a movie, and if I have to deal with that just to sit down I'll download movies and not have to deal with noisy assholes, sticky floors, or active shooters.

Proposing some hero 2nd Amendment gunslinger in the audience could have helped is beyond absurd. Buying a gun with glow-in-the-dark sights doesn't magically turn you into Bruce Willis. If 2 or 3 people drew down and decided to try engaging a lunatic in a poorly lit crowded theatre with little mobility, there would be a horrible amount of collateral damage. Assuming random movie goers can react appropriately to an active shooter is a fucking delusional fantasy. Merely owning a gun does not make you suddenly have perfect situational awareness.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:53 AM   #86
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What really kills me is that Deadman has such a sick imagination. I guess a combat veteran saying that is a fucked up situation to react to isn't enough.

Speaking of, there was military personal in the movie. I know because my phone was blowing up from people asking if I was involved. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they were armed. But I guess that doesn't fit neatly into Deadman's gun owner fantasy.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:12 AM   #87
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Yeah I remember back in '95 when the Oklahoma City Bombing took place people were quick to point fingers at Muslim terrorists but were completely dumbstruck that not only were the conspirators white, but prior service as well.

Deadman strikes me as that bored cornfed redneck who hasn't done shit with his life so now he jerks off to fantasies of becoming the big hero like he saw growing up in cowboy movies. Funny thing is, despite all this hard talk of what to do with what weapon, chances are he'd shit his pants and cry for mommy, just like how I saw a lot of people do the same in Tikrit when the worst we got were indirect rounds fired at us.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:00 AM   #88
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I don't think that power fantasies are that exclusive of a psychology. Tons of soldiers fantasize about being in combat. Shit, little boys do, too. Personally, I used to practice kung fu in the bath tub as a child. I'd guess that the violence fetish is a lot more subtle and pervasive then a redneck with a concealed carry license.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:18 AM   #89
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Yeah I remember back in '95 when the Oklahoma City Bombing took place people were quick to point fingers at Muslim terrorists but were completely dumbstruck that not only were the conspirators white, but prior service as well.

Deadman strikes me as that bored cornfed redneck who hasn't done shit with his life so now he jerks off to fantasies of becoming the big hero like he saw growing up in cowboy movies. Funny thing is, despite all this hard talk of what to do with what weapon, chances are he'd shit his pants and cry for mommy, just like how I saw a lot of people do the same in Tikrit when the worst we got were indirect rounds fired at us.
Chances are even better he leaps into action, and over-enthusiastically squeezes the grip while pulling the trigger because fine motor control goes out the window under stress, the shot goes to the left, and now some poor person is crippled for life.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:20 PM   #90
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...doesn't fit neatly into Deadman's gun owner fantasy.
He is blaming the victims of the crime as a means to feel invulnerable and safe. It is like those who decide that an assault victim was assaulted because she walked home in the dark.. "...and I *never* walk home in the dark, so I will *never* be assaulted."

Victims of crimes are reminders of our own vulnerability to crime, so we use magical thinking and victim-blaming to reassure ourselves that we can feel safe.

We don't want to think on the possibility of losing control over our own lives or bodies and by deciding that a victim of crime either brought on the attack through their own actions, or could have somehow stopped it from occurring, we can create a false sense of security... which means that as long as we don't act in the same way that the victim did at the time of their attack we will stay safe.

He feels scared by the events that occurred, and is reassuring himself that he won't be a victim of the same situation because he would act differently.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:40 PM   #91
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I'm just uncomfortable to say "poor boy must have been really ill", namely because if it was a man of colour, we'd be labeling him a thug, meanwhile you google James Holmes and one of the first links is "he's boyfriend material". And he was a PhD student. Students typically get really good health care through their school, and the University of Colorado provides mental health care to its students regardless if they opted in or out of the health care plan (and you can only opt out if you have other insurance.) This wasn't some poor guy who couldn't afford his meds or a diagnosis, this was a guy who had plenty of access to health care. Hell, this was a med school student.
Cost is only one factor, the stigma still remains. Living in Colorado, I can tell you that it can be a huge deterrent to considering that one has a problem or even getting help. Smart people can suffer from mental illness too, ya know.

Fuck, having insurance doesn't mean your costs are totally covered either. One can have insurance, and most of the time it doesn't even cover mental health. Physical health is barely covered half the time, between co-pay and issues that aren't covered.

Mind you, this coming from some one who doesn't even know what its like to have all of ones medical expenses covered.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:52 PM   #92
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Cost is only one factor, the stigma still remains. Living in Colorado, I can tell you that it can be a huge deterrent to considering that one has a problem or even getting help. Smart people can suffer from mental illness too, ya know.

Fuck, having insurance doesn't mean your costs are totally covered either. One can have insurance, and most of the time it doesn't even cover mental health. Physical health is barely covered half the time, between co-pay and issues that aren't covered.

Mind you, this coming from some one who doesn't even know what its like to have all of ones medical expenses covered.
Its likely the school offers free counseling (my school does, its a way for psychology PhD students to get work), and he was a neuroscience PhD student, if anyone understands why stigma is wrong, it would be him. I know society at large has a stigma but I've found its something universities take very seriously (studies show grades can crash based on mood alone), we have mental health awareness week, eating disorder awareness week, and the counselling centre gets out there and makes sure everyone knows that its an option. I don't see how he could make it to the PhD level without it getting hammered into his head.

And this is all assuming he's mentally ill, it could very well be he's not. ABC News reports most mass murderers are not mentally ill: http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...perts-say?lite There isn't any illness that makes you do this, and among the killers who do have mental illness, the illnesses vary from schizophrenia to anti-social personality disorder.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:05 PM   #93
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There isn't any illness that makes you do this...
^^^THIS!!

Just fucking "^^^THIS!!" all over the place.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:32 PM   #94
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I understand what Versus is saying earlier (which is kind of funny that Deadman couldn't understand and argued with Versus), but it does bother me about what he was implying. Unless he was talking about police protection.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:21 PM   #95
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I meant safety in general, but enough police protection is the only manifestation of that that I can think of. Providing everyone with a gun is called a military, and from my understanding, it doesn't work out too well. Just what I heard.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:38 PM   #96
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Let's make a club those of us who have actually been amidst a shooting. Deadman wished he were so lucky.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #97
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Alan, I love you.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #98
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Who the feck buys guns on layaway?

Chris Rock did a bit on that years ago.

'You better calm the fuck down because in six more payments I can put a cap in yer ass'

Yes, spending money you don't have, paying interest to a company all so you can own an item that will be locked away in your bedroom for a majority of the time, unused.

I take it you don't have kids? I mean, people with children choose to do things like, you know, save up to take a family holiday as opposed to saving up to buy a gun. If you do have a kid, then you are a bad parent on more than one level.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:44 AM   #99
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Who the feck buys guns on layaway?

Chris Rock did a bit on that years ago.

'You better calm the fuck down because in six more payments I can put a cap in yer ass'

Yes, spending money you don't have, paying interest to a company all so you can own an item that will be locked away in your bedroom for a majority of the time, unused.

I take it you don't have kids? I mean, people with children choose to do things like, you know, save up to take a family holiday as opposed to saving up to buy a gun. If you do have a kid, then you are a bad parent on more than one level.
Wait wait wait.........deadman is capable of breeding? We're doomed.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:06 AM   #100
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After what this guy pulled and the claims he made, I have a feeling he's gloating like John Doe in "Se7en" happy that his actions will be studied for years.
Good job the media is there to enable the delusions of unstable people capable of pulling something similar, eh?
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