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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 10-16-2004, 03:32 AM   #26
CptSternn
 
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Seems someone is listening to me. Divine intervention maybe?

Bush triumphalism masks mission unaccomplished in Afghanistan

KABUL (AFP) - Three years after the US-led invasion, Afghanistan is flooding the world with heroin, warlords reign in the provinces, women are scared and the new security forces are underarmed and undersized, analysts say...

http://story.news.**********/news?tmp...te_afghanistan
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Old 10-16-2004, 10:36 AM   #27
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Warning...

Random bit of silliness...


Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMoon
Wow,

I was going to respond to Stern's post but you've said all I was going to say and more.Ya know,it's not the first time that's happened.

I just wanted to relate that my husband had a friend sent to the Pen. for similar reasons to yours,Gypsy.He was a white boi.Should his rights be taken away?He's served his time.

Wolfmoon, that is because I am actually a secret quintuple agent and operative for the United States, Certain hidden Russian organizations and Joint Federation of Tholarian Allied Alien Worlds and we have been watching everything you do, everything you say, every single second of every single day with top secret, noiseless rotor, urban assault force attack helicopters, high altitude, unmanned spy planes with extreme high resolution camera’s that transmit ultra encoded information in trinary across hidden bandwidths and top secret alien taskforces with personnel cloaking devices and interplanetary, division issued, fiber optic spy recording bubblegum camera/microphones and so we know everything you are going to do before you do it and everything you are going to think before you think it. Should you come across with some unexpected action or thought we are immediately notified and I utilize my wet wired, fully updated and enhanced, nano-tech robotic fingertip extensions which have replaced my hands with Eighty-seven individual key interception extension points so that we might stay ahead of you, one day clone you and do the same thing we do every night pinky… Try to take over the World!!!…

He he he…

Too much time with too much imagination equates to a strange reality indeed…

Always,
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Old 10-16-2004, 01:22 PM   #28
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Wow,I guess I should quit belching and scratching my ass when I think I'm alone.


I think so Brain,but how are we going to get all those walruses in spandex tights?
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Old 10-16-2004, 01:55 PM   #29
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Sternn,
that's the beauty of democracy. If they don't want our ways, they have a say in that by voting for change. What's some of us thought was even more provocative was that women now had a real voice in things as well there. It may not be the customs they're used to, but that's why it's nice to see that they have the opportunity to opt for change.

Also, it's unfair to say the Muslim religion doesn't approve of our ways. If this were true, then why are there millions of Muslims happily resided in the U.S.? You seem to like the idea that muslim people should stick with their customs and old ways, yet you disapprove of the warlords sticking around, which have been a major part of the Afghan culture for a long time now.

Saying we put the Taliban in power isn't very accurate, as we financed their fight. We didn't fight and win it for them so that they could just walk in. They wrestled it out of the old regime's hands violently themselves with U.S. money. They over-ran Kabul themselves and strung up the old President from a light-post themselves. It was their blood and their struggle. By just financing them, it's probably more fair to say we aided their taking power rather than saying we put them in power.

Not harboring terrorists? They actually sent in Taliban fighters to provide security to Bin Laden on several occasions when he visited with foreign reporters often times to claim responsiblity or speak out about his cause.

As for visiting some of these hotbeds, had it not been for the fact I would have had to lie to federal officals, I most likely would be. I was signed up for Psy-Ops some time ago, which would have had me in Iraq running a major propaganda campaign through their media. You say go to Iraq to learn the truth about these places, but if you were to turn on the TV in Iraq, listen to the radio, or talk with people, you'd be listening to nothing but either U.S. propaganda or islamic extremist propaganda. Yeah, you may see a car bomb go off here and there, but sight-seeing isn't a popular thing in Iraq right about now. If anything, by being in the center of it all you'd most likely be even further from the truth.

U.S. media also doesn't candy-coat much of anything from Iraq or Afghanistan. If you've learned anything about U.S. culture, it's that the media plays off of fear-tatics to gain viewership. 80% of everything reported on about those countries is bad publicity. Every day the main headline for Iraq generally has "Car Bomb" or "Americans/GIs Killed" in it. So yeah, no one here has really been misled by the media a whole lot about the on-going carnage and violence going on in these countries. That's why it's nice to finally see headlines on the democratic elections in Afghanistan where most of everything was on an up-lifting note. We know there's bad shit going on in the world. We can't turn on the TV, open up the news paper, or read online news coverage day by day without being reminded constantly. So some would perfer to talk about and praise the good once in a while because it's a nice change.

Doesn't mean we've forgotten about Afghanistan's problems.
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:42 PM   #30
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.BP., you made some good points, but about America hearing only bad things about Iraq, I have to disagree. When President Bush stood on the USS Abraham Lincoln and said
Quote:
Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
...that was *certainly* sugar-coating the situation. Especially when President Bush knew very well that the United States did not have the finances, the man-power, the support, or the *leadership* to clean up what we have done to the Iraqi people.

He tends to take more of an optomistic stance on how things are in the middle east than they really are. Maybe the media takes a more pessimistic stance, but the lives lost in Iraq aren't made up. Yes, they scare me. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be front-page news.
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:07 PM   #31
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Sorry Tea,
let me clarify. What I meant by "media" is Associated Press coverage and whatnot. I don't think anyone here is in a position to take up an arguement that politicians don't sugar-coat Iraq's current situation. :D
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:28 PM   #32
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Politicians and the media are very closely related.... but I digress.

I think our president, specificaly, is a huge part of the media that Americans recieve. When he takes time to make special speeches after debate failure, and the networks allow for this... I clump him in with with the term "media."

But I do get what you're saying.
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Old 10-16-2004, 04:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeapotScar
Politicians and the media are very closely related.... but I digress.
I'd disagree, because what the press/networks tell you and what the politicians tell you are motivated by two very different interests. The press will give you the absolute worst account of a situation often times in order to provoke interest in the viewer. The politicians will give you the sugar-coated version to restore confidence and improve the approval-rate for themselves. They both communicate with the public on a massive level (one through the other), but that's about where the common interest ends (CBS is the exception though when it's comes to Kerry's campaign).

Quote:
I think our president, specificaly, is a huge part of the media that Americans recieve. When he takes time to make special speeches after debate failure, and the networks allow for this... I clump him in with with the term "media."
The press/networks will cover anything they think will get more viewership. If it's President Bush standing in front of the camera with his thumb up his ass, they'll shoot/cover it. If it's Edwards demanding an interview so he can deliver his unexperienced (and often times uneducated) opinion, you bet the press will be there. Because politicians use the media as a tool doesn't mean they sell the same thing. The press/networks sell information and fear. Politicians sell confidence and hope.

Another thing to consider; who actually gets their news from the latter?
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeapotScar
Politicians and the media are very closely related.... but I digress.
I'd disagree, because what the press/networks tell you and what the politicians tell you are motivated by two very different interests. The press will give you the absolute worst account of a situation often times in order to provoke interest in the viewer. The politicians will give you the sugar-coated version to restore confidence and improve the approval-rate for themselves. They both communicate with the public on a massive level (one through the other), but that's about where the common interest ends (CBS is the exception though when it's comes to Kerry's campaign).

Quote:
I think our president, specificaly, is a huge part of the media that Americans recieve. When he takes time to make special speeches after debate failure, and the networks allow for this... I clump him in with with the term "media."
The press/networks will cover anything they think will get more viewership. If it's President Bush standing in front of the camera with his thumb up his ass, they'll shoot/cover it. If it's Edwards demanding an interview so he can deliver his unexperienced (and often times uneducated) opinion, you bet the press will be there. Because politicians use the media as a tool doesn't mean they sell the same thing. The press/networks sell information and fear. Politicians sell confidence and hope.

Another thing to consider; who actually gets their news from the latter?
I'll give the trite example of Rupert Murdoch running Fox news.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407090008



78% of Fox news watchers believed that there was a proven direct lilnk between Al- Qaeda and Iraq, even though this is false.
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Ir..._03_Report.pdf
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:11 PM   #35
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Bill O'Reilly's opinion holds about as much water as Dennis Miller's. He's basically a talk-show act. The guy isn't giving anyone a news report, he just acts like a buffoon in front of a camera with political heavy-weights trying to explain to him that's he's fucking dead wrong half the time.

Gibon's another waste-of-space enterainer, not a reporter. These two goons express their opinions for the majority of their shows and in no way give accurate figures half the time.

In clarificaiton again, I was leaning towards real press coverage from the like's of the Associated Press and Reuters. Sources that most people consider reliable, as opposed to Fox News (I honestly don't know anyone who gets their news from that station) or other "entertainment acts," which we can squeeze Michael Moore, Collin Quin, and Dennis Miller into. People who perfer opinion-based news.

As for the direct links to Al Quaeda, there are direct links. It's stated and published in the 9/11 report, outlining meetings that took place between Bin Laden, himself, and Iraqi Intellegence officals. What they're refering to in this article/report is that there was never proven to be a "collaborative operational relationship" between the two parties.
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:27 AM   #36
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Your once again drudging up inacurate information. Thats the problem with the US today - people have been lied to so much they believe it. From 2 weeks ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/

NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,

So if your arguing you know of a tie, you might wanna call up the Defense Department, because in their address to their allies, they made it clear they had absolutely no evidence.

The problems with most americans who argue politics, is they have no real bearing on what happens to them. For example - an american can argue one point or another they got from watching news clips in between reruns of the simpsons and sponge bob, then go take a nice warm shower, order a pizza, and go sleep in a nice bed.

At the end of the day, no matter what they say or do really means shit. No matter who or what they support really matters, as it really doesnt affect them or their lives. They will argue that hey, this does effect me, but i mean really, if another iraqi dies or bush declares martial law in iraq, are you going to miss a meal?

As long ya you get your rent paid, your car insurance paid, and have enough money to fuck off to the mall and buy the latest pop album, most yanks give ashit less about real problems as they have none.

When you live in a place where these decisions effect whether or not you eat, whether or not your favorite cafe blows up, or whether or not your immediate family dies, well, some of us take it more seriously.

Bushes policies in Africa have led to thousands of refugees in Ireland. There is a local hostel that has been rented out indefinately to house the more than 500 that is in this small town of 20,000 I live in alone. Ask them what they think of Bush and his policies.

We have many Iraqi refugees here as well, and more coming in daily. Forced from the homes because the US bomed them, killing their family members. How many of them have you met in the states? Every seen a child that has been so hidiously disfigured by bomb shrapnel, they barely appear human? I'm guessing your answer is no.

Irony is, these refugees are going to the country that are against the war(s). They are coming in by the thousands. They have lost everything they own to Bush's policies. I see them daily, but the US has strict policies now on immigration keeping them out. They take away their homes, their lives, and then expect them to fuck off to other parts of the world. I say the US should take these poor people in. Some men, but mostly women, children, and the elderly. The US destoryed their lives in a quest to 'give them a better way of life'. Guess what, they aren't buying it.

If anyone wants to, I'll personally give ya a place to stay here in Ireland - you can come live with a family of Iraqi refugees (or Nigerians, Liberians, or one of the many others that have come in the last 3 years). I know many. They are all over Europe actually - you can't walk down the street without running into a few. Think of it as a learning holiday.

Until you experience the policies on THIER end, hear about what the policies did to them, then you have no right to sit back in your cushy chair in your air conditioned/central air heated home and judge these people.

I say visit the people, not the media or government propoganda, to get the story. Look in their eyes, break bread at their house, hear their story, THEN tell me you still feel the same way.

Once again, like trying to explain colors to a blind man.

Slán

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Old 10-17-2004, 12:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,
The Bush Administration, EVERY time they've made a statement about the connection, have always made similar statements.

However, Americans who support the administration keep making the connection. So the Bush gang can deny it all they want, but Bubba still thinks we went into Iraq to save us from Al Qaeda. IMHO the Republicans know that the vast majority of their constituents hear what they want to hear, and take advantage of the fact.

So, to the Republicans on this site, who are intelligent people, please tell me...

Why do you keep thinking the Iraq invasion had anything to do with Al Qaeda?

Why, in your opinion, we were putting this Saddam out of power instead of focusing on the war against Al Qaeda, and the rebuilding of Afghanistan? I mean, couldn't it just wait?

Also, very unanswered -- do you REALLY think we're going to set up an actual Democracy in Iraq with a 60% Shiite population living there?


BTW, there have been several stories involving Republicans indulging in voter fraud nationwide as the following. I'm hoping the site's Repubicans will send similar links about Democrat organizations. I think, in an obscure way, it would make me feel better:


"Local party officials said there is no way the GOP would instruct the company to trash democratic registrations. However, similar problems have been alleged elsewhere. In Washoe County, the registrar says he too has turned over information to the FBI about Republican backed registration efforts.

In Oregon, the same company that was operating here has been criticized for its tactics in signing up voters. There, it used the name America Votes, which is actually the name of a Democratic organization."

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story....5&nav=168XRvNe

You Oreganos take note. Hopefully you're all aware of this particular company by now.

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Old 10-17-2004, 12:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.
People who perfer opinion-based news.
.
All kinds of news are opinion based.

That's why it is so important to use different sources. You can find "evidence" for almost every point of view you want to almost every topic you want. That is why it is so important to read and think about news that offer a different point of view. We usually are looking for the kind of news that are supporting our point of view, that are supporting the way we have made up our mind about a certain topic. We usually avoid to disturb that picture we have made up in our mind. But that's what we have to. Question everything. Question ourselves. Trying to see things from a different point of view.

I agree to Sternn - it is helpful to go to other countries, get to know other cultures and other point of views.

I think human kind's most dangerous habit is to define good and evil by the standards of our own culture. Standards, we are used to, standards that seem to work out for us and we could not imagine differently.
We sometimes forget that people living in other cultures also have something to say about ethics.
We sometimes forget that what we aren't used to doesn't have to be bad consequently.
And even if it was, violence doesn't seem to be a good way for me to impress people of other cultures of the etchic values of our beautiful democratic society.

Concerning Afghanistan - Afghanistan has been bombed, civilians have suffered as in any war, but there are still Taliban. Taliban that are influencing the elections by threatening society, expecially women not to vote.
Is this the beauty of democracy brought to Afghanistan?

Things are not that simple, unfortunatley, not simple enough that we can read the news and some internet articles and believe to be informed about "the true facts".

We would lack a lot of problems if it was that way.
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Your once again drudging up inacurate information. Thats the problem with the US today - people have been lied to so much they believe it. From 2 weeks ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/

NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,

So if your arguing you know of a tie, you might wanna call up the Defense Department, because in their address to their allies, they made it clear they had absolutely no evidence.

The problems with most americans who argue politics, is they have no real bearing on what happens to them. For example - an american can argue one point or another they got from watching news clips in between reruns of the simpsons and sponge bob, then go take a nice warm shower, order a pizza, and go sleep in a nice bed.

At the end of the day, no matter what they say or do really means shit. No matter who or what they support really matters, as it really doesnt affect them or their lives. They will argue that hey, this does effect me, but i mean really, if another iraqi dies or bush declares martial law in iraq, are you going to miss a meal?

As long ya you get your rent paid, your car insurance paid, and have enough money to fuck off to the mall and buy the latest pop album, most yanks give ashit less about real problems as they have none.

When you live in a place where these decisions effect whether or not you eat, whether or not your favorite cafe blows up, or whether or not your immediate family dies, well, some of us take it more seriously.

Bushes policies in Africa have led to thousands of refugees in Ireland. There is a local hostel that has been rented out indefinately to house the more than 500 that is in this small town of 20,000 I live in alone. Ask them what they think of Bush and his policies.

We have many Iraqi refugees here as well, and more coming in daily. Forced from the homes because the US bomed them, killing their family members. How many of them have you met in the states? Every seen a child that has been so hidiously disfigured by bomb shrapnel, they barely appear human? I'm guessing your answer is no.

Irony is, these refugees are going to the country that are against the war(s). They are coming in by the thousands. They have lost everything they own to Bush's policies. I see them daily, but the US has strict policies now on immigration keeping them out. They take away their homes, their lives, and then expect them to fuck off to other parts of the world. I say the US should take these poor people in. Some men, but mostly women, children, and the elderly. The US destoryed their lives in a quest to 'give them a better way of life'. Guess what, they aren't buying it.

If anyone wants to, I'll personally give ya a place to stay here in Ireland - you can come live with a family of Iraqi refugees (or Nigerians, Liberians, or one of the many others that have come in the last 3 years). I know many. They are all over Europe actually - you can't walk down the street without running into a few. Think of it as a learning holiday.

Until you experience the policies on THIER end, hear about what the policies did to them, then you have no right to sit back in your cushy chair in your air conditioned/central air heated home and judge these people.

I say visit the people, not the media or government propoganda, to get the story. Look in their eyes, break bread at their house, hear their story, THEN tell me you still feel the same way.

Once again, like trying to explain colors to a blind man.

Slán

-S
Slan-
I agree with much of what you have said, here. You bring up good facts from good sources, and support them well. If you've read any of my humble posts you'll know that I am, also, fervently against the Bush administration and against the war on Iraq. You may have, also, read that I am an American.

I would like to point out however, that your message comes off a touch anti-American, employing a lot of low stereotypes. I know that's just because of the intensity of such a passionate argument, but I would encourage you to be more careful with your words. Yes, I am an American. However, being born into privelage is not something I'm going to slit my wrists over.

I genuinely care about what's going on, internationally, and I make it my business to find out from as close to first-hand sources as possible. I read health reports and international newspapers, as well as my own country's media. Don't brush me off as an un-caring "consumer whore" (heh- "and how...") because I'm an American. There are plenty of caring Americans: I hope you can see that, reading these boards. Even if people don't have your perspective, it doesn't mean they don't really care.

I wouldn't stereotype your fellow citizens in such a restrictive manner; give my fellow citizens the same respect.

Aside from that rant, I would like to thank you *so* much for again dispelling the disturbing rumors that Al-Qaeda and Iraq are connected. It's a complicated war, and it's a shame that there are so many lies and misconceptions out there.
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Old 10-17-2004, 03:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Your once again drudging up inacurate information. Thats the problem with the US today - people have been lied to so much they believe it. From 2 weeks ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/

NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,

So if your arguing you know of a tie, you might wanna call up the Defense Department, because in their address to their allies, they made it clear they had absolutely no evidence.
The Defense Department kinda has it's hands full. I hope Yahoo news will suffice: Article
"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein, although he later backed off the statement and said he was misunderstood."

Quote:
They will argue that hey, this does effect me, but i mean really, if another iraqi dies or bush declares martial law in iraq, are you going to miss a meal?
Tomorrow? Nope. When US troops were occupying Saudi Arabia a decade ago and some muslim radical got all fussy about it, did that affect anyone here in America? On September 11th, 2001 it did. Did the events that unfolded after September 11th cause the loss of jobs? Yes. Did people miss meals because of this? Yes. Did some seemingly insignificant event that happend half way around the world end up effecting people back here in the states? Yes. Are you familiar with the Butterfly Effect, Sternn? This is why many people, reguardless of if they're in the middle of a conflict or not, care. Why else do we care? Cause we have the power to change things by voting. It's called Democracy.

Quote:
As long ya you get your rent paid, your car insurance paid, and have enough money to fuck off to the mall and buy the latest pop album, most yanks give ashit less about real problems as they have none.
That's correct. People living in neighborhoods here in America where gang violence takes the lives of innocent bystanders daily don't have any real problems.

Here's something else that's kinda interesting. Many of the Saudi nationals who were aboard the planes durring 9/11 were from the middle class in their own country. They didn't have to deal with some foriegn country coming in and shooting up the neighborhood. They didn't have to deal with real problems, as you say. These are people who would spill their thoughts out from "cushy chairs," yet they they sure as hell played a big part in world history. But at the end of the day, their thoughts don't matter, right? I mean, what could they actually do with those insignificant thoughts? They haven't lived the "Hard Knock Life," therefore their thoughts don't carry any weight.


Quote:
How many of them have you met in the states?
Ask Loy.

Quote:
Every seen a child that has been so hidiously disfigured by bomb shrapnel, they barely appear human? I'm guessing your answer is no.
That's the beauty of the media. They have the power to show us these things (and do). The answer is "Yes."

Quote:
Until you experience the policies on THIER end, hear about what the policies did to them, then you have no right to sit back in your cushy chair in your air conditioned/central air heated home and judge these people.
Tell me, from your cushy chair, who's judging these people?

Quote:
I say visit the people, not the media or government propoganda, to get the story. Look in their eyes, break bread at their house, hear their story, THEN tell me you still feel the same way.
Why don't you come to America and get an idea of what America is really about by visiting with the KKK. Listen to their story. No? How about the Black Panthers? Point is, you can travel to a country and talk with people who have been subjected to lots of propaganda in their lives, and yet learn absolutely nothing about what that country really feels about what's really going on.
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Old 10-17-2004, 04:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmmadDawn
Why do you keep thinking the Iraq invasion had anything to do with Al Qaeda?
Possiblity of a regime, which has a track record of supporting terrorism, is suspected of currently being in the final stages of developing WMDs. That same regime has knowingly had "talks" with Al Qaida operatives and Bin Laden himself. Possiblity that Saddam could broaden his support for terrorism by selling a nuke to Al Qaida = Immediate Problem. Immediate Problem = Pressure. Pressure with no crack = Invasion.

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Why, in your opinion, we were putting this Saddam out of power instead of focusing on the war against Al Qaeda, and the rebuilding of Afghanistan? I mean, couldn't it just wait?
As explained above, it was an immediate problem. Not only that, but as Bush has made clear, "The war on terrorism isn't just to be fought in Afghanistan, because it doesn't just exist there." (Paraphrased of course). The mentality at the time was that if we waited, Al Qaida would be in our country with a nuke if we waited too long.
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Old 10-17-2004, 04:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Nike
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Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.
People who perfer opinion-based news.
.
All kinds of news are opinion based.
But not all news is.

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Concerning Afghanistan - Afghanistan has been bombed, civilians have suffered as in any war, but there are still Taliban. Taliban that are influencing the elections by threatening society, expecially women not to vote.
Is this the beauty of democracy brought to Afghanistan?
The Taliban? They're not a part of the democracy we brought.
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Old 10-17-2004, 05:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by TeapotScar
I would like to point out however, that your message comes off a touch anti-American, employing a lot of low stereotypes. I know that's just because of the intensity of such a passionate argument, but I would encourage you to be more careful with your words. Yes, I am an American. However, being born into privelage is not something I'm going to slit my wrists over.

ALL he ever does anymore is rant. Lived here, apparently it was hell on Earth, moved, but he misses us so much he gets on here.

All I see of some people on this site is they log on to rant, usually with too much emotion and biased views, and that's it.

Get on a North Korean board and bitch.

OH THAT'S RIGHT they blocked their internet from the rest of the world.

I have nothing against other people's opinions, but shit some of you are a broken record around here.

The worst part is all this bitching gets nothing done. Go out and run for office and make a change.

Or try anti-depressents, either way...
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:00 AM   #44
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Al-Me being foreign-born prevents me from ever running for president (unless congress passes some kind of "Arnie" clause), and really, what's the point of becoming a politician if I can't move forward?...No, I prefer influencing the culture around me in other ways....and as much as Koreans hate Flips (especially half-breed Flips), I don't see logging onto a N. Korean board as being especially smart.

.BP.-why bring me into an argument? Especially when I was about to rip into mr "lives-in-a-glass-house-yet-loves-the-way-rocks-feel-when-flying-out-hand"?....oh well....too late to do shit about it now.
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Old 10-18-2004, 07:54 AM   #45
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Loy I was refering to those abroad who despise the way the world is going, specifically how it affects their region.

You, while I don't agree with a good deal of your politics, are actually doing something.

Heh my cousin's family served under the Marco's regime/party and got out of Dodge when things went bad.
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:29 AM   #46
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Ya know...........

I'm just wondering if these refugees that our friend Sternn here knows know he seems to support terrorism?How would they feel about that?Living in a country that supports terrorism is better than living in one with the democracy-demon,right?

Right?
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:53 AM   #47
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To be fair, I'd like to see them list all the good the U.S. does Wolfy, but that's a pretty unpopular stance, and therefor will go untouched.

Authority figures are always get the brunt of all complaints, good or bad. It's trendy to be angst ridden and put your (not your) problems on us.

"I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians."

God bless ya Mr. Sinclair.
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:18 AM   #48
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Aha!

That explains it then!
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:26 AM   #49
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Oh,I just wanted to add one more thing.

Seeing as all americans have so damned cushy I guess it's time we quit whining about having it so damn hard.Cuz we all know none of us had hard lives,right EPS,Gypsy,OTFW,Al,Tom,Battery?Cuz living on the streets, out of your car, having little to no food on your table,being behind on rent and other bills.............

That's nothing to whine about damnit!So we all need to just stfu!


Thanks for enlightening us Sternn.




:roll:
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:42 AM   #50
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Right!

And for the Kerry/Edwards lovers (who live here and can choose them to be in office), you do know they are just as supportive of Isreal, right?
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