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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 01-30-2005, 12:07 PM   #151
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:51 PM   #152
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Against violent backdrop, Iraqis turn out to vote
Attacks on polling stations kill 44, including 9 suicide bombersThe Associated Press
Updated: 2:27 p.m. ET Jan

BAGHDAD, Iraq - More Iraqis than anticipated defied threats of violence and calls for a boycott to cast ballots Sunday in Iraq's first free election in a half-century. The violence continued unabated, however, with insurgent attacks on polling stations killing at least 44 people, including nine suicide bombers.

Optimism about the vote was tempered by low turnout among Sunni Muslims, which could undermine the new government and worsen tensions among the country’s ethnic, religious and cultural groups.
---------------------------
Women in black abayas whispered prayers at the sound of a nearby explosion as they waited to vote at one Baghdad polling station. But the mood elsewhere was triumphant, with long lines in many places in the city: Civilians and policemen danced with joy outside one polling site, and some streets were packed with voters walking shoulder-to-shoulder toward polling centers.
---------------------------
Al-Zarqawi group claims attacks
Insurgent attacks started within two hours of the polls opening, and over the day there were eight suicide attacks, mostly against polling sites, involving bombers on foot who strapped explosives to their bodies since private cars were banned from the streets.
-----------------------------------
Casting his vote, Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi called it “the first time the Iraqis will determine their destiny.”
---------------------------
Brisk turnout in Shiite areas
Voter turnout was brisk in Shiite Muslim and mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhoods of Baghdad, and U.S. officials said some stations ran out of ballots. Even in the small town of Askan in the so-called “triangle of death” south of Baghdad, 20 people waited in line at each of several polling centers. More walked toward the polls.

“Am I scared? Of course I’m not scared. This is my country,” said 50-year-old Fathiya Mohammed, wearing a head-to-toe abaya cloak.

At one polling place in Baghdad, soldiers and voters joined hands in a dance, and in Baqouba, voters jumped and clapped to celebrate the historic day.
-----------------------------------
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6874656/?GT1=6065
---------------------------------
and, on a different note -

The Independent (London, England); 8/31/2004; McKittrick, David
Byline: David McKittrick

The bricks still sometimes fly in Belfast: people still get killed; old hatreds remain fresh, with divisions so deep many simply cannot live together; the scourge of paramilitarism still stalks the land.

Ten years to the day after the first IRA ceasefire of 1994, not one of Northern Ireland's plentiful problems has been solved: the political, social and economic problems are still there. Yet 10 years of peace process have gradually brought a better life to almost everyone, ushering in a new era.
------------------------------------------

u.s. support for the ceasefire seems to have made a difference there also. the adults in your adopted land, on the other hand, are having a bit of difficulty getting their own shit together.

so, in the immortal words of yoda, mr. sternn -

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Old 01-30-2005, 01:34 PM   #153
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Granny,
that's how they kept track of who voted. They had them dip their fingers into permanent ink. Many Iraqis were baring those stains with pride today.

"Quotes on the Iraqi Elections"

This is "the first time the Iraqis will determine their destiny," Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.

___

"The world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East," President Bush

___

"It may have been the force of arms that removed Saddam and created the circumstances in which Iraqis could vote, but it was the force of freedom that was felt throughout Iraq today," British Prime Minister Tony Blair

___

"What we are seeing here is the emergence of an Iraqi voice of freedom," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

___

"They know they're voting for the future of their country. They're voting for the day when they're going to take their destiny in hand," U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan

___

"The irony is the Arab regimes, who criticize the gaps in the (Iraqi) elections and demand they be honest and transparent leading to full democracy for all Iraqis, are themselves banning such elections for their own peoples," Lebanon's Al-Anwar newspaper political analyst Rafik Khoury.

___

"As you can see, we broke a barrier of fear," electoral commission official Mijm Towirish.

___

"Iraqis are walking over body parts of a bomber to vote," Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn, who was making his seventh trip to Iraq. "Clearly more people are voting in this election than vote in our own elections."

___

"It is hard to say that something is legitimate when whole portions of the country can't vote and doesn't vote," Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.

___

"This is a chance for you as Iraqis to assure your and your children's future," Gov. Hamad Hmoud Shagti, of the mostly Sunni province of Salaheddin.

___

"Certainly, as a starting point when one considers from where the Iraqi people are coming ... this is very good, this is a very good process," Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Canada's top election official and the chief of the International Mission for Iraqi Elections.

___

"This is democracy. This is the first day I feel freedom," Fathiya Mohammed, an elderly woman who voted in the small town of Askan south of Baghdad.


Kerry's just causing trouble, but everyone else had great things to say, including a reporter from the state-run Iraninian news television agency, which praised the elections as, "the beginning of democracy and the end of occupation and insurgency in Iraq."

And on another note, Sternn did keep his fuckin' mouth shut today like a good boy. Saw him signed in but he failed to post trash on the U.S. cause he knew the elections were so monumental that his mediocre bullshit couldn't deter from it's great measure in success. The few cowardly attacks that did take place didn't deter Iraqis from voting or exercising their freedom to. Something his little terrorist buddies didn't want people to do. Newsflash, Sternn: This just goes to show that the majority of Iraqis want this freedom.
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Old 01-30-2005, 02:22 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie
And on another note, Sternn did keep his fuckin' mouth shut today like a good boy. Saw him signed in but he failed to post trash on the U.S. cause he knew the elections were so monumental that his mediocre bullshit couldn't deter from it's great measure in success. The few cowardly attacks that did take place didn't deter Iraqis from voting or exercising their freedom to. Something his little terrorist buddies didn't want people to do. Newsflash, Sternn: This just goes to show that the majority of Iraqis want this freedom.
I saw that too, but I don't think it was as honorable as you are are kindly thinking.

I think the site of Carnac the Magnificent dealing out ownage kept that trap shut.

That and there so far isn't enough bad news yet to rant about. The few insurgents that did attack, God bless thier victims and their families, didn't deter the overall outcome.
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:01 PM   #155
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He was probably holding out, hoping for some kind of massive attack to take place so he could dance around in his luxury apartment and crack his 9/11 jokes, then jump on here and post the article.

But whatever with Sternn. Hope he has a great time drinking himself stupid tonight to forget that Iraqis chose to exercise their freedoms over terrorist threats.

On another note; I've posted a few excerpts from these blogs before when Sternn refused to believe Iraqis held good attitudes towards Americans, but this is defenitely the time to check them out and to hear the reaction straight from the horse's mouth about what Iraqis thought of the election:

Iraq the Model

This site is a collection of blogs written by Iraqis. There was some very compassionate and emotional stuff being laid out into words here for January 30th. Definitely worth checking out.
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:09 PM   #156
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Let us wait for the dust to settle first.


Go Iraq go!!!

Power to the people y'all!
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:25 PM   #157
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Granny,
that's how they kept track of who voted. They had them dip their fingers into permanent ink. Many Iraqis were baring those stains with pride today.
Thanks-once I started reading the news today, I remembered that pretty quickly from Afghanistan. I had just woken up, though, so my brain was hazy.
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:06 PM   #158
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Hazy cause.... you were drinking last night? ;)

Here's a couple quick lines from Hammorabi's blog:

"A pregnant woman insisted to vote and she gave birth in the voting station!"

"The enemies of freedom and democracy like Al-Jazeera (Qatari TV) concentrated today on the attacks and tried to exaggerate them. They wished for more attacks and less turn out and both have not happened. The Iraqis showed the world a lesson how to challenge the terrorists!"

"As we expected the enemies of God and freedom send their mentally retarded cockroaches in some suicidal attacks."

Hey! That reminds me of how some people here think of Sternn.

"Our thanks go to George W Bush who will enter the history as the leader of the freedom and democracy in the recent history! He and his people are our friends for ever!"

And you are our's. Fuckin' A, brother! We're with you!
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Old 01-30-2005, 08:41 PM   #159
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Hazy cause.... you were drinking last night?
Hah. Something like that.
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Old 01-30-2005, 09:38 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie
Hazy cause.... you were drinking last night?
Hah. Something like that.
Haha- drinking? We were drinking the sweet smoke of Hasheesh, baby!
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Old 01-30-2005, 11:22 PM   #161
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You damn kids and your ganja. :roll:
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Old 01-30-2005, 11:32 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie

"As we expected the enemies of God and freedom send their mentally retarded cockroaches in some suicidal attacks."

Hey! That reminds me of how some people here think of Sternn.

"Our thanks go to George W Bush who will enter the history as the leader of the freedom and democracy in the recent history! He and his people are our friends for ever!"

And you are our's. Fuckin' A, brother! We're with you!
That's what I'm fucking saying.

RIGHT THE FUCK ON!!

That makes all of the bloodshed have a purpose. Have some semblance of meaning. We WERE there for a good, pure and just reason. We had the balls to stand up and draw swords for a people that could not do it for themselves.

Iraq is Free and their freedom has choice and direction now and it spits in the face of tyranny.

The people of Iraq had a monster standing on their necks for almost 40 years, what are suicide bombers and cowardly terrorists in comparison to Sadaam?

The Iraqi people took back their balls today and it makes me proud that as an American I can sleep tonight knowing that our nation was partly responsible for that.

Can I get a HELL YEAH!!!

Take THAT Captain Crunch!!

Let Freedom fucking ring...

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Old 01-31-2005, 05:27 AM   #163
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Hahah, quite a laugh today. You think 15% of the ocuntry voting, only the rich who had bodyguards and those who lived close enough to the green zone to have protection of the troops means there is a government mandate of the people now?

All that and half the candidates were denied access to be on the list as they were considered not to be 'good candidates' in the eyes of the united states, meaning the us hand picked a group of carefully selected puppets for the few rich to pick from - sorta like the us elections.

You really think the people there have any faith in the new 'government'?

Once again those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

First, lets look back at recent history. Afghanistan. They had elections last year. Of course outside of the capital of kabul, the us has no power. Warlords still run everything and no one gets two shits about the new 'government'. Tis why the opium crop is the biggest, ever.

Then lets look back at the previously installed goverment. For those who haven't studied the history of Iraq, prior to Sadaam, you will see the government was setup by the brits. Thats right - the brits conqourerd and held iraq until the 1930's, when world war borke out and they were forced to pull out and turn over the country to a puppet government. That government lasted about a month before it was taken over and all the brit puppets were executed.

Once again, the brits along with americans have taken over, installed their own puppet government, and as soon as the troops leave, they will have a big house cleaning again and a new warlord, probably worse and definately more extreme than sadaam will be in power.

Just like here in Ireland. The government made all political parties who wanted the troops out illegal. Sinn Fein was an illegal organisation until the 1960's. Now its the second largest party in the country, soon to be the first.

My proof will be next year, like the past two years, we will still be in the forum, discussing this, as the body count rises and the puppet government flounders about like the afghan government.

However the bush administration played a card they should have held. The fliers which were distributed along with the media propganda that spit out across the country said 'if you vote, we will send the troops home'. Now of the people who voted, they believed this. In a year or two when us troops are still there, even the people who have voted and support the troops will turn against them when they realise they have been had.

Then once again we will see a scene much like the one when the americans fled vietnam - when the helicopters hastily evacuated all personel from saigon, and the 15% of the population that supported the us troops fought to get on those choppers as their own countries men were coming to kill them for collaberating.

I don't know if it feels more like '34 or '72.

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Old 01-31-2005, 08:34 AM   #164
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Hahah, quite a laugh today. You think 15% of the ocuntry voting, only the rich who had bodyguards and those who lived close enough to the green zone...
Quote two or more sources that back that up. Back it up.

The article below says different, so I will denote with an * where this comes into question.


World Leaders Praise Iraqi Vote
Monday, January 31, 2005
Associated Press

BERLIN — World leaders said Monday that Iraqis handed a defeat to terrorism by voting in large numbers in landmark weekend elections, but their welcome was tinged with concern over the low turnout among the Sunni Arab minority.

"It is an initial victory for the Iraqi people and it is a first important step which was indispensable for democracy and for the political process," French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier told Europe-1 radio. "When democracy is there, when people express themselves at the ballot box, it is always a defeat for terrorism."

*Iraq's electoral commission said it believed, based on anecdotal information, that turnout among the estimated 14 million eligible voters was higher than the 57 percent that had been predicted, although it would be some time before any precise turnout figure was confirmed. (Sternn, take note laddy)

"The Iraqis deserve great recognition for the will they have shown to shape the future of their country peacefully and democratically, despite massive intimidation," said Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer of Germany, which, like France, opposed the U.S.-led war in 2003 to oust Saddam Hussein but supported Sunday's elections as a way out of the violence.

In Brussels, the European Union's foreign policy chief said Iraq's move toward democracy would pay off in the provision of more aid.

"They are going to find the support of the European Union, no doubt about that, in order to see this process move on in the right direction," Javier Solana told The Associated Press. Areas where the EU is looking to help include drafting a new constitution and training the judiciary and security forces, he said.


Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi expressed the elections would help spread democracy in Arab countries.

Speaking on state radio, Berlusconi described Sunday's election as "a vote that is certainly something new not just in Iraq, but also in the whole region where Iraq will become influential, a factor of change and democracy for all the other countries."


"This vote can have a positive knock-on effect in all the other Arab countries where there is authoritarian rule, where the situation of women is not one of liberty or dignity, where there are still many steps to make to emerge from the Middle Ages," Berlusconi said.

Still, leaders worried about the low turnout among the Sunni Arab minority, who held a privileged position under Saddam Hussein, and some governments urged authorities to ensure Sunnis were included in the nation-building process.

"The most difficult task lies ahead — to make sure the results of the elections have a stabilizing effect on the situation in the country," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin, another opponent of the war, also praised the elections Monday, calling them "a step in the right direction and a positive event," according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.

Fischer noted that, once a new government is formed, the next move will be to draw up a new Iraqi constitution.

"It is of decisive importance in this to integrate all political, ethnic and religious groups in Iraq," he said in a statement. "Neither violence nor refusing to talk offer a way out of the crisis — at the same time, no part of the population must be excluded from shaping the common fate of all Iraqis."

In New Zealand, Foreign Minister Phil Goff echoed that view.

"Sunni Arabs make up 20 percent of the population and Sunni extremists are at the core of the insurgency," he said. "Ways must be found to involve Sunnis in the drafting of the constitution, which will define power among Iraq's disparate groups, and to give them a stake in the new government."

The vote was to elect a 275-member National Assembly and lawmakers in 18 provincial legislatures. Once results are in, it could take weeks of backroom deals before a prime minister and government are picked by the new assembly.

Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, said it was encouraged by Sunday's turnout among Iraqis.

"Their active participation despite the very difficult situation reflects a commendable determination to decide their own destiny ... and sovereignty in establishing a democratic Iraq," a Foreign Ministry statement said.

In neighboring Malaysia, Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, who chairs the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, said he was "very sad" about a series of attacks that accompanied Sunday's voting. At least 44 people died in suicide and mortar attacks on polling stations, including nine suicide bombers.

"At the time the election is being held, people are still dying," Abdullah told reporters. "There doesn't seem to be any real way of stopping it."

However, Abdullah expressed hope that the poll results would be "credible enough to enable the government to draft a new constitution for Iraq."
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Old 01-31-2005, 09:19 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlKilyu
Quote two or more sources that back that up. Back it up.
You're a fine motha fucka won't you back that ass up.
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Old 01-31-2005, 09:44 AM   #166
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Actually I believe that the fliers, if they existed, are right.If the people continue to vote and overthrow the old ways,then we'll be able to send the troops home, eventually.


From what we've seen, the people are choosing to oust terrorism, unlike some other countries, who praise it and it's 'heroes'.
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:26 AM   #167
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Maybe Sternn is right.

Maybe we are the evil ones and the insurgents are misunderstood!

I mean, just look at this article...

(from http://www.thisislondon.co.uk)
Disabled child in suicide attack
31 January 2005
Terrorists used a disabled child as a suicide bomber on election day, Iraqi interior minister Falah al-Naqib said today.

In all, 44 people were killed in a total of 38 bomb attacks on polling stations. Police at the scene of one the Baghdad blasts said the bomber appeared to have Down's syndrome.

Mr Al-Naqib praised an Iraqi citizen who was killed while preventing one suicide bomber from reaching a crowd of people outside a polling station.
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:55 AM   #168
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"Mr Al-Naqib praised an Iraqi citizen who was killed while preventing one suicide bomber from reaching a crowd of people outside a polling station."

Apparently he saw a guy wearing an explosives belt and tackled him. Fucking incredible.
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:00 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple
"Mr Al-Naqib praised an Iraqi citizen who was killed while preventing one suicide bomber from reaching a crowd of people outside a polling station."

Apparently he saw a guy wearing an explosives belt and tackled him. Fucking incredible.
That is fucking incredible. That speaks VOLUMES about the dedication and bone deep passion the Irai people feel about this first election.

Who here would jump on a suicide bomber for Kerry or Bush voters?

It shows rare courage and conviction and I admire the fuck out of that man and his sacrifice.

I wonder if the Iraqi people are at all disturbed over the frightening new revelation that Sponge Bob Squarepants is the Anti-Christ??

:shock:

Here's the ballot alarmists like Sternn would've had the Iraqi people using.
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Old 01-31-2005, 02:39 PM   #170
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Who here would jump on a suicide bomber for Kerry or Bush voters?
Honestly? I would. I'd run and nab anyone before they ran into a crowd with a bomb.
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Old 01-31-2005, 02:56 PM   #171
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Bwhahahaha!

Hey! It's a ye ol' conspiracy, y'all!

Remember those numerous Kurdish organizations that ruled Northern Iraq for decades before the U.S. ever came in? The ones that are running for political office in Iraq? THEY'RE ALL PUPPETS OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT! It's a ye ol' conspiracy! Ahhh!!! Where's my bar of Irish Spring? I need to cleanse myself!

Ah well. Sternn came here with nothing yesterday. So what's the difference between yesterday and today? He typed words. He still has nothing.

Oh... except for the information on the Iraqi voter turn out, which he got from a highly reliable source:




















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Old 01-31-2005, 03:06 PM   #172
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Oh.

Oh man.

Oh man!

That was sweet!!

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Old 01-31-2005, 04:37 PM   #173
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i'm understanding more and more why sternn wants the u.s. out of iraq so that his al-qaeda and al-zarqawi 'brothers-in-terror' are able to continue their violence against regular, every day iraqis.





these are the people you associate with? idolize? support? sympathize with?
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Old 02-01-2005, 06:23 AM   #174
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First if you haven't been raised in a war zone, then oyu have absolutely no frame of reference. If your parents were not gunned down during a peaceful protest, your brothers shot without trial and your friends run from their homes merely because of the church they went to, you have no way to know how or what I support.

If you have never walked to school while troops laughinly site in their scopes on your chest with red dots, all the time telling you 'its only a matter of time before your old enough for us to shoot your fenian arse!' then you really have no idea what I have been through.

But I'm glad you support that kind of behavoir and are trying to implement it worldwide.

I also give kudos to the corwardly mod who removed my last few posts. What? Reality a little to real for you? Censorship it the tool of oppression. It's also the tool of the weak, who cannot deal with reality.

Here is the points which no one can deny, especially since they haven't happened, but I, having lived through similar, can tell you this:

1. There will never be democracy in Iraq. How can a group of countries, many who not even democratic themselves (ie. palau, liberia, etc) bring something they themselves do not posess to another county.

2. The us will piss away billions and put itself in a financial crisis with the continued war. The same way they did in Nam, which lead to the resession through the seventies. Those in school there now will pay the bill in the next few generations.

3. Americans will die, for no reason. Once the people wake up and realise they are fighting a pointless war and pissing away money, they will get angry. They also will lash out at the government and they will pull out the troops, much like is happening now in Northern Ireland. They have this month alonh removed 5,000 troops from the belfast area and reopened the mountains for hiking - the mountains have been closed since 1921.

4. Once the war crimes come out, america will really look bad. Thing of what we have seen thus far - its alot like crime in the streets. IF the police arrest a large amount of drug dealers, you know there are even more they havent caught out there. Same with war crimes. For every one you find, there are a half dozen more waiting to come out later.

5. The troops are demoralised. They will themselves begin to leave soon. Tis why the army has the stop loss program in place.

6. The insugents as well as the 'terrorists' are not oppposed to 'freedom' as bush continues to claim. If so, then why don't they attack canada, finland, iceland, ireland, luxemborg, holland, or one of the other democractic nations they can simple drive to? Why? Because the foreign policies of those nations do not involve their own personal resources and oil interest in anyway. They also don't give 12 billion a year to the israelis for guns and bombs.

7. The Iraq war will be yet another blemish on the countyr of america. I mean, over 20,000 civilians, mostly women and childenmr have been killed by the united states in the name of freedom. I bet if you ask the relatives of those people what they think (I have) you won't see the rainbows and roses they talk about on the news.

But anyway, time is the great equaliser. I look towards the future as then we will see who is right, as this topic is basically not aguing if what the americans are doing is right, its arguing what they are TRYING to do is right. Time will tell. If in two years I am wrong, well let me be the first to say I'd be happy being wrong. Plus if I'm wrong I'll fly to ground zero and kiss your arse in front of God and everyone plus give you a hour to round up a crowd.

Of course what I, and most of the world sees coming is another vietnam sized failure, and more bodies bags being shipped home. But we will see...

Slán
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Old 02-01-2005, 08:52 AM   #175
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What the shit!?!?! Why does everyone view the IRA as a bunch of terrorist scum sucking shitbags and not Super Hero Freedom Fighters!?!?

It's another ye ol' conspiracy!
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