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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #201
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I honestly don't understand why anyone believes in any religion. Talking as someone who has never had faith and as someone who spent a long time looking into different religions and never found something that I could honestly identify with, I truly don't understand it. I was born free of religious faith and I'll die free of it and that is something I am quite happy with.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #202
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Hey BP. I've got this uh... personal problem that I don't want to elaborate on.

Being as your faith is actually real, can you tell me which god I'm suppose to have a ritual to to fix this problem? I mean, I'd go to the doctor but they don't know shit because they're shit scientists.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #203
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You know, I've been gone for a while, doin' important shit, so I've missed most of this, but I wanted to point something out:

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Originally Posted by burningplain View Post
And actually yes it is how sicence. You miss a key principle of science, you draw conclusions from the evidence you see, by doing so you interpret them to your world view. I have drawn my conclusions based on how I see the evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemorrhoids
And actually yes it is how sicence. You miss a key principle of science...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerRoids
And actually yes it is how sicence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HargraveClaws
sicence.
You accidentally do the Englich there, Hairypalms?

Seriously, why is anyone even talking to this moron? You people should be embarrassed this thread has gone on as long as it did. Immolating Field is clearly some sort of Uber-idiot. He may have been genetically modified to test our reason. He is the atheist's version of a natural disaster: The only way this level of stupidity is possible because some dipshit engineered it.

I mean look at this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweatyfield
Oh and magical hammer... What if Thor's magical hammer is the thing that causes the build up of electrical charge in clouds? We know the cause. But the thing is that most divine beings, by their very nature move outside the human understanding of the universe.
He just implied that my fucking lamp may be ultimately powered by a an ethereal heavy-metal rocker's oversized hardware.

You Sir, are an idiot.

You may even be living proof, that there is a god, and he hates us, because I can't believe someone of your limited intellect hasn't been eaten by wolves, or forgotten how to breath and died as a result. You clearly have the intellectual prowess, of an upside-down turtle.

Now go home and think what you've done.

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Old 02-09-2012, 06:50 AM   #204
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Ever heard of a typo fuckwit? No well then do some research.
As for the rest of you whom seem to think that because I hold views different to yours you have every right to mock me. You are the reason I despise our species. Judgemental bastards. The species is doomed as long as fuckers like you exist, judging without knowing. Insulting with out reason or cause. I wasn't the one who started the insult chain here. Read the opening page of this thread. Rational debate does not involve insults, which is how the whole fucking thread started thanks to you lot.

So you know, if you want to try and blame me for how this thread turned out I turn you to AshleyO's first post on this thread and ask how it is not insulting?

Fuck the lot of you, judgemental, self-obsessed scum of the earth. I have no idea why I bother attempting intelligent discourse on religion with people who start foaming at the mouth at the slightest hint of a differing opinion from their own.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:24 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by burningplain View Post
Ever heard of a typo fuckwit? No well then do some research.
Nah, dude. That was a total fuck up. Don't forget to burn your sage to cleanse your shame.

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Originally Posted by herp derpison
As for the rest of you whom seem to think that because I hold views different to yours you have every right to mock me.
Well yeah, we do. We're saying water is 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. Then you're disagreeing with that and demanding that we give you concessions for being wrong. You've been compounding your stupidity. You're like stupid origami over here. Mockery is healthy. Maybe you'll learn from it or continue being stupid. We can only hope you stop being so stupid.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Dipshit Macgruder
You are the reason I despise our species. Judgemental bastards. The species is doomed as long as fuckers like you exist, judging without knowing.
Not only have you been judging without knowing (denying science, trying to say this is how reality is when it isn't), but you're demanding that we sleep in your bed of unreason. You've been judgmental AND stupid AND childish.

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Originally Posted by Bunting Plane
Insulting with out reason or cause. I wasn't the one who started the insult chain here. Read the opening page of this thread. Rational debate does not involve insults, which is how the whole fucking thread started thanks to you lot.
Rational debate over irrational beliefs. You didn't want debate. You didn't want inquiry. You wanted to spout off what you think you believe without having to explain it or justify it. You wanted everyone to just pat each other on the back and cheapen what they believe by telling each other that it's cool that we all came to different conclusions on what is real. Yeah, no. Fuck that. It's cowardly and dishonest.

You know what? If it bothers you so much... then why don't you pray about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchild Mcbabyson the Infantile
So you know, if you want to try and blame me for how this thread turned out I turn you to AshleyO's first post on this thread and ask how it is not insulting?
"I tried to talk about some hippy dippy new age bullshit beliefs and I didn't manage to get any friends!"

First world problems, man. What can we do to solve them?

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Originally Posted by The most profound thinker of our time
Fuck the lot of you, judgemental, self-obsessed scum of the earth. I have no idea why I bother attempting intelligent discourse on religion with people who start foaming at the mouth at the slightest hint of a differing opinion from their own.
There's not intelligent discourse about religion. Not every opinion is equal. Not every belief is valid.

I can't help that you're mad, bro.

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Old 02-09-2012, 07:28 AM   #206
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LoL!! I went back to my first post here. I used the word stupid at least 2 times. Other than that, I had a very good explanation as to why Buttplug wanted to believe or did and the next thing we know, he starts getting pissy.

Go cry, Burningplain.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:39 AM   #207
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Okay so I realised recently that I had hijacked a thread on the subject of philosophy (the study of ethics & morality) to discuss theology (the nature of God/if there is a god or not). Alan, feel free to call me an arse for doing so. Also please restart the philosophy thread. I'm interested in learning what you think on various topics.
Oh wait... wait for it, this is delicious.

Quote:
Now to the purpose of this thread. I have recently found myself leaning towards the a "neopagan" theology and am currently joining the pagan society at my university in the hopes of finding a branch of neopaganism that suits me.
Well fuck what's true, everyone. Burningplain likes to live by what suits him. There is the delicious hilarity of his spiritual sincerity. BP, your spirituality is a cheap whore. A branch of neopaganism that suits you. Child you aint that important.

Quote:
For those you wondering why I make a distinction between paganism and neopaganism, the answer is simple. The Latin meaning of the word Pagan is something equivalent to Yokel and was used to talk about anyone or any culture that was not Roman. Neopaganism is actually a massive movement towards a group of religions of Gaulic, Germanic & Celtic origin.
No, it's all derived from Hippie LSD fever dreams and no, nobody cares.

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But I am interested by the beliefs of others. What do you believe about God? Do you believe in the existance of a god? If not why not?
If you do Believe in God? What do you believe about is the Nature of God?
Lulzy. You invited us to tell you why we thought you were wrong here.

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This is a thread for the discussion of theology, of the concept of the divine and of the afterlife.
Inviting criticism again.

Quote:
I'm not interested in why you think Religion is stupid, if you want to talk about that go talk about it on one of Pothead's many irritating threads where he basically attempts to shove his version of the divine down everyone else's throat.
Oh, okay. My mistake. This thread was meant for believers only. Not for those that don't believe. Then again... earlier in your post you invited us god slayers into the discussion. So which is it, BP.

Quote:
I'm interested in what people believe and why they believe it.
I still believe you're stupid and I've proven why I have this belief with empirical evidence. I win.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:28 AM   #208
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I could be wrong but I think what BP was trying to exemplify, in using Thor's hammer, is how humans create metaphors to describe things they don't have words for. Today we know that Thor's hammer is thunder and lightening, but thousands of years ago people didn't understand it from a scientific perspective so they associated it with what they understood, and this is true for countless examples all throughout time. I don't think you'd have an easy time finding anyone who actually believes in Thor or his hammer these days, though you might.

Ashley - stones, crystals, metals and various incense have been used for as long as man has walked the earth for their medicinal and therapeutic properties and qualities, from memory retention to conduction energy and storing information. Science has proven that many of those stones and metals serve very specific purposes in medicine. Science has also proven that scent, above any other sense, has the strongest psychological influence. Scents have the power to cause both excitement and relaxation, and everything in between. Above sound or sight, memories are most closely related to scent. So it's really not surprising at all why incense, stones, metals and crystals have played a vital role in religion for as long as religion has existed, and continue to do so. Only now they play roles in science and psychology as well as religion.

Spirituality is something that is ingrained in most people - statistically, about 95 to 98% of the world's population believes in some form of God or Gods. You can look it up yourself if you disagree. A belief in God does not require any sort of religious ceremony, though the two are most often connected. There are very peaceful religions who keep to themselves and there are very aggressive religions who believe that it is their mission to force their beliefs on others, even to the point of death. That's where martyrs come in. At least some of the religions in the world today believe that their Gods are not just spirits or entities but actual physical beings from other planets or realms. The Sumerians believed that their Gods came from another planet and created man to be slaves. Many Native Americans also believe that their Gods came from other planets, as do many tribes in Africa. Associating Gods with spirits and entities is actually a more Judeo-Christian concept and isn't nearly as old as other religions.

Taking on the religions of the world is a pretty stupendous feat, especially considering that religion, beyond anything else, has been the backbone of human civilization. You can look only at the war and suffering it's caused if that's all you want to see, but you're failing to see all the good and charity it's done as well. Are you prepared to tell a Muslim he's not getting his 70 virgins in Heaven because God does not exist, and he's really just a pile of mud that disappears when he dies? (I don't know if Muslims actually believe that or if it's just a big stereo type, I'm just using it as an example). People, for the most part, need faith to give them a sense of purpose, and something to fall back on when life goes to shit. It is a pretty lousy reason, true, but without faith in a higher power, without a notion that there is something to look forward to beyond the suffering of the physical world, I think a lot of people would just give up hope of life ever really having any purpose. What is the point of life, if there is nothing after life?

In terms of race and anthropology, from the bit of reading I've done on it the last few days I can see why ethnicity is considered today to be mostly a social construct, but it doesn't eliminate race as an important biological factor. Anthropology can determine the race of an individual accurately 95% or more of the time, thousands of years after nothing but bones are left. The three primary races listed are caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid. I'd imagine everyone today is some combination of those three. I thought there were four, but apparently there's only three.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:44 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-deviant-x View Post
I could be wrong but I think what BP was trying to exemplify, in using Thor's hammer, is how humans create metaphors to describe things they don't have words for. Today we know that Thor's hammer is thunder and lightening, but thousands of years ago people didn't understand it from a scientific perspective so they associated it with what they understood, and this is true for countless examples all throughout time. I don't think you'd have an easy time finding anyone who actually believes in Thor or his hammer these days, though you might.
The metaphors are immaterial and those metaphors are the parts that ARE NOT important when it comes to understanding our world. Thor doesn't exist. There's no reason to keep this dead god on life support because it makes BP feel good.

Quote:
Ashley - stones, crystals, metals and various incense have been used for as long as man has walked the earth for their medicinal and therapeutic properties and qualities, from memory retention to conduction energy and storing information. Science has proven that many of those stones and metals serve very specific purposes in medicine. Science has also proven that scent, above any other sense, has the strongest psychological influence. Scents have the power to cause both excitement and relaxation, and everything in between. Above sound or sight, memories are most closely related to scent. So it's really not surprising at all why incense, stones, metals and crystals have played a vital role in religion for as long as religion has existed, and continue to do so. Only now they play roles in science and psychology as well as religion.
Yeah because a handful of Quartz is somehow going to balance out someone's thetans so that the aliens wont devour their souls later. No, I get you about that. But that's NOT magic. I think everyone here can understand why certain metals and minerals are important in chemistry, medicine, and technology. But trying to equate something like magic and alchemy to the sciences of medicine and chemistry is retarded, which is what new age bullshit insists on. You don't cleanse a room of evil spirits with rubbing two crystals together in your hands. That's nonsense.

Devils are dead, but insanity and mental sickness are very real. Curses are superstition. Diseases are real. Handfuls of gemstones don't rebuke evil spirits or balance chi. Metals and minerals can help us create technologies such as computers, cars, and airplanes, and space travel, and pharmaceuticals.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:46 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-deviant-x View Post
I could be wrong but I think what BP was trying to exemplify, in using Thor's hammer, is how humans create metaphors to describe things they don't have words for. Today we know that Thor's hammer is thunder and lightening, but thousands of years ago people didn't understand it from a scientific perspective so they associated it with what they understood, and this is true for countless examples all throughout time. I don't think you'd have an easy time finding anyone who actually believes in Thor or his hammer these days, though you might.
No. Read the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burningsensation
Oh and magical hammer... What if Thor's magical hammer is the thing that causes the build up of electrical charge in clouds? We know the cause. But the thing is that most divine beings, by their very nature move outside the human understanding of the universe.
He is saying quite literally that maybe Thor's hammer causes electricity to build up in clouds, because Thor moves outside the human understanding of the universe.

The kid is a retard.

Quote:
Ashley - stones, crystals, metals and various incense have been used for as long as man has walked the earth for their medicinal and therapeutic properties and qualities, from memory retention to conduction energy and storing information. Science has proven that many of those stones and metals serve very specific purposes in medicine. Science has also proven that scent, above any other sense, has the strongest psychological influence. Scents have the power to cause both excitement and relaxation, and everything in between. Above sound or sight, memories are most closely related to scent. So it's really not surprising at all why incense, stones, metals and crystals have played a vital role in religion for as long as religion has existed, and continue to do so. Only now they play roles in science and psychology as well as religion.
1) Can we see some sources on this? Because you're making some pretty broad claims here, verging on pseudo science and general quackery.

2) Even assuming your facts ARE correct, this doesn't lend credence to the argument that gods/spirituality are real or relevant - quite the opposite, it provides a naturalistic explanation for "spiritual behavior" people aren't communing with the gods, or reaching a higher plane, they're just talking to themselves and doping on primitive medicines/placebos.


Quote:
Spirituality is something that is ingrained in most people - statistically, about 95 to 98% of the world's population believes in some form of God or Gods. You can look it up yourself if you disagree. A belief in God does not require any sort of religious ceremony, though the two are most often connected.
Yes, I get you. Spirituality is engrained in most people. However, just because most people believe in a god/gods/are spiritual does not mean there's any truth to any of it. Spirituality is most likely a natural effect of our evolution: it's a misfiring of our pattern-seeking behavior crossed with an over-developed "sharing" urge, and need for community.

A belief in god/gods does not require ceremony, but ritual is an important aspect of ALL religion and I challenge you to provide me with a single religion which has no rituals whatsoever. Ritual is important for inducing the emotional experience connected with "spirituality" without it, you can't have the emotional highs that are are the religious experience.

Quote:
There are very peaceful religions who keep to themselves and there are very aggressive religions who believe that it is their mission to force their beliefs on others, even to the point of death. That's where martyrs come in.
There are very few "peaceful religions who keep to themselves" Many (like Buddhism) appear peaceful on the surface, but can and do very easily descend into violence and inhumanity. Buddhism very easily lends itself to fascism, which is why during WW2 Japanese Buddhists not only embraced fascism but lent themselves to the doctrine of war and extermination of the enemies of the Emperor. Similarly, the seemingly benign Shinto paganism lead to a horrifying cult of personality around the Japanese emperor, (who was himself, a living God) which lead to imperialism, war, ra.pe, and the eventual needless death of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians by their own hands. BlisteredPalm's "neo-paganism" is based around fantasy novels and the druidic cults of pre-Christian Europe, which among other things, practiced brutal human sacrifice.

I'm not going to rule out the possibility of a benign religion, as I don't like to speak in absolutes, but by and large, you show me a religion that is totally peaceful and I'll show you a religion that you don't know enough about.

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At least some of the religions in the world today believe that their Gods are not just spirits or entities but actual physical beings from other planets or realms.
By definition, those are not gods, they're aliens and they are certainly not something to be worshiped.

Quote:
The Sumerians believed that their Gods came from another planet and created man to be slaves. Many Native Americans also believe that their Gods came from other planets, as do many tribes in Africa. Associating Gods with spirits and entities is actually a more Judeo-Christian concept and isn't nearly as old as other religions.
Source please. I've studied native American history pretty extensively and I've never heard of what you're asserting.

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Taking on the religions of the world is a pretty stupendous feat, especially considering that religion, beyond anything else, has been the backbone of human civilization. You can look only at the war and suffering it's caused if that's all you want to see, but you're failing to see all the good and charity it's done as well.
I absolutely acknowledge all the good and charity that has come from religion. Religion is our first attempt at morality, our first attempt at philosophy, our first attempt at healthcare, but because it is our first it is also our worst. We now have better, more elegant, more beautiful, more useful things to fill these needs. Every single good thing that religion does, can be done better by something else, every single good thing that Jesus said we have without Jesus, so why keep Jesus around? Why keep around something so flawed, so inadequate, which has such potential to ruin subvert, and end so many lives?

Why keep around alchemy when we have chemistry? Why keep around astrology when we have astronomy? Why keep around snake oil when we have medicine.

Literally the only answer you can give is "It makes me feel good" and if you only want to feel good, go shoot your arm full of Heroine, I guarantee it will feel better than the greatest religious experience you've ever had.

Quote:
Are you prepared to tell a Muslim he's not getting his 70 virgins in Heaven because God does not exist
In a word? Yes. Also, some Muslims are ready to kill me, my loved ones and themselves for those 70 virgins (or perhaps crystal-clear raisins.)

Quote:
and he's really just a pile of mud that disappears when he dies?
Unlike religion, I don't make positive claims about the afterlife or lack thereof. If you ask me about the afterlife I'll say "I don't know, and neither do you, and neither does he."

Quote:
People, for the most part, need faith to give them a sense of purpose, and something to fall back on when life goes to shit. It is a pretty lousy reason, true, but without faith in a higher power, without a notion that there is something to look forward to beyond the suffering of the physical world, I think a lot of people would just give up hope of life ever really having any purpose. What is the point of life, if there is nothing after life?
I don't know. That's a question you'll have to answer for yourself. I do know that allowing people to believe what is overwhelmingly more likely to be an idiotic lie, for what you have admitted is a "pretty lousy reason" is stupid, dangerous, cowardly and above all an abdication of critical responsibility.

It may seem cruel to take away someone's blankie, but guess what? Kids have to grow up some time, especially when that blankie is likely to lead them to at least waste a great deal of their limited time and resources on this earth, and at worse lead them to politically opress and/or murder me and those I care about.

Your blankie isn't worth that much, so put it down.

Quote:
In terms of race and anthropology, from the bit of reading I've done on it the last few days I can see why ethnicity is considered today to be mostly a social construct, but it doesn't eliminate race as an important biological factor. Anthropology can determine the race of an individual accurately 95% or more of the time, thousands of years after nothing but bones are left. The three primary races listed are caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid. I'd imagine everyone today is some combination of those three. I thought there were four, but apparently there's only three.
This is incorrect and also racist. All human life came out of Africa. We're all black. The superficial differences you see are a result of genetic bottlenecks, race does not exist on a genetic level.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:58 PM   #211
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The idea of "three/four primary races" is really, really, really old and isn't taken seriously in anthropology anymore, and hasn't for a long time. Either you're reading something ancient, or something racist that likes to quote old and outdated material. Its eventually been discounted as quackery and totally unreliable:

Quote:
lthough craniofacial race categorization based on skull indices is unambiguous races categorized using alternative methods yield different groups, making them non-concordant. Neither will the method pin-point geographic origins reliably due to variation in skulls within a geographic region. The United States has group ancestries from geographically distant locations which have generally remained endogamous. As more migrate and Americans become more racially mixed such craniofacial identification is of reduced utility. About one-third of "white" Americans have detectable African DNA markers and about five percent of "black" Americans have no detectable "negroid" traits at all, craniofacial or genetic. Given three Americans who self-identify and are socially accepted as white, black and Hispanic, and given that they have precisely the same Afro-European mix of ancestries (one "mulatto" grandparent), there is no objective test that will identify their US endogamous group membership without an interview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrop..._human_origins

Seriously, go read some Gloria Anzaldua, it'll do you good.

Fun fact: Last year scientists confirmed that pretty much everyone except sub-Saharan Africans have Neanderthal in their ancestry. From that perspective, black Africans are the most human of all humans. Its a funny flip from the old belief that Africans were primitive and more like apes than proper white men.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #212
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Saya, hold on one second.

What do you mean Sub-Saharan Africans have no Neanderthal heritage? I've really only got a very solid elementary understanding of evolution. How exactly is it possible that there are human beings who in fact don't have Neanderthal heritage and some do? I'm going to probably make a terrible ass of myself, but that almost sounds like the Sub-Saharan Africans come from a different animal.

Can you elaborate, because I'm sure I'd make a stupid assumption due to my lack of knowledge on evolution.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:04 PM   #213
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I can only give you what I remember from a class about 4 years ago so there may be some stuff left out. Neanderthals or homo neanderthalensis existed at the same time as early modern humans (classified as homo sapiens sapiens) but are not the same, in some cases it is defined as a subspecies of homo sapiens others define it as a separate species. Homo sapiens idaltu and homo rhodesiensis are other now extinct subspecies of homo sapiens but I have no idea about whether or not there was any breeding between either of them and other homo sapiens.

Essentially all of these guys share a common ancestor with us (although they split off at different points) but none of them are actually genetic predecessors of homo sapiens sapiens, we were just the most biologically successful and that is why we are still in existence and they have died out.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:06 PM   #214
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No I believe, if I read the article right, that sub-Saharan Africans were further down the evolutionary line than other homo-sapiens. They had less of a link to Neanderthal not a absolute non-relation.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:12 PM   #215
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Saya, hold on one second.

What do you mean Sub-Saharan Africans have no Neanderthal heritage? I've really only got a very solid elementary understanding of evolution. How exactly is it possible that there are human beings who in fact don't have Neanderthal heritage and some do? I'm going to probably make a terrible ass of myself, but that almost sounds like the Sub-Saharan Africans come from a different animal.

Can you elaborate, because I'm sure I'd make a stupid assumption due to my lack of knowledge on evolution.
The neanderthals had a different geographical distribution to modern humans, there was interbreeding in europe and the middle east but not much of anywhere else. Apparently neanderthals contribute 4% of our genome or something, idk.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:24 PM   #216
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No I believe, if I read the article right, that sub-Saharan Africans were further down the evolutionary line than other homo-sapiens. They had less of a link to Neanderthal not a absolute non-relation.
Er what? I'm further down the evolutionary line but that wouldn't mean that I have less of a link to Neanderthals. They were just in a geographical location where there weren't any Neanderthals so there wasn't any breeding between the two groups and they continued to be more or less separate from the groups that did breed with Neanderthals until fairly recently.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:08 PM   #217
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Saya, hold on one second.

What do you mean Sub-Saharan Africans have no Neanderthal heritage? I've really only got a very solid elementary understanding of evolution. How exactly is it possible that there are human beings who in fact don't have Neanderthal heritage and some do? I'm going to probably make a terrible ass of myself, but that almost sounds like the Sub-Saharan Africans come from a different animal.

Can you elaborate, because I'm sure I'd make a stupid assumption due to my lack of knowledge on evolution.
Neanderthals weren't human, as Solumina already pointed out, but they were the last other hominid species. We're like the last unicorn right now. Neanderthals kinda looked like Gimli and loved to live in colder climates, so they haven't met sub-Saharan Africans since they left Africa a long long time ago (before they were technically modern humans). Evolution wise, they split off from homo sapiens and are regarded as a bit of a step backwards, although god knows it might have been daddy issues that made us think that and I'm sure white supremists will try to frame this discovery as if its the most awesome thing evar. Regardless, they were not successful, and they are gone, and we are the last of our kind. But Neanderthals live on inside each of us, because it gets awfully lonely in the winter time and they were enough like us that we could interbreed with them.

I remember some years ago when they mapped the genome of a mammoth there was speculation that it could be done with a Neanderthal, and we could possibly clone one. Which led to a lot of hypothetical debates about, would we have a human surrogate mother or a chimp? If Neanderthals survived, would we be good friends with them or throw them in the zoos?
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #218
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Er what? I'm further down the evolutionary line but that wouldn't mean that I have less of a link to Neanderthals. They were just in a geographical location where there weren't any Neanderthals so there wasn't any breeding between the two groups and they continued to be more or less separate from the groups that did breed with Neanderthals until fairly recently.
Yeah, I have cheese curd brain. I get it now.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #219
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Saya I love how you worded that, thanks for the giggle.

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Yeah, I have cheese curd brain.
Don't worry, happens to me all the time.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:07 AM   #220
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1) Can we see some sources on this? Because you're making some pretty broad claims here, verging on pseudo science and general quackery.
Homeopathic medicine. Of course not usually supported by the FDA (cause the money's in the come-back, not the cure), but not everyone agrees with having man-made chemicals injected into their bodies that often tend to cause more harm than good. I've never heard of anyone getting anal leakage from meditating with stones or a session of acupuncture. You can search the bit on scent yourself.

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I do know that allowing people to believe what is overwhelmingly more likely to be an idiotic lie
This is where you lose me, and lose all credit. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, a free society does not dictate what it's people are "allowed" to believe. You don't agree with the first amendment, clearly. Otherwise you wouldn't be using words and phrases like "allowing people to believe," as though you should have some say in what someone else chooses to do with their lives and bodies. You serve no purpose in this country so long as your views are about controlling what others chose to say or believe in. You are no different than the muslim extremist or the christian evangelist, and the fact that you can't see that only strengthens the evidence for it. You are an enemy.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:31 AM   #221
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Deviant, to quote Tim Minchin on homeopathy: 'alternative medicine' is medicine that has either not been proven to work, or been proven not to work. Because you know what they call medicine that has been proven to work?... MEDICINE.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:38 AM   #222
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Homeopathy states that water remembers what it has been in contact with. So they sell you bottles of water that once long ago touched something that might help. That's highly immoral quackery. If someone wants to waste their money on it its their prerogative, but there have been cases of people depending solely on homeopathy and dying.

And I know my psychologist encourages meditation. They're not all about pushing drugs, she's more than happy to point me to methods to help me reduce anxiety instead. And you know, at least medicine lets you know that anal leakage might be a risk. Did you know St. John's Wort is effective in fighting depression? But what isn't said on sites that sell them or on the bottles is that if you're on hormonal birth control, it can reduce its effectiveness. I've seen rue being sold without a warning that it can cause miscarriage.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:51 AM   #223
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What about the people who rely on proper medications just to lead a semi normal life? I somehow doubt that water that once touched some plants and rocks is going to stop me from hearing voices the way my anti psychotic medication does.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:45 PM   #224
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Homeopathic medicine. Of course not usually supported by the FDA (cause the money's in the come-back, not the cure), but not everyone agrees with having man-made chemicals injected into their bodies that often tend to cause more harm than good.
If you want natural remedies then look to pharmacognosy, it is like herbalism but with actual science involved, just make sure you go with someone reputable who displays their qualification as there are plenty of quacks who claim to practice pharmacognosy but have no education in the field.

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I've never heard of anyone getting anal leakage from meditating with stones or a session of acupuncture.
No, I've also never had a doctor who took issue with either of those practices, they just thought that either of them should be part of a comprehensive treatment. That being said ginkgo biloba extract has been reported to cause spontaneous bleeding, there have been cases of aloe-induced toxic hepatitis, and dietary supplements containing kelp have been known to cause transient hyperthyroidism, so it isn't like natural remedies don't cause issues and those are just direct side effects, once you start getting into drug interactions they can become straight up deadly, especially since many people don't mention them to their doctor.

Oh and their production standards don't come close to what is required for medicines, their potency is not consistent, and they could have high levels of contaminants.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #225
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If you want natural remedies then look to pharmacognosy,.
Never heard of that, but it sounds like something worth looking into.

And all of these examples given are good to keep in mind. Nothing should be ingested without learning about it first. For every plant out there there's bound to be somebody who has an allergic or adverse reaction to it. Plenty of people are allergic to aloe.

I could get eaten by a shark while swimming on the beach to treat my psoriasis (i have it on my knees and elbows), but that still is the best method I've found for treating it, and nothing any doctor has ever tried to do has made any difference with it. A few trips to the beach however, and the shit goes away for a couple years, like it was never there at all. something i discovered by accident. A friend of mine gets it really bad over his face and chest but goes to a hot spring once every 4 or 5 years up in the mountains and it clears it up.

But my point is not to try putting alternative medicine above scientific medicine, as they both have their drawbacks depending on the situation. The point is that some people, quite a lot of people actually, don't believe in going the scientific medicine route because they don't want man-made chemicals in their bodies and would rather take their chances with the holistic approach, which is entirely their right to do, whether it is for spiritual purposes or otherwise. There are people who refuse to even take aspirin because they don't like the fact that it's processed by man. Regardless of how crazy that may be, it's their body, their choice. There are people who have not been successful with scientific medicine but have been with homeopathic medicine. There's a show running now on one of the cable networks that is all about people going to various parts of the world looking for alternative means to treat their ailments because clinical science has failed to do so. Some are successful others aren't so much. The episode I saw not too long ago was about some guys going to china, drinking snakes blood and craziness like that, but it seems to be a big market in china, so they must be doing something right. Traditional Chinese medicine is notorious for being able to find remedies for things western science is still kind'a clueless about. I'm sure it has its down side plenty. Maybe a lot of it is a placebo effect, which holds its own merits. Mind over matter and all that.
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