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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right."
-H.L. Menken |
10-26-2011, 09:10 PM
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#76
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Sounds like things are getting heated, a reminder to people involved with Occupy movements in the US, the National Lawyer Guild has set up hotlines to give legal advice should you fear arrest (and really, you should look at all their stuff even if you don't right now, better safe than sorry), and of course if you have already been arrested:
http://www.nlg.org/occupy/
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11-15-2011, 02:06 PM
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#77
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
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So, the police raided Zucotti park at 1:30 am last night. They showed up unannounced (Guess they learned their lesson from the sanitation stand-off) citing "fire-hazard" concerns. They wouldn't let any press in, going so far as to deploy helicopters to prevent news coverage from the air, demanded they leave, and if they didn't dragged people out of their beds, and out of the park. A couple of my friends got arrested.
It looks like they're going to let folks back in...but without their tents and blankets, though news is still sparse.
Edit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... 94313.html
There's a major march planned on the 17th. It looks like we'll be congregating in areas like Wall St. and Foley Square, then hit the trains for a few hours to talk to people and disseminate our message directly to the rest of New York. then, around 5pm there's going to be a march to the Brooklyn bridge.
People are PISSED. It turns out Bloomberg may have dumped gas on a fire.
My buddy is tweeting the whole thing here
https://twitter.com/#!/johnknefel
Shit's getting real people.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
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11-16-2011, 05:31 AM
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#78
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Westfield, NJ
Posts: 25
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I've been thinking of a lot about the Occupy movment and I think that there is something that they have been butting up against that nobody wants to talk about.
I'm not sure if I can articulate it well but here's a shot.
In any population you can divide people up into three groups. People that by the rules of the population are "high achievers", people that are "average" and people that for whatever reason either cannot or do not work with the rules of the population. These categories, btw, are almost completely arbitrary. For example, in the middle ages banking was considered pretty questionable and the idea of charging interest was considered a very serious sin(usury). Today, as we all know, bankers and interest chargers are "high achievers" by the rules of our population.
The thing is that for whatever reason, the population of the United States seems to produce a whole lot of people that either won't or can't live by the rules in the population and, unlike other populations, we don't seem to have a really good way to deal with that.
I think that the Occupy movements have attracted those people who can't or won't live by the rules of the population as they currently stand. I think this is just as imporant to call attention to as the extreme income inequality because we as a population need to see the problem of the millions(yes, millions) of people that our civilization can't or won't use.
Hopefully that made sense. It's been a long week.
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11-16-2011, 01:02 PM
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#79
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
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Wraith, I kinda get what you're saying. I'm irritated at the 'Occupy Oakland' fuckers because they're vandalizing and basically making it dangerous for some of my friends that live there to walk the streets and get things like....heart medication.
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen
...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone
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11-16-2011, 01:19 PM
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#80
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Westfield, NJ
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grausamkeit
Wraith, I kinda get what you're saying. I'm irritated at the 'Occupy Oakland' fuckers because they're vandalizing and basically making it dangerous for some of my friends that live there to walk the streets and get things like....heart medication.
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Yeah, it's something that I read about(can't find the article, I'm afraid), but the fact that the whole Occupy thing is so super open is one of the two things that makes it challenging. That and the fact that democracy the way they practice it is almost as dull as watching paint dry.
As far as 'Occupy Oakland'(and the other Occupy *.* in California, now that I think about it), I have to say I don't get it. About 90% of what I read about them confuses and, to be frank, scares me a little. Even though I felt fairly welcome at OWS, I got the distinct impression that Occupy *.* sites in California would not want me within a mile of them if for no other reason than I think that the whole "no drugs" thing is a pretty good idea. I can't find this article either but I read that there was a whole lot of screaming guys that took over a General Assembly about a week or two ago over the right to use cannabis in the camp.
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11-16-2011, 04:23 PM
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#81
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
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As a back up plan I'm working on some mock-ups for x-deviant-x's statue I promised him.
If you're out there, Despanan, hope you stay safe. I guess I over-estimated the establishment's capacity to manage this. The powers that be are mishandling this to a cartoonish degree, and your allusion to throwing gas on a fire is terribly apt.
Good luck.
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11-17-2011, 02:55 PM
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#82
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 332
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the establishment is managing this perfectly. This is exactly what they want, like I said before.
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11-17-2011, 07:16 PM
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#83
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sugar Hill
Posts: 3,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-deviant-x
the establishment is managing this perfectly. This is exactly what they want, like I said before.
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No it's not. The news is saying they're managing it well. I've looked in those police officer's eyes, I've watch folks from Wall Street respond. They're both scared SHITLESS.
I've been out protesting since 6am.
First impressions? Anyone who says this movement is toothless or disorganized is 100% wrong. We delayed the New York stock exchange, as we said we would, and when we joined with the unions and the students? Jesus Christ, there were at least 10,000 people in that crowd. At the beginning of the day I worried that the police would brutalize us, by the end of the day I don't think anything could've stopped that crowd short of tanks (Which I'm not ruling out at this point).
Early in the day I watched the police kick the crap out of at least 24 people, and arrest the Wikileaks van for not having his headlights on (while letting car after car doing the same thing pass by). By the end of it I looked out over the students, and the unions, and yes even the churches and I though: this isn't a protest, this is an army.
I can tell everyone, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that pretty much every major news source is lying through their teeth about OWS. The people are angry. Bloomberg dumped gas on a fire, and this is just the beginning. This is not a movement which will wither and die. This is a movement which is going to grow and grow.
Clearing out Zucotti was about the dumbest thing Bloomberg could've done. All he managed to do was galvanize us and push the fence-sitters in with our crowd. This movement is way too big for Zucotti, and it's only going to get bigger.
I'm really too tired to go into detail right now, but DAMN. I never thought I'd see this. It's pretty emotional to see our countrymen standing up in this way.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite
I promote radical change through my actions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
I have chugged more than ten epic boners.
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11-18-2011, 05:47 AM
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#84
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 708
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The reality of large-scale protests is ALWAYS overwhelmingly different from their representation in mainstream media. They rarely become a blip on the middle England media radar unless anything goes down that allows the police to cry hooliganism. That, at least, is something the UK has in common with the States.
Stay safe out there, guys.
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11-18-2011, 06:02 AM
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#85
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckooTuli
Stay safe out there, guys.
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Seconded!
Also, it is true that you guys are having a real worldwide effect. There are Occupy protests all over the world. I am in Australia and we have a number of them happening here, and while there are problems that I have with the Occupy movement, I do support what you are all doing and want to encourage you!
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11-18-2011, 01:35 PM
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#86
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Stay safe! And to agree with Miss A, it certainly has had a world wide effect. The Occupy Newfoundland protest originally was only a few people planning on staying a few days, but they're planning to camp out for the winter if they have to.
And not to distract from the serious serious stuff, but have you guys noticed companies trying to capitalize on the movement?
http://occupypatriarchy.org/2011/11/18/oh-maybelline/
BECAUSE THE ONLY THING WOMEN ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IS CARCINOGENIC LIP BALM.
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11-18-2011, 05:47 PM
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#87
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
BECAUSE THE ONLY THING WOMEN ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IS CARCINOGENIC LIP BALM.
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Damn wimminz! Having the right priorities and shit!
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11-18-2011, 06:12 PM
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#88
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe
Damn wimminz! Having the right priorities and shit!
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Yeah, we're all evil like that.
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen
...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone
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11-19-2011, 07:31 AM
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#89
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 729
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There are still a few people hanging in there with Occupy Melbourne, but the cops have now made everyone take down 'structures' (all the cover and shelter, even though it's pissing down lately) and coming around at night to roust people.
(Meanwhile, Catholics harass abortion clinics daily with impunity and Tony Abbott eggs Andrew Bolt on with his "free speech". )
Hopefully numbers rise soon, there's always better attendance in fine weather.
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11-19-2011, 07:38 AM
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#90
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 729
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Oh god, that Maybelline ad is MORONIC!
IT BURNS
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11-19-2011, 08:26 AM
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#91
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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That ad was created over a year ago.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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11-19-2011, 10:24 AM
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#92
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
That ad was created over a year ago.
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How do you know this, Jill? How much Maybeline do you buy, sir?
__________________
I'd rather label myself than have a million other people do it for me. ~ Pathogen
...I've been accused of folly by a fool. ~Antigone
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11-19-2011, 01:02 PM
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#93
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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That's why they added the edit "Note: This “making of” video was shot a year ago but the commercial just started airing last month (often in movie theaters)."
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11-19-2011, 01:25 PM
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#94
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
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FUCK MAYBALENE!
I agree with you Saya. The feminist voice needs to be heard more. Luckily, it's starting to surface a bit.
I'm sick of people accusing us of being utopian and then accusing us of being violent hooligans when one guy decides to throw a tripple A battery at a fully armored cop while the capitalists ACTUALLY go into the middle east and slaughter families with armies and bombs, and guns, and jets, and ships, and missiles. AND WE'RE THE VIOLENT ONES?!
How the fuck can you be lazy and entitled AND be ACTIVELY violent at the same time? Wei're either anarchistic thugs ro lazy hippies. Either accusation is a fucking fallacy and MOTHER FUCKING FUCK MAYBALENE!
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao
"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.
Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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11-19-2011, 05:40 PM
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#95
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharis
There are still a few people hanging in there with Occupy Melbourne, but the cops have now made everyone take down 'structures' (all the cover and shelter, even though it's pissing down lately) and coming around at night to roust people.
(Meanwhile, Catholics harass abortion clinics daily with impunity and Tony Abbott eggs Andrew Bolt on with his "free speech". )
Hopefully numbers rise soon, there's always better attendance in fine weather.
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The way that the councils are using laws (in Australia) to quell the 'Occupy' movement has been interesting, if disturbing, to watch.
In Melbourne they are using a law from the 70's that was passed when the clashes between Right to Life protesters and Right to Choose protesters started becoming more and more intense - this law allows them to fine people for demonstrations that are creating a nuisance (but the law doesn't exactly define what a nuisance is...) It is interesting to note that while there were many many of these fines handed out to Occupy protesters, and literally thousands handed out to Right to Choose protesters, there has never been one single fine given to a Right to Life protester even though there are recorded cases of violence perpetrated by them at protests in Melbourne.
In Sydney they have been using a 'move-on' law that was passed years ago, which was meant to curb youth gangs. It basically allows them to break up groups of three or more people, record their details and give them a warning that they have an hour to leave the area and aren't allowed back for 24 hours.
The other thing that they have been relying on is council ordinance that states that 'structures' (tents, tarps etc) aren't allowed to be built without permits in areas that aren't designated camping grounds - this means that the protesters will state that they are demonstrating legally, and the police will state that they are in fact camping... because they have a tent.
It all shows how even though we believe that we are protected by laws - there was a huge drama here when the move-on powers were given to police, but that was shouted down by people telling us not to be stupid because the police would never misuse a power like that, they would only do it to break up gangs - most of the time we are at risk of being victims of these laws ourselves.
This might be useful for anyone in Australia who finds themselves approached by the police. http://www.criminallaw.com.au/rights...ched_by_police
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11-20-2011, 01:57 AM
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#96
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe
The way that the councils are using laws (in Australia) to quell the 'Occupy' movement has been interesting, if disturbing, to watch.
In Melbourne they are using a law from the 70's that was passed when the clashes between Right to Life protesters and Right to Choose protesters started becoming more and more intense - this law allows them to fine people for demonstrations that are creating a nuisance (but the law doesn't exactly define what a nuisance is...) It is interesting to note that while there were many many of these fines handed out to Occupy protesters, and literally thousands handed out to Right to Choose protesters, there has never been one single fine given to a Right to Life protester even though there are recorded cases of violence perpetrated by them at protests in Melbourne.
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Yes, I'm a bit peeved about that. The Radical Women copped a fine for tying their banner to a pole, and that was technically a "structure" - no, actually, it was an "advertisement".
I spoke to the security guard there and apparently the Right to Life protesters are really out of line when there are no third party witnesses. Also each time police are called, they feign innocence and then keep going.
Anyway the reason I brought that up was that in an article about wanting a protest exclusion zone - "A spokeswoman for the Melbourne City Council said it had no power to move people conducting peaceful protests".
That was in 2010 and the rules have certainly changed for Occupy (see forcible eviction with police brutality), so I see a backflip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe
The other thing that they have been relying on is council ordinance that states that 'structures' (tents, tarps etc) aren't allowed to be built without permits in areas that aren't designated camping grounds - this means that the protesters will state that they are demonstrating legally, and the police will state that they are in fact camping... because they have a tent.
It all shows how even though we believe that we are protected by laws - there was a huge drama here when the move-on powers were given to police, but that was shouted down by people telling us not to be stupid because the police would never misuse a power like that, they would only do it to break up gangs - most of the time we are at risk of being victims of these laws ourselves.
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I know, I'm wondering if swags will help... you know, like sleeping bags but enclosed? Doesn't shelter while they're out of it talking, but it's all I can think.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to help. Camping in a park isn't how I would have chosen, but I do believe the Occupy protesters have a valid concern and they are not the dole-bludgers/fringe movement/hippies/whatever that they're portrayed as.
(The Socialists are heavily involved, which isn't really my bag... I'd rather concentrate on moderating the worst excesses/inequalities rather than try to completely overthrow society... but mostly people are just tired of getting the shitty end of the stick.)
For now I just try to drop in when I can with some food and some books for if they get bored.
It's not much and they are calling for more people to occupy overnight, but I'm wary... there actually have been sexual assaults in other Occupys, and while it's not the fault of the protest - predators do tend to be opportunistic. Nothing to stop random creeps getting involved for their own motives.
A pity though that the fear for safety stops me (maybe other women). And it's fucked how fingers are pointed at the protesters and the cause, when it could happen anywhere a shitbag rapist sees a chance.
As to the laws, very true. "Who watches the watchers?" I've been pretty complacent up until now, but the Australian Government is seriously starting to disturb me.
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11-20-2011, 07:25 PM
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#97
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
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Keep fighting the good fight, Despanan.
I am trying to decide on taking a trip to NY to throw in with your crowd or if it would be better to support the closer occupations here by me.
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11-20-2011, 09:53 PM
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#99
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Unbelievably tragic story, written with a brilliantly ironic voice.
Quote:
Unlike New York and Oakland, the city of Seattle has recently expressed support for occupy protesters. However, this may not include the police, who yesterday took the eminently necessary step of pepper-spraying a tiny octogenarian.
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports that the City Council approved a resolution Monday in support of the protesters' right to free speech. But on Tuesday, marching Occupy protesters clashed with police on bicycles, who pepper-sprayed about twelve of them, including a pregnant woman, a priest, and 84-year-old Dorli Rainey. Seattle police spokesman Jeff Kappel says, "Pepper spray was deployed only against subjects who were either refusing a lawful order to disperse or engaging in assaultive behavior toward officers." But Rainey wrote to The Stranger with a different take...
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Source: http://jezebel.com/dorli-rainey/
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11-20-2011, 10:04 PM
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#100
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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This is one of those things where I'm really really not surprised, but very very angry anyway.
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