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Old 06-17-2008, 07:22 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
You know, this is why I've become disenchanted with the goth subculture.
I don't care when people say it's a phase, or that it's too much emphasis on a musical style, or such.
What pisses me off is its wimpyness. Goth isn't an offshoot of punk so much as punk with its fangs cut out.
A popular 'gothic guide' says that when punk split into Oi! and anarchopunk, that it was gothic rock who maintained the spirit of true punk (the nerve!)
But actually it does have a point. The Sex Pistols, nothing but an alternative marketing plan (no matter how cool, that's what they were) and their precious Sid Vicious certainly have more to do with Siouxsie and the Banshees than Crass.
Countless times emo has been said that indeed it comes from punk but is entirely different and quite a sad evolution for punk. Well, it's exactly the same with gothic rock.
It certainly can't be punk when the term "Corporate Goth" is perfectly acceptable. Where's the relationship with punk when there's no normative hopes for equality and liberty?
Individuality - the one abstract term Goth is supposed to appreciate - has more to do with Victorian capitalism than leftist non-conformism.
Even that article about the boys from the Lancaster case mentioned us as peaceful law-abiding citizens. Certainly I don't want Goth to go back to being associated with sociopaths like Columbine, but what's so fucking alternative about being a perfectly law-abiding citizen that just dresses black?
Maybe some people actually see what I'm complaining as a virtue. That goths are just regular people that look differently and listen to different music. But then what's so punky about that? It's worse than pop-punk; at least those kids are trying to rebel in the only way they were taught to.
Goth becomes nothing but a blankie. The music is not particularly more artsy than other genres, and it's not subversive at all. The look shouts difference, but yet goths can't stop stressing just how alike to 'normal' people they are. Just another part of the status quo fitting in a niche to feel more comfortable when facing life's struggles.
Fine! I'm fucking ranting, so I'll go back to the point of this thread:
I understand the attitude behind those that don't want to change for a job, but I'm going to go with the so-called 'realists' in here.
You're selling yourself, and they're buying you, so you can't complain. And so shall I be when I get a job. Either I will live a fucking awesome life or I'll end up selling my principles and my life for eight dollars an hour. But in both cases at least I won't be lying to myself that I'm choosing to move the same direction as the strings.
So, don't complain about selling your looks; you are already a whore after all.
Maybe I'll just take that big capitalist phallus as far down the back of my throat as I can stomach, and then tear it straight off.
I'm not trying to delude myself into thinking I was already moving in the same direction as the strings, so much as seeing if I can move the puppetmaster's hand, even if just an iota
That said, Jillian: Respect for the words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfing_Rat
Hey other thing you can do is... Be a goth model... But good luck getting that job. Those who manage to make a living at it do very well at it. But you better hope you're at least 6'0, preferably around 6'3. Some of the most famous female goth model such as Scar13, Szardova, Kellie Laplegua are 5'7 or 5'8 so they definitely want a taller guy.
6'4". I'm not bad looking, but I'm not model material. Tooo baaaad!
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Originally Posted by Duckman
I'm not, but that's by choice, not because I refuse to tidy myself up. I'm happy with my situation, apart from the whole court ordered sobriety and lack of love life.
I love you, Duckie. Feel better.
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:04 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
You know, this is why I've become disenchanted with the goth subculture...
So, don't complain about selling your looks; you are already a whore after all.
Yep, I am a prostitute for my paycheck.
So yeah some goths have sold out. But for the rest of us, it is still out there as a dream, a goal to shoot for, independence and the masses be damned.
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:37 AM   #78
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By the way, don't think my calling you a whore is a personal attack. The only reason I'm not in the same position is because I don't have to pay for my tuition. But it pretty much sums up the position of selling your time and body and mind to make ends meet.
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:43 AM   #79
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Yeah, fucking jerks trying to survive! POSEURS!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:31 PM   #80
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I have to say that whoever it was who said that if you get a government job then you can get away with just about anything is quite right, as long as you preform your job well then they will keep you around. Looks do, however, matter a great deal during the interview, after that not so much.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:37 PM   #81
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Yah, I'm going to try and get an internship with the US Embassy in SF, so I'll probably just go with nice black pants and a plain black button up shirt.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
At some point, you need to look yourself in the mirror and realize that what other people did to you does not define you as a person. You and your actions define who you are as a person. It's up to you to be a good person, in spite of all the evil you've faced. In fact, it should be because of the evil you see that it's good you do. Be the change you want in the world. Next time someone tells me that they're an asshole because they've had a bad life, I'm stabbing them in the eye with a spork.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:57 PM   #82
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No, don't, poseur! THAT'S NOT PUNK AT ALL!!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
By the way, don't think my calling you a whore is a personal attack. The only reason I'm not in the same position is because I don't have to pay for my tuition. But it pretty much sums up the position of selling your time and body and mind to make ends meet.
No worries mate, thanks to Omega-Super-666-Sprite-Bubble-Up-Goth I can take just about anything. He makes duckie look like an old lady at afternoon tea. (not a typo)
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:13 PM   #84
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That's 'cuz you want to fuck me and you like old ladies. PERV'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:30 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Great.
No, don't, poseur! THAT'S NOT PUNK AT ALL!!!!!!
;P No, it's called getting a job. After i get the job/internship then I can wear pretty much whatever I want.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
At some point, you need to look yourself in the mirror and realize that what other people did to you does not define you as a person. You and your actions define who you are as a person. It's up to you to be a good person, in spite of all the evil you've faced. In fact, it should be because of the evil you see that it's good you do. Be the change you want in the world. Next time someone tells me that they're an asshole because they've had a bad life, I'm stabbing them in the eye with a spork.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:38 PM   #86
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Yeah, but it's not PUNK, and as we all know, GOFF is derived from PUNK, and jobs aren't PUNK!!! Welfare is punk!! Stealing to survive is punk!!!!!


YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME PUKE!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 06-17-2008, 03:01 PM   #87
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If so, may I offer you this blue jello? It looks fantastic on the way back up!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
At some point, you need to look yourself in the mirror and realize that what other people did to you does not define you as a person. You and your actions define who you are as a person. It's up to you to be a good person, in spite of all the evil you've faced. In fact, it should be because of the evil you see that it's good you do. Be the change you want in the world. Next time someone tells me that they're an asshole because they've had a bad life, I'm stabbing them in the eye with a spork.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:14 PM   #88
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The Colour Green Is Punk!!!!!! You People Know Nothing!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:17 PM   #89
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The whole Goth scene is modernizing. What I mean by that, is all of the sub-cultures are merging together into one unseamly blob. Therefore, green is green.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:24 PM   #90
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Your FACE is green!
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:25 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Great.
...and you like old ladies. PERV'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is true.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #92
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Get a job at a call center. Dress "the part" for the interview, aka fairly mainstream, and then see how it plays out from there. For my interview I wore a nice black skirt, black blouse, subdued makeup, and took out my eyebrow jewelry, but left in my nose stud & earrings. I put my very long hair up into a twisted bun.

I am a Customer Service Rep which basically means I talk on the phone to people about their bills & whatnot. I now get to wear all of my piercings, have my hair any color or style I want, and wear just about anything. The only things I can't wear obviously would be corsets (which I'm not fortunate enough to own anyhow... so expensive!), "offensive" t-shirts, or ripped clothing.

I can still wear a lot of my favorite clothes without violating the dress code, because I don't work face-to-face with the customers. Oh yeah, and I get paid pretty damned well too + awesome benefits.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #93
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I have a job. It's a very sensible job. It's 9-5 for 11k a year (not much, but enough to survive).
I have very unusual hair (not from dye or undercut, just from sheer amount), and have not worn anything but black. I even brought my black bag with cogs on to work. I have had no trouble. This is because I moderate my look a bit when I have to deal with people in a work environment. I got the job because a friend, who also works there, told me about it. He has a massive beard, shaved head, and ear piercings.

This is not for everyone- we can't all just tone it down. But if you don't want to tone it down, you'd better have essential skills or a job in manual labour with minimal customer interaction.
I'm sure Kontan's very annoyed right now. And gods, don't you have any idea how much I wish I could turn up in my normal day-to-day gear? My fishnets and jeans and old army boots? But it doesn't work like that. Maybe someday. But right now, I have to start at the bottom. I'll wear what I want when I'm indispensable.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:04 PM   #94
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It's not that big of a deal, really. Being alternative in any way is about as alternative as golf shirts and comb overs anymore.

EVERYONE has a tattoo, EVERYONE wears black, EVERYONE has some kind of piercing.

It's not as "dangerous" these days as it was back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

The key is, is to not make a big deal about it. I actually commend the "emos" out there for popularizing alternative fashion so much that it's lost all meaning. Seriously. Now, to truly be progressive these days, it has more to do with actions instead of putting on some black clothes.

Honestly, it's not that big of deal anymore. I've seen people work at gas stations with SILVER and PURPLE hair. Gas stations. It's not that big of an issue anymore. Even the people on this forum who support the idea that we can't help but be uniform people because we'll starve if we don't is an old and ridiculous idea.

I can't even begin to tell you how many people that are alternative are selling cars, doing customer service, outsourcing different kinds of data, you name it. Even WAITERS... not waitresses, but even WAITERS are getting away with mohawks in LOTS of restaurants.

These days, people just do not care. There is maybe 1 or 2 out of ever 5 people that would actually make it a big deal, I'm willing to bet.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:47 PM   #95
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Kontan, you seem to live in a very different place to me.
I like luxuries, therefore need a job I can rise in to pay for my luxuries. And these kind of jobs are corporate and have a relatively conservative image.

As it is, I get away with alt-ishness like wearing entirely black, having silver bat stud earrings, a silver bat necklace, and a black bag with cogs and gears on it. But the key is doing it tastefully, wearing the pinstripe jacket instead of the pinstripe halter top, that sort of thing.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:09 PM   #96
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When I worked in a restaurant up until nearly 3 years ago ( 5 1/2 years I was there ) I had to wear a uniform. Black skirt ( trousers were not allowed because the owner was a sexist pig who didn't like to see women in trousers ) white shirt, hideous red bowtie. When I started I hadn't even heard any alternative music or experienced any alternative culture. I looked perfectly "normal" with my blonde hair and little makeup. Then of course alternativeness and eventually goth came knocking, and in that time I dyed my hair black, dyed the ends bright red, had 3 of my 7 tattoos , 2 of which are on my right inner forearm and easily visible, since I had to wear a short sleeved shirt. You would think that elderly posh old couples would be horrifed at this. Not so, they were quite fascinated and eager to see the tattoo when I took off the bandage when it was fully healed ( had to cover it for health and safety of course ) . I wore a lot of eyeliner and so on, and although I couldn't incorporate clothing into my work clothes, I was still able to easily project an alternative or goth vibe.

For interviews I do tone it down, although not for agencies, as they don't give a fuck how you look. It's all factory work anyway so appearance is not important as long as nothing is dangly and can get caught in a machine or trip you over.

At my current job ( Laid off again now though ) I can wear whatever I like. I go to work most days in black jeans and some DIY band shirt . The Sex Gang Children one caused some puzzlement as to it's meaning , as I think anyone who has worn one will have experienced at some point. Then I explained it was a band and all was good. We are allowed posters and so on in our little areas of the factory, and the wall behind the gluer on our machine is plastered with photos , huge posters of motorbikes ( Cory and Dave like superbikes ) pictures of David Beckham, Brad Pitt, Lewis Hamilton, Marco Malandri ect ( Cory and Davina's not mine!!! ) and then, smack bang in the middle of the wall pillar. Is my own poster that I made. Of Goth men and so on, Eldritch, Rozz, Andi Sexgang, Johnny Slut , Tilo Wolff, Guggi and Gavin ect. It disturbs my workmates immensely and they find it hilarious. The managers have no problem at all.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:45 PM   #97
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blue collar work isn't necessarily as bad as some make it out to be eh?

People seem to have this misconception that anyone who works with their hands is automatically not being paid very much. Skilled welders, or electricians can make $25 + per hour easily, plus per diem, depending on the job site. This is for industrial construction)

I know mechanics who make 60-70 thou a year. ( This does take some schooling, but you can still make 30 - 50 thou a year with out it, if you are good.) I know one guy who drives trucks in a mine who made 72,000 dollars last year, plus full benefits and HOUSING. He's only been doing this for 2 and 1/2 years.

true, to break into six figures, you usually have to gain some type of supervisory position, or have hella specialized experience and years on the job, but hey, is that really that much different from the corporate world?

Some blue collar work does require certifications and such, further down the line, but those are things you can get after you are already working in the field, so you know whether or not you are going to like it before spending 2 years plus of your life preparing for something you don't really know squat about.

Entry level is of course much less, but hey, entry level suit and tie work doesn't pay that much either, and you have to dish out for the wardrobe too, can't get away with thrift store t-shirts and cheap jeans there.

Also, for any decent suit and tie job, you usually need at least an associates degree. Two years paying money instead of making it on the job? and getting the training into the bargain? no thank you.

Don't get me wrong, I want to go to college someday, but it is to learn about things I am interested in, not to make money. If people invested the money they spend on their kids college, their children could be living quite comfortably by their thirties, instead of just making ends meet, both working, mountains of debt, etc.

College, while certainly not a bad choice for personal growth and a good "in between" for home and the real world, is in all honesty a lousy financial investment. IMHO.
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(shouts) WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??!!?
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Because some people are dicks. And not everyone else is gay.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:00 PM   #98
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Emerald... You're right about everything. But you got to think of something beside moneys.

If you can be happy with slaving for moneys for rest of your life, that is great. But... Some doesn't exactly like the idea of that too much. I would HATE to be told when I can have my vacation, work on holiday, not being able to make any more than my income, not being able to decide the future for my company, having to suck up with workers I don't like, deal with a asshole hypocrite manager, and the list goes on. Then come home and sit in front of television all night.

So you have to really ask yourself what you really want in life as early as possible and set your mind on your goal. If you want to be able to retire early and have moneys to travel or something then working in a high paying rat race job isn't for you.

However I love the part where you say you want to go to college to learn something you're interested in. Many people fail to realize this! One thing I get SICK of hearing about is people bad mouthing about how college is boring or how they want to rush through it and get a degree. I always tell people no matter what degree I get, I'll still attend college just to take a class or two on subject that interest me such as anthropology, history, etc...
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:17 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldlonewoulf
College, while certainly not a bad choice for personal growth and a good "in between" for home and the real world, is in all honesty a lousy financial investment. IMHO.
Just an fyi: he average university grad makes about $1 million more over the course of their working life than someone who does not go to college so in the long run it does pay off for most people. You should not, get into debt up to your eyeballs to pay for it as the interest will take quite a chunk out of that $1 mill, that being said a few student loans aren't going to really hurt. This isn't to say that everyone should go to college, I know some of my classmates are waisting their/their parent's money and their/their proff's/everyone else's time, just that for those who are willing to take full advantage of it, going to a university is a good investment
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:40 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwater1110
It ends where my job ends. Whether or not I'm wearing nail polish has nothing to do with my capacity for performing said job. Making copies for someone is part of my job; whether I wear my hair the same as the guy next to me is not. In theory, what my boss thinks of my hair is none of his goddamn business. Thanks for reminding me, however, that the real world has little to do with how things actually are. Consider my cushy collegiate bubble burst.
Hey, bubblehead, listen. How you dress at work is every BIT the boss' business. Know why? Because his or her clients will judge you by your apperance. Fucked, but it happens. His priority is to make money. You can't dress in all black and boots at Abercrombie and Fitch, you can't dress in mini skirts and tube tops at a law office, and you can't dress in alternative clothes in a mainstream workplace. I love dressing crazy as much as the next guy. Mohawk, only boots, all the fun stuff. More makeup than a Rocky Horror dress rehersal, but guess what? At work, I'm in a three piece suit with neat hair. Why? Law office. They said I could get away with jeans and a T shirt, but I don't. You have to dress appropriately for the place you work. Not only will your boss make you, but it's a matter realizing that sometimes you have to know when to give a little of yourself up to make sure there's the rest of you alive. Besides, it's only clothing.
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