"Age limit" for clothing? - Page 4

Zabijej · 06-20-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You...do understand how damaging it is when a young girl gets hit on by a grown man, right?
And you do realize that dressing like that encourages it, right?

I'm not saying it should just go unchecked, leaving for the day in a boob tube, miniskirt, and 4 inch heels - but as I said before, I think it's completely reasonable to compromise. Restating: heels are ok as long as the rest is covered from shoulders to knees, miniskirt with a high-neckline shirt and flat shoes; and making clear limits like the skirt has to be fingertip length, necklines no lower than the armpits, etc. I went through this with my parents like a lot of people did, and I wanted to be more cooperative with my mom when she compromised than with my dad when he said no to everything - when my dad said no I just took my clothes to school and changed.

Lolly PopMuzik · 06-21-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

The thing about kids getting into the ghetto thing is first you have rap music - not the end of the world - but it promotes subversive ideas like drugs, crime, violence, the whole bitches-n-hos thing. It seems very appealing and...maverick...to someone who is naive and looking for an identity and empowerment.

Granted, there's a lot of metal and industrial music that seems equally subversive - songs about killing people, processing them in a slaughterhouse, putting them in meat grinders, skullfucking people, necrophilia, etc. - however, with only a handful of exceptions, the artists don't actually do any of that. It's entertainment, it's poetry, it's a metaphor. Cattle Decapitation doesn't cut people up. Carpathian Forest doesn't **** teenage nuns. Combichrist doesn't fistfuck people. The violence in rap is what people have actually done or have witnessed - most HAVE actually dealt drugs, most HAVE actually screwed a hooker, some HAVE actually killed someone due to gang affiliation.

Those songs may exist but fewer and fewer mainstream rap artists are glamorizing those topics. Hell, if anything, they're too busy trying to eclipse Kanye in terms of sound and acclaim these days.

I love it when clueless goits like you try to bring down rap especially when you not only think you have any knowledge in the subject but also sound like Tipper Gore on her Parental Advisory sticker campaign. Worry less about imposing your horrible prejudices and hypocrisy upon your hopefully forever non-existent brood and more about the staggering homophobia in reggae.

And just say no to cyber fashion that sucks and putting Combrichrist on the same level with Nitzer/Einsturzende/Skinny Puppy. Please.

Still Jack · 06-21-2009, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

Sexuality is a natural part of life, and a lot of girls go through a phase where they realise they now have boobs and a butt and try to show it off. If I had a nickle for every time I've heard of someone being told not to leave the house in *that* I would be rich. It's not the end of the world when a 12 year old wears a miniskirt - obviously we're all not down on a street corner somewhere.

The thing about kids getting into the ghetto thing is first you have rap music - not the end of the world - but it promotes subversive ideas like drugs, crime, violence, the whole bitches-n-hos thing. It seems very appealing and...maverick...to someone who is naive and looking for an identity and empowerment.

Granted, there's a lot of metal and industrial music that seems equally subversive - songs about killing people, processing them in a slaughterhouse, putting them in meat grinders, skullfucking people, necrophilia, etc. - however, with only a handful of exceptions, the artists don't actually do any of that. It's entertainment, it's poetry, it's a metaphor. Cattle Decapitation doesn't cut people up. Carpathian Forest doesn't **** teenage nuns. Combichrist doesn't fistfuck people. The violence in rap is what people have actually done or have witnessed - most HAVE actually dealt drugs, most HAVE actually screwed a hooker, some HAVE actually killed someone due to gang affiliation.

You sincerely need a good kicking for possessing that level of ignorance...
Also, I would be interested in knowing what Hip-Hop you've listened to and how much you actually know about the artists in question.

zer0sleep · 06-21-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch

Older people, over the age of 35, are starting to sag and get wrinkly. It is also more difficult to maintain a reasonable weight, so people would prefer they wear "dignified" clothing. Old people are also not supposed to be sexual.

Am I the only person who has a huge problem with this? At 30, I neither sag nor wrinkle. Anywhere. I also doubt "older people" care what others would "prefer" they wear or they PROBABLY wouldn't be goths anyway. And as far as older people not "supposed to be" sexual...grow the fuck up. I mean you've got to be joking.

Zabijej · 06-21-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

Those songs may exist but fewer and fewer mainstream rap artists are glamorizing those topics. Hell, if anything, they're too busy trying to eclipse Kanye in terms of sound and acclaim these days.

I love it when clueless goits like you try to bring down rap especially when you not only think you have any knowledge in the subject but also sound like Tipper Gore on her Parental Advisory sticker campaign. Worry less about imposing your horrible prejudices and hypocrisy upon your hopefully forever non-existent brood and more about the staggering homophobia in reggae.

And just say no to cyber fashion that sucks and putting Combrichrist on the same level with Nitzer/Einsturzende/Skinny Puppy. Please.

Not mainstream, no, but that's like saying all goths still listen to Slipknot, Marilyn Manson, and whatever other bands babybats first enter the subculture through for the rest of forever.

Honestly, I don't care about the "staggering homophobia in Reggae" and considering only myself, rappers can keep making albums and rapping about whatever it is they do as long as they keep it amongst themselves. I'm not going to interfere in other peoples lives in a personal crusade to rid of the world of hate and prejudice. However, just because I don't complain about the *existence* of something doesn't mean I'm ready to embrace it and bring it into my family.

Last I recall, there was no family-influence police revoking the custody of every parent who doesn't approve of their kids getting into gangster rap...

(Skinny Puppy is a better choice, but those were the first lyrics I thought of

)

Catch · 06-21-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zer0sleep

Am I the only person who has a huge problem with this? At 30, I neither sag nor wrinkle. Anywhere. I also doubt "older people" care what others would "prefer" they wear or they PROBABLY wouldn't be goths anyway. And as far as older people not "supposed to be" sexual...grow the fuck up. I mean you've got to be joking.

Well I am over 30 and even in my late twenties people didn't want to see me in a sexual way........

Really, I wore head to toe clothing growing up and that even turned people on. The matter of too much or little clothing and sexual offenders is totally off base. More people should understand that.

Lolly PopMuzik · 06-21-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

Not mainstream, no, but that's like saying all goths still listen to Slipknot, Marilyn Manson, and whatever other bands babybats first enter the subculture through for the rest of forever.

Honestly, I don't care about the "staggering homophobia in Reggae" and considering only myself, rappers can keep making albums and rapping about whatever it is they do as long as they keep it amongst themselves. I'm not going to interfere in other peoples lives in a personal crusade to rid of the world of hate and prejudice. However, just because I don't complain about the *existence* of something doesn't mean I'm ready to embrace it and bring it into my family.

Last I recall, there was no family-influence police revoking the custody of every parent who doesn't approve of their kids getting into gangster rap...

(Skinny Puppy is a better choice, but those were the first lyrics I thought of

)

You really don't get it. What I'm trying to say is not only is it hypocritical to allow your future daughter to dress up like she's ready to do something strange for a little piece of change but disapprove of her dressing "ghetto" (honestly, these days young black kids dress mostly like skaters and scene kids than the archetypal gangster thug artist you fret about) but your ideas about the style and people taking part in it are so horribly bigoted.

You say you have no problem with rap but I don't think you've heard enough of the positive examples to make a concrete idea of what it's really about. Here are some great examples:
Kool Moe Dee
Public Enemy
Boogie Down Productions
Sugarhill Gang
Biz Markie
Run DMC
A Tribe Called Quest
Slick Rick
The Session (last I recall, they were a trio of female rappers around with the Sugarhill Gang)
Monie Love
Queen Latifah
De La Soul
MC Lyte
Nice and Smooth
EPMD
Black Sheep
Beastie Boys (Yes, they're white as snow but Paul's Boutique will blow your mind and they're crude as fuck on License to Ill)
These folks offer the best in storytelling, fun, and great beats. Listen to them and do not come back unless you are dead.

Sinjob · 06-21-2009, 04:59 PM

No offense to either of of you, but the digression here just gets worse and worse.

This argument is really only directed towards self-conscious again women at first. Now it's just becoming a bumblimg empire of useless arguments about the most shallow things.

Moving on...

Zabijej · 06-21-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

... (honestly, these days young black kids dress mostly like skaters and scene kids than the archetypal gangster thug artist you fret about) but your ideas about the style and people taking part in it are so horribly bigoted.

...
Beastie Boys (Yes, they're white as snow but Paul's Boutique will blow your mind and they're crude as fuck on License to Ill)
These folks offer the best in storytelling, fun, and great beats. Listen to them and do not come back unless you are dead.

When did this become about race?

Lolly PopMuzik · 06-21-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

When did this become about race?

When you brought up the word "ghetto" and usually it often means the worst in terms of the black race if it's not referring to something shoddy. More often than not, the first thing that comes to mind in terms of rap, is being black.

Go here: https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...6&postcount=35 and you'll see what I mean.

...Where's Heretic/GJ/Spoon/blkgothgirl around when you need them?

Zabijej · 06-21-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

When you brought up the word "ghetto" and usually it often means the worst in terms of the black race if it's not referring to something shoddy. More often than not, the first thing comes to mind in terms of rap, is being black.

...Where's Heretic/GJ/Spoon/blkgothgirl around when you need them?

I could care less what race the person is making the gangster rap, it's not something I'm going to embrace into a future family, simply because of what it glorifies.

I occasionally listen to rap (mainstream, yes), but I'm of the mind where I can LISTEN to it at face value without getting myself involved in the whole culture surrounding the genre.

Lolly PopMuzik · 06-21-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

I occasionally listen to rap (mainstream, yes), but I'm of the mind where I can LISTEN to it at face value without getting myself involved in the whole culture surrounding the genre.

Most people do these days, especially with ridiculous songs like "Coffee Shop," "I'm In Luv Wit a Stripper," and "Pass the Courvoisier" when they'd normally be trying to copy NWA and 50 Cent. Why not give the folks and today's artists some credit?

...I'm seriously trying to keep this from derailing into the thread I linked and I don't have more examples as I have long since stopped listening to the radio.

Lolly PopMuzik · 06-21-2009, 07:00 PM

It can also be humorous too, just look for "The White Rapper Show" and "Miss Rap Superstar."

Underwater Ophelia · 06-21-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

I could care less what race the person is making the gangster rap, it's not something I'm going to embrace into a future family, simply because of what it glorifies.

I occasionally listen to rap (mainstream, yes), but I'm of the mind where I can LISTEN to it at face value without getting myself involved in the whole culture surrounding the genre.

So you can't embrace drug culture and slappin' hos. I get that.
But you can embrace 12 year old girls dressing to deliberately make men think about them sexually?

Suck my cock.

Godslayer Jillian · 06-21-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

promotes subversive ideas like drugs, crime, violence, the whole bitches-n-hos thing.

Holy shit, this guy is an idiot in more aspects than I thought.
Zabijej, how old are you? I'm just curious.

gothicusmaximus · 06-21-2009, 10:08 PM

Rap is subversive, Jillian. Most of them actually HAVE fucked a hooker. A HOOKER!

Catch · 06-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Rap is subversive, Jillian. Most of them actually HAVE fucked a hooker. A HOOKER!

You keep on clinging to the road GM! That's some kind of ethic becoming bi-sexual or dating fat chicks because they put out for a meal.... classy.

Sinjob · 06-24-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabijej

I could care less what race the person is making the gangster rap, it's not something I'm going to embrace into a future family, simply because of what it glorifies.

Yes I'm sure Bill 'O Reilly would agree with you. I really don't see why someone who thinks as subjectively and close-minded as you would even think of going on this website. You're really no different from the idiots who sit on their ass on each news channel trying to enforce the blind rage of the status quo.

You just happen to dress better. Other than that, you're exactly the same.

Quote:

I occasionally listen to rap (mainstream, yes), but I'm of the mind where I can LISTEN to it at face value without getting myself involved in the whole culture surrounding the genre.

You're just stupid.

Catch · 06-24-2009, 01:19 PM

I couldn't find a pictue. Are you sure he looks better?

Sinjob · 06-24-2009, 02:31 PM

I was (obviously) speaking in general, haha.

Delkaetre · 06-24-2009, 03:38 PM

A few people have talked about dressing up their kids/ grandkids/ kids they hope to have, and how much easier it is for boys than girls.
Given they have the same shape till puberty, when things like breasts and hips become an issue, why should it be easier for one sex than the other to dress up in a certain manner?

I wore boys' jeans and t-shirts when I was little because it was often hard to find girls' clothing that wasn't pink, lilac, or white with little flower and heart prints- Mum still says that it was almost impossible finding anything that wasn't pink for me before the age of abour three, as there was such a strong Pink Is For Girls And Blue Is For Boys thing going on. Wearing boys' clothing meant I could wear blue, and green, and red, and black, and all sorts of colours that weren't pink as I grew up.

Dress your kid in what fits, not what the department store or the Hot Topic Kids section says is appropriate for your child's biological sex.

And even with all that wearing of boys' clothing, now that I'm an adult I can still happily wear jeans, skirts, dresses, waistcoats or anything else that suits me regardless of the gender it was intended for.

On the actual topic of an age limit for clothing- providing that the clothing is not clearly, deliberately and overtly sexual I really don't think it matters what the kid wears. Don't dress them in PVC, Playboy, string bikinis, etc, but an eight year old in shorts or a short skirt and vest top is not a sexual object unless you make it one.
And when they begin to have ideas about what constitutes sexuality and how to dress to appeal to the opposite (or same) sex, then you should sit down and talk to them about their clothing, why people wear what they do, and what clothing can signal to others. If they'd old enough to deliberately wear provocative clothing, they're old enough to understand why they should take care in doing so.

300pockets · 07-20-2009, 04:24 PM

As a minor, I don't choose to buy those types of clothes.

Why?

I can't wear it at home.
I'm not an adult.
The clothes are expensive and I'll wear them out.
The clothes are expensive and I'll grow out of them.
I'm trying to lose weight and using the clothes as a reward for if and when I hit size 2.

I haven't invested a ton of money in goth clothes because I know I'll grow out of them anyways!

Solumina · 07-20-2009, 05:21 PM

What size are you now? Most people would have a rather hard time getting down to a size two, you may want to rethink your goal, then again I have no idea what your body shape is so it could be a good size for you.

300pockets · 07-20-2009, 05:52 PM

I'm a 5 at Hot Topic. I'm a 35B-26 inch waist - 36 inch hips. I have a pair of size 6 Tall jeans from GAP that I fit nicely, but that was before they made their clothes larger, so their 6 is larger now. I'm probably around a 3 there now because I've been working out.

Oh, and I'm 5'1", and an XS in their shirts.

Demonborn · 07-20-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zer0sleep

Am I the only person who has a huge problem with this? At 30, I neither sag nor wrinkle. Anywhere. I also doubt "older people" care what others would "prefer" they wear or they PROBABLY wouldn't be goths anyway. And as far as older people not "supposed to be" sexual...grow the fuck up. I mean you've got to be joking.

Just a little info for a few of you. It was people that are in their early to mid 30's now that really started the Goth revolution imo. There were some before but the bulk of it came from this generation. So slammin them for maintaining that lifestyle is just wrong. And for those that will ask im 33.

DB